there always been talk about that shortening u coil cable will make ur machine go deeper ??

there always been talk about that shortening u coil cable will make ur machine go deeper ?? any1 tested it ?? maybe it will make ur machine respond to targets a bit faster since the signal will get to the control box faster ??http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1607904#msg-1607904Fri, 24 May 2013 03:10:59 -0500 Phorum 5.2.18 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1850875#msg-1850875 Re: there always been talk about that shortening u coil cable will make ur machine go deeper ??http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1850875#msg-1850875
This debate or urban legend always seems to creep up among the Sovereign/Excalibur crowd from time to time. I've been guilty of speculating about it myself in the past and gone back and forth on the potential benefits it might have. So I did a video with some depth comparisons precisely measured with and without a much longer coil cable involved, because I've heard some say in the past that they had the impression after shortening the excessive extra long cable length (meant for hip or chest mounting the Sovereign or Excalibur for land or water hunting) they thought it might have enhanced depth or performance for them.

I wanted to see for myself if there is any evidence for that, because perceptions can be a tricky thing unless you nail down the variables to contrast any differences that might exist (if any) in as precise a manner as possible.

It's also been speculated and kicked around here and there from time to time that not using the meter or using one with it's own power source (some meters for the Sovereign have their own battery) would increase depth due to some meter's that draw on the TX output to the coil to derive their power. In reality the meter is wired in parallel to the coil, so the coil still sees the same level of source voltage regardless of whether the meter is plugged in or not. The power draw of these meters is minuscule anyway, but just the same I wanted to test that as well.

This video might finally have some solid answers as to if there is any evidence to support either of these things one way or the other. At least on the BBS units perhaps in terms of longer coil cables, since they are somewhat unique among detectors because of the pre-amp in the coil where a longer coil cable might not be as much of a issue thanks to the more "robust" signal" signal being sent back to the control box. This is what Minelab says about the pre-amp in the BBS machines.....

In-Coil Signal Booster

RCB (Receive Coil Boost) circuitry greatly amplifies weak target signals, from small and deep targets, inside the search coil, where the signals are received. This has three main advantages over standard techniques of amplification inside the control box:
1.Greater immunity to electrical noise, reducing false signals
2.No loss of signal strength, and faint targets, through the cable
3.Improved detection depth and sensitivity

Here's the pictorial/video I did, and keep in mind I'm "inflicting" and then removing both "burdens" on the machine at the same time for comparison (longer coil cable and meter drawing from the TX output), so if there was to be any potential small measurable benefit from either, we should see that here.....

http://youtu.be/1CRxPoJ6O7o

But yea, the way I look at things is if it can't hurt and might help, like shortening the cable, then what's the harm of rubbing that rabbit's foot? :biggrin: I'm so particular about things that I run the coil cable straight up the shaft to get it as far away from the coil as fast as possible, and even flip the snap head shaft adjustment pin upside down so the bottom of the "V" is pointing away from the coil. Way I look at it if it can't hurt then what's the harm of being a little "superstitious"? Who knows, a bunch of little things with zero impact by themselves, might end up adding up to something that can have measurable results in the right rare situation? I even put several extra velcro loops on the shaft to secure the cable, so as to insure it won't move in some small way and be seen by the coil.]]> Critterhunter Modifications ForumThu, 31 Jan 2013 13:04:12 -0600 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1715636#msg-1715636 Re: there always been talk about that shortening u coil cable will make ur machine go deeper ??http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1715636#msg-1715636

Quote
Ism
If you think resistance, inductance and capacitance dont matter, read the coils forum at Geotech.

They matter in the right place, but a few inches on the coil cable makes no difference.]]> Hobo lobo Modifications ForumMon, 04 Jun 2012 17:37:30 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1708812#msg-1708812 Re: there always been talk about that shortening u coil cable will make ur machine go deeper ??http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1708812#msg-1708812 Ism Modifications ForumSat, 26 May 2012 04:26:50 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1708613#msg-1708613 :lol::lol:Re: there always been talk about that shortening u coil cable will make ur machine go deeper ??http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1708613#msg-1708613 Hobo lobo Modifications ForumFri, 25 May 2012 19:48:24 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1707641#msg-1707641 Re: there always been talk about that shortening u coil cable will make ur machine go deeper ??http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1707641#msg-1707641 Critterhunter Modifications ForumThu, 24 May 2012 10:42:09 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1707419#msg-1707419 Re: there always been talk about that shortening u coil cable will make ur machine go deeper ??http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1707419#msg-1707419John]]> JohninNC Modifications ForumWed, 23 May 2012 22:20:00 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1707013#msg-1707013 Re: there always been talk about that shortening u coil cable will make ur machine go deeper ??http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1707013#msg-1707013

Quote
Ism
If it doesn't make a difference, why do engineers now cram detector circuitry in the coil?

That's an excellent point. Unique to the Xcal/Sov models (I only know of one other detector that does this), they have a pre-amp circuit in the coil so it can amplify the very week RX coil received target signal right at the source....Before it has a chance to pick up EMI and other distortions while traveling up the coil cable to the control box. Once it reaches the box the signal is then further amplified by your sensitivity setting. Too high a sensitivity setting means you are amplifying too much noise (EMI) or other distortions in the signal (even ground "glare" to an extent from minerals in the soil), and thus you get an unstable machine. That's why there is some merit to amplying the signal inside the coil at first before these kinds of distortions contaminate it, and also so that the signal is strong enough to be more inmune to picking up these distortions as it travels up the coil cable.

So, yes...I would agree that ideally the coil cable should be as short as possible to both avoid EMI, inductive resistance, or just plain old resistance in the circuit because of a longer wire it has to travel up...And also resistance to the power being applied down the coil cable to the TX winding (transmitter coil)...Which *might* get you a slightly stronger/deeper field as a result.]]> Critterhunter Modifications ForumWed, 23 May 2012 11:50:01 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1706890#msg-1706890 Re: there always been talk about that shortening u coil cable will make ur machine go deeper ??http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1706890#msg-1706890

Quote
JohninNC
For there to be any improvement with a shorter cable, the cable would have to exert some sort of lose or slow down of the signal from the coil to the machine. Most cables I've dealt with are twin co-axual or have a shield and the signal wire is large enough for there to not be any deprivation of the signal. I would expect the shorter or longer cable to make no difference at all.
John

Try using different metal wires like , platinum or gold. After all, the ARE better conductor's of electricity......nge]]> nge Modifications ForumWed, 23 May 2012 08:24:30 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1706674#msg-1706674 Re: there always been talk about that shortening u coil cable will make ur machine go deeper ??http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1706674#msg-1706674
If the cable isn't shielded the long cable acts as an antenna for RFI. Any amateur radio operator will even make the ground wire on his set as short as possible because the extra wire can induce stray EMI into the radio set "and thats a ground wire". In addition, if the cable wrapped around the shaft it becomes an inductor which resists current change. The more wraps the greater the inductance ergo a greater resistance to current change. It also makes for a better antenna similar to a ferrite wound coil. Its minimal to be sure, but its there. In a noisy environment it can make enough of a difference to be noticable. Single frequency detectors might not be affected as much as a multi-frequency detector like the Minelab. Those that believe it can improve performance are not talking about speed of light, but about induced noise and we all know that affects depth and performance.

If it doesn't make a difference, why do engineers now cram detector circuitry in the coil?]]> Ism Modifications ForumTue, 22 May 2012 22:39:47 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1706229#msg-1706229 Re: there always been talk about that shortening u coil cable will make ur machine go deeper ??http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1706229#msg-1706229 Critterhunter Modifications ForumTue, 22 May 2012 11:44:31 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1706089#msg-1706089 Re: there always been talk about that shortening u coil cable will make ur machine go deeper ??http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1706089#msg-1706089 otlew Modifications ForumTue, 22 May 2012 06:35:50 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1645961#msg-1645961 Re: there always been talk about that shortening u coil cable will make ur machine go deeper ??http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1645961#msg-1645961
Whether any of the above two factors are big enough to make any kind of impact on performance is anybody's guess (probably not). I do, however, remember reading about a guy who did repairs on Excals and he would shorten the cables on them, claiming it improved performance. Whether that is true or not I don't know.]]> Critterhunter Modifications ForumSat, 25 Feb 2012 10:41:20 -0600 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1644041#msg-1644041 Re: there always been talk about that shortening u coil cable will make ur machine go deeper ??http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1644041#msg-1644041 khouse Modifications ForumWed, 22 Feb 2012 05:07:08 -0600 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1644019#msg-1644019 Re: there always been talk about that shortening u coil cable will make ur machine go deeper ??http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1644019#msg-1644019
here's some facts to ponder

electricity flows at close to the speed of light in copper wire. making coils feeder wire shorter will shorten the distance of travel but the time saved is so short it's irrelevant (picoseconds or smaller)

So no, it won't make a damn bit of difference. But if it makes you feel better why worry about facts?

Now what it might do is allow you to void your warranty, introduce a faulty or intermittant connection, or simply ruin your machine.

Does not seem to be a very good idea...]]> edjcox Modifications ForumWed, 22 Feb 2012 02:40:36 -0600 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1643563#msg-1643563 Re: there always been talk about that shortening u coil cable will make ur machine go deeper ??http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1643563#msg-1643563 Lineweed Modifications ForumTue, 21 Feb 2012 14:48:26 -0600 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1609444#msg-1609444 Re: there always been talk about that shortening u coil cable will make ur machine go deeper ??http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1609444#msg-1609444 fowlercharles Modifications ForumFri, 30 Dec 2011 21:24:07 -0600 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1608645#msg-1608645 Re: there always been talk about that shortening u coil cable will make ur machine go deeper ??http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1608645#msg-1608645John]]> JohninNC Modifications ForumThu, 29 Dec 2011 17:35:46 -0600 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1607950#msg-1607950 Re: there always been talk about that shortening u coil cable will make ur machine go deeper ??http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1607950#msg-1607950 tomcatpl Modifications ForumWed, 28 Dec 2011 10:49:48 -0600 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1607916#msg-1607916 Try shortening the cable to the headphones so you can hear things quicker!:rofl:N/Thttp://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1607916#msg-1607916(This message does not contain any text.)
]]> mudpuppy Modifications ForumWed, 28 Dec 2011 09:03:18 -0600 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1607914#msg-1607914 Re: there always been talk about that shortening u coil cable will make ur machine go deeper ??http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1607914#msg-1607914 OldBeechnut Modifications ForumWed, 28 Dec 2011 08:57:10 -0600 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1607904#msg-1607904 there always been talk about that shortening u coil cable will make ur machine go deeper ??http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1607904,1607904#msg-1607904 tomcatpl Modifications ForumWed, 28 Dec 2011 08:33:21 -0600