Find's Treasure Forums - Modifications Forum A modification forum for people that have either wanted to or have already modified their metal detectors original setup and want to share.http://www.findmall.com/list.php?22Wed, 08 Sep 2010 07:18:15 -0500 Phorum 5.2-dev http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1289672,1289672#msg-1289672 pin configuration on a 10x12 sef coil neededhttp://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1289672,1289672#msg-1289672i am using a 10x12 sef coil on my xp goldmaxx power

the coil cable is slightly shorter than the standard xp coil cable,so this hinders my normal sweep arc

i want to make an extension cable but need to know the pin configurations

i don`t want to open up my sef plug due to warranty conditions (just bought it)

has anyone done this themselves or knows what the pin configurations are please

many thanks

mike]]> hoarder Modifications ForumWed, 08 Sep 2010 03:59:07 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1141218,1288543#msg-1288543 Re: Sovereign GT Modshttp://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1141218,1288543#msg-1288543
I weighed the modded battery packs to see how much saved in oz/grams

GT
Stock rechargable battery 10.0oz/283g
alkaline pack with alkalines in 9.6oz/272g
Modded alkaline pod with lipo 6.3oz/178g

XS2apro
Stock rechargable 7.25oz/206g
1450ma lipo 3.45oz/98g]]> kered Modifications ForumMon, 06 Sep 2010 12:52:35 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1230451,1288516#msg-1288516 Re: XS2aPro battery modhttp://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1230451,1288516#msg-1288516
GT
Stock rechargable battery 10.00oz/283g
alkaline pack with alkalines in 9.60oz/272g
Modded alkaline pod with lipo 6.3oz/178g

XS2apro
Stock rechargable 7.25oz/206g
1450ma lipo 3.45oz/98g]]> kered Modifications ForumMon, 06 Sep 2010 12:09:22 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1275472,1288506#msg-1288506 Re: My ideas for a new Excalibur design.http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1275472,1288506#msg-1288506 kered Modifications ForumMon, 06 Sep 2010 11:42:40 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1275472,1288031#msg-1288031 Re: My ideas for a new Excalibur design.http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1275472,1288031#msg-1288031 erikk Modifications ForumSun, 05 Sep 2010 16:01:42 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1141218,1287396#msg-1287396 Re: Sovereign GT Modshttp://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1141218,1287396#msg-1287396 tractorman Modifications ForumSat, 04 Sep 2010 10:09:06 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1260331,1287368#msg-1287368 Re: Making a Clevis for your Lower Rod and Searchcoilhttp://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1260331,1287368#msg-1287368 tractorman Modifications ForumSat, 04 Sep 2010 09:28:41 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1264099,1287361#msg-1287361 Re: Here's a push button mod I did for a guy in Miami.http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1264099,1287361#msg-1287361 tractorman Modifications ForumSat, 04 Sep 2010 09:18:45 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,433512,1287236#msg-1287236 Re: Ace 250 trigger pinpoint mod and 250/150 stand modhttp://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,433512,1287236#msg-1287236The picture is one a fellow electronic tinkerer sent me. He assured me that these contacts were the ones he used on his switch mod. I never tested it. I guess I should have. I felt this would be easier to perform so I posted the picture. My personal mod was opening up the switch. Scraping off the graphite on the contacts and soldering the wires there. This may be frightening to do for some? But it now looks like it may be the only way... I'm sorry for anyone that had tried to perform the mod using the incorrect points in the picture.]]> khouse Modifications ForumFri, 03 Sep 2010 23:10:30 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,433512,1287222#msg-1287222 Re: Ace 250 trigger pinpoint mod and 250/150 stand modhttp://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,433512,1287222#msg-1287222 Joe B Modifications ForumFri, 03 Sep 2010 22:32:28 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,433512,1287203#msg-1287203 Re: Ace 250 trigger pinpoint mod and 250/150 stand modhttp://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,433512,1287203#msg-1287203 khouse Modifications ForumFri, 03 Sep 2010 21:53:17 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,433512,1287202#msg-1287202 Re: Ace 250 trigger pinpoint mod and 250/150 stand modhttp://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,433512,1287202#msg-1287202 Dave-IL Modifications ForumFri, 03 Sep 2010 21:49:10 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1284873,1286999#msg-1286999 Re: Headphone jack mod for ACE 250http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1284873,1286999#msg-1286999 dld Modifications ForumFri, 03 Sep 2010 17:14:41 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1258994,1286975#msg-1286975 Re: Anyone running coil cable outside e trac shaft.http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1258994,1286975#msg-1286975 utahshovelhead Modifications ForumFri, 03 Sep 2010 16:46:48 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1230451,1286749#msg-1286749 Re: XS2aPro battery modhttp://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1230451,1286749#msg-1286749
The safest thing to do with a battery holder like this (regardless of if it's using lipos, nimhs, nicads, or even regular batteries) is to always remove the battery if the holder isn't going to be on the machine. Any battery that gets shorted via those exposed terminals will pose a fire risk. The stock rechargeable obviously doesn't allow easy removal of the nimhs or nicads so I keep that pack in a plastic bag.

For the most part all my batteries get thrown into a metal case with the inside painted to avoid shorts, and then that case is put in the refrigerator. The case is divided into chambers using drywall (doesn't catch on fire) so that if one battery goes nuclear it won't take the others with it. Lipos are most happy stored cold like that but even happier when put to a sleep charge using that function on this charger. If I don't plan to use a lipo for weeks I'll put it to sleep. Storing nimhs/nicads in the refrigerator is better for them as well. If anything the worst thing you can do to any battery type is let it bake in the heat or get frozen if stored somewhere like in the garage. If I'm out on a hunt I won't keep my spare battery in the car if it's real hot outside. Better to carry it in your pocket (no keys!) or at least put it somewhere in the shade outside.

Once again, great job. Had I known that pack would fit I would have bought those instead of my 750s, but just the same I get plenty of run time on these.]]> Critterhunter Modifications ForumFri, 03 Sep 2010 10:02:05 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1230451,1286618#msg-1286618 Re: XS2aPro battery modhttp://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1230451,1286618#msg-1286618
Quote
UK Brian

...........................

One other consideration is that some airlines will not allow metal detectors to be transported with lipo's installed and then you have to have an approved carrying pack to store the batteries in. One of the reasons that Whites are not using lipo's in the TDI though Kered said they were. Whites asked me what would make me buy the TDI and I said a drop in weight (the chest mount is not very satisfactory) and the same range and types of adjustments as on Erics GS5c from which the TDI was developed. Lipo's had been rejected as they had enough problems with the paperwork and safety aspects of using lithium cells. Before anyone starts casting doubts on this either ring Whites U.K. or Todd Marshall at Whites U.S.

Regards Brian

Just reading back over my post you refered to, i said
quote
"both Whites(tdi pro) and Minelab(gpx) are now using lipos, all be it li-ion at the moment, they put on special connectors, ireversable,....."

and you reply
"Whites use lithium ion where the electrolyte is held in an organic solvent. Lipo, LiPO, the PO is the clue, uses a solid polymer such as polyacrylonitrile (might have spelt that wrong). Part of the weight saving on the Lipo's is because they don't need the metal case of the original lithium batteries to compress the batteries contents.

Just e-mail Todd Marshall at Whites in the U.S. and ask !"

Errr thats what i said didn't I, although maybe not as detailed but li-ion is lithium-ion and is also refered to as Lipo,Lipoly, lion etc
Whites asked you? ok, It also seams that they took no notice. Name dropping doesn't work with me

So you see Brian you are looking for an argument where there is none, sorry
For me case closed]]> kered Modifications ForumFri, 03 Sep 2010 01:54:47 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1230451,1286601#msg-1286601 Re: XS2aPro battery modhttp://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1230451,1286601#msg-1286601
Old habits die hard for some and progress is for the youngens. Most in europe still use the S shaft on the Sovereign and excalibur as an example.

I'll weigh the different battery setups when i get a mo, got some detecting to do]]> kered Modifications ForumFri, 03 Sep 2010 00:05:40 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1284873,1286510#msg-1286510 You're welcome! Returned your PM :thumbup:N/Thttp://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1284873,1286510#msg-1286510(This message does not contain any text.)
]]> BusDigger Modifications ForumThu, 02 Sep 2010 21:07:21 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1230451,1286327#msg-1286327 Re: XS2aPro battery modhttp://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1230451,1286327#msg-1286327
I'm sure you already pointed it out but for those interested the Sovereign's low battery alarm should sound off well before you hit the 9V max discharge of a lipo. Draining a lipo past 9V could ruin the pack. My GT sounds off at about 10.5V and I think older Sovereigns at around 9.6V or so, so there should be no risk so long as you remove the pack when the low battery alarm hits.

Kered- How heavy does that pack feel to you compared to 8 normal AAs? I would suspect it should still be a good bit lighter. If anything it's got to be about 1/4th or 1/5th the weight of the stock rechargeable pack. I know mine is at least the much lighter or more than that brick. If you've got a scale I'd sure like to see a few pics of the various packs and 8 AA non-rechargeables being weighed.

Almost forgot- By now you should be missing a hand or two according to what the press wants us to all believe about lipos. They make it sound like if you just look at them the wrong way they'll catch on fire or blow up.]]> Critterhunter Modifications ForumThu, 02 Sep 2010 15:36:28 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1143702,1286323#msg-1286323 Re: Extra handle for lifting Water Scoop, anyone know where to get?http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1143702,1286323#msg-1286323bsg01@att.net

Our Stout's Backsaver Grips carry a warranty against normal breakage, so if you email me a photo, I can replace it for you. My website is www.backsavergrip.com

Thanks,
Bob Franklin
Backsaver Grip, LLC.]]> mbsusa Modifications ForumThu, 02 Sep 2010 15:27:06 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1230451,1286277#msg-1286277 Re: XS2aPro battery modhttp://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1230451,1286277#msg-1286277
The XS battery mod having worked so well i decided to check out the alkaline pack that came with the detector to see if the same lipo would fit

Ok for size, width and length

Depth too



The first thing i did was take out the curves that are to stop the alkalines from moving within the pack, both lines down the middle and also at both sides of the pack near the springs
Its very important that you make sure all is smooth and nothing is left that may punture the battery

I took them out using a very sharp wood chisel and dremel.
I also had to make a groove for the wires to pass from the front bay to the battery bay(used the soldering iron)
I soldered first the male part of the dean plug to a generous piece of wire on both contacts and sealed with heatshrink, then puting the conector in place and cut the ends at the required length and soldering to the already available solder joints at either side. I did this rather than cutting into the original wire so it can be undone, also the original wires are very fine to splice and could be cut by mistake
All in place


Next i had to cut the small bit of plastic that holds the thermister and circuit board (as the alkaline pack is made in the same mould as the rechargable) so that if i decide to use alkalines or rechargables the conector will fit in the space out of the way of the cells


All that is left now is to connect the battery and check connections with a meter to make sure they are good and then put on the top


Here you can see that there is plenty of clearence between the top and the battery so as not to crush the battery in any way, at the closest spot between 1 and 2 mm gap




I think that before using this setup i will place a piece of thin high density foam in the centre of the top to act as packing and stop any movement, this together with the foam at the bottom thats under the battery orientation drawing will sufice, also maybe a thin strip of plastic across the springs at either side to prevent them from doing any damage to the ends of the battery.

As pointed out by Critterhunter i will need to find some form of covering up the terminals of the case when not in use so as not to short out if they happen to come in contact with each other via a piece of metal, ie keys in pockets, knife etc

Hope you like it
]]> kered Modifications ForumThu, 02 Sep 2010 14:12:44 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1230451,1286226#msg-1286226 Re: XS2aPro battery modhttp://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1230451,1286226#msg-1286226
Quote
UK Brian
Who mentioned Hobby City ? The consumer advice was to ensure safety you would be best buying from a business that had, I think they said "bricks and cement" presence as well as an online one.

Re RC groups who you seem to place so much trust. Its rcmodelreviews.com and rcgroups.com that have most of the current lipo information that I quoted including "The move is Australia Post's response to a decision by the International Civil Aviation Organisation to enact more stringent controls on lipo's because of their reclassification as "dangerous goods".

I've had my detectors checked for batteries on the last two over sea's trips I've made. If you want to detect within a few miles of your home fine but many do travel to other continents and will need to be prepared to remove the batteries and carry them in what that particular airline considers a safe manner.

Don't bring mobile phones into the equation because Yahoo as its main report only two weeks back reported the first death caused by a phone in use but not connected to the mains. All other deaths and injuries were when the phone was being used as it was being charged.

I'll say it again- Most of the horror stories using lipos are from their initial popularity (came down in price enough) 6 or 7 years ago when lipo chargers did not have cell balancing ability. That or safety features such as not allowing you to charge the pack unless the cell count matches the read voltage when the initial charge is started. Just about every lipo charger these days will not allow a pack to be charged unless it's voltage matches the parameters of the user selected cell count.

Most lipos back then didn't even have a balance plug on them even if you did have some of the first chargers that featured this ability. My first lipo charger didn't and neither did my first few lipos. Later, when lipos started coming with balance plugs I bought an accessory called a "Blinkey" that would plug into the lipo's balance plug and draw down the voltage of any cell that tried to go above 4.2V while charging, as well as balanced the cells for as even a charge across the 3 cells as possible even after the charge process had stopped. That was important to keep the 3 cells pretty much even with each other and thus lesson the chance of one dipping below 3V when the ESC on the plane is only looking for a 9V total pack voltage when it alerts you to LVC (motor will shut off). One cell dipping below 3V doesn't mean a fire risk, it just means you might possibly be destroying the capacity or amp ability of the pack. I've recovered a few lipos that were as low as 5V in total pack voltage by giving them a gentle charge for a few minutes on a nimh or nicad charger at well below 1 amp.

Back to the point- The main fire risk from lipos is overcharging, and as I said before that was a real potential problem lacking a balance plug. Total cell voltage when fully charged is 4.2V. Two of those cells might be only 3.5V total in voltage and as a result the charger would over charge the third as it was only monitoring total pack voltage to say equal 12.6V when the charge is complete. These days each individual cell is monitored via the balance plug (a parallel connection) so that each cell's voltage can be seen separately and the charging process stopped for each on their own as they peaked to 4.2 volts. As a result of the above two features in lipo chargers these days fires are almost unheard of. The only real potential fire risk that charging still poses is if the user can select the charge rate on some chargers and goes above 1C (about a 1 hour charge). Even still, some lipos can be charged at 2C and I think even 5C these days, but who can't wait an hour or less anyway?

As a side note, in the above respects lipos are safer than nimhs/nicads. Most nimh/nicad packs don't have the ability to monitor individual cell voltage. The risk of a few cells being drastically overcharged while others remain under charged is very real. Also, the way a lipo charger monitors for the charge being complete is much more "safe" and less error prone than with nimhs/nicads. Nimh/nicad peak detection is based on a m/v setting, and even if the user can't alter this number on a charger there is still more risk at missing peak for those cells than a lipo by virtue of the fact that a lipo's peak is based on target voltage. Much easier for a charger to read and detect that. Once cell voltage reaches 4.2V per cell the charger will simply lower the charging amps to see if the voltage holds. As it stays closer to 4.2V the charging amps continues to fall until that voltage is held without additional help from the charger.

Beyond over charging, which as explained is a virtual non-risk these days, the only other potential fire risk is if you were to puncture a cell or short the pack. The same can be said for any other battery. I've made custom nimh/nicad packs and let me tell you they will turn the solder tab to a nice cherry red hot color when shorted for even a split second. By way of how nimh/nicads are constructed (8 cells in this instance) there is far more potential to have one of those packs short on you in the field compared to a lipo. I've seen nimhs short in the field that other people were charging just because they overcharged them. The heat generated starts to melt the heat shrink, solder tabs move, insulator buttons burn, resulting then into a runaway short where things get worse from there. The way lipos are constructed doesn't make them as prone to shorting, and a lipo should never get hot during charging or use. The only risk there is if somebody tries to draw too many amps from the lipo and then it may get hot.

Puncturing a lipo is I'd say the biggest risk these days, but that's not a safe thing to do with any battery. Some tweaks in lipo chemistry such as I think A123 cells (first introduced in power tools but now finding their way into RC) are no longer a risk in that respect. Even if punctured they won't pose a fire risk. Some of these new lipo variations also have other advantages such as being able to be drained dead without damage, or at least to lower cell voltages than your average lipo.

As for the word "lipo", most people use that as slang to refer to any variations of that technology. Lithium Ion packs might be called "LION" in slang but I've heard just as many called "lipos". Same with them being used in other devices. Lipo is a general word to refer to these newer battery chemistry's.

Most of the current hysteria over lipo fire risks is derived from WAY back in the day 5 or 6 years ago when all these things (chargers, safeties, balance plugs, tweaks in chemistry) were being sorted out. Urban legends die hard, but I still say they pose no more risk than anything else in life. Treated properly they are very safe, and you reap so much more in benefits from them (higher power ability, lighter, longer run times, good shelf charge life). I don't treat my nimhs or nicads with any less respect. They along with the lipos get places in the middle of a cement floor when charging/discharging, and are placed in a metal box (painted on the inside to avoid shorts) when being stored. To use the gas analogy, you don't store a gas container somewhere unsafe, just as you don't fill it up near flames. Same kind of simple precautions that lipos or any rechargeable should be treated with.

Onto flight risks- I still say most of that is based on media hype and the early days of lipos. I could be wrong but I always heard that the reason why lipos had special precautions on planes was due to the fact that some cargo holds aren't pressurized, which could cause a lipo to bloat and expand due to not having a hard outer shell. A bloated lipo can cause cells to short because of the physical movement of the cells pushing away from each other. That's always what I heard but I'm sure it's more about the hype than anything else.

Final note while I'm thinking of it- The weight saving abilities of lipos is NOT primarily due to lacking a metal outer case. The reason why they weigh so much less is more due to the higher power to weight density of the internal energy producing materials. Next time you are in a store pick up an 8 pack of Energizer Lithiums in your hand. They'll feel roughly 1/3rd the weight or so of 8 normal AAs, yet they are built like any other conventional battery. The outer casing is only part of it, and some lipos such as these and A123 cells do have a hard outer shell.]]> Critterhunter Modifications ForumThu, 02 Sep 2010 13:09:38 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1230451,1286197#msg-1286197 Re: XS2aPro battery modhttp://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1230451,1286197#msg-1286197
It looks like you soldered directly to the solder points where the original holder wires connect. I was going to do that but it's more hassle than just splicing into the existing wires. I used an exacto knife to take off some insulation from them both and then soldered my male JST to that. The two wires will lift out of the holder for easier access to splice and solder to. It looks like you also did what I did- cut a notch into the plastic that divides the two chambers so the battery plug can route into the battery chamber. Again, VERY nice job...And that lipo probably is still only 1/4th or 1/3rd the weight of using the regular rechargeable pack and probably a good bit lighter than using 8 regular AAs as well.

The only precaution I'll mention is to make sure the exposed battery contacts on the outside of the holder are protected in some way from potential shorts when the holder is just sitting around the house. Shorting those even other batteries other than lipos would still pose a fire risk. Put the holder in a plastic zip lock bag or something if you've got it off the detector and a battery is still in it. I know I almost shorted mine a few times when sitting the pack against something like a metal tool box before I noticed what might happen. Better yet, a tiny 1 amp fuse could be installed in series with either the positive or negative wires and will quickly blow if the contacts are shorted.

Awesome job!]]> Critterhunter Modifications ForumThu, 02 Sep 2010 12:15:06 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1230451,1286164#msg-1286164 Re: XS2aPro battery modhttp://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1230451,1286164#msg-1286164 kered Modifications ForumThu, 02 Sep 2010 10:52:40 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1284873,1286059#msg-1286059 Re: Look down about a couple dozen posts :thumbup:http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1284873,1286059#msg-1286059 wheath22 Modifications ForumThu, 02 Sep 2010 07:00:09 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1230451,1286025#msg-1286025 Especially for those who don't know their batteries.http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1230451,1286025#msg-1286025
Just e-mail Todd Marshall at Whites in the U.S. and ask !]]> UK Brian Modifications ForumThu, 02 Sep 2010 03:10:50 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1230451,1286024#msg-1286024 Re: XS2aPro battery modhttp://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1230451,1286024#msg-1286024
Re RC groups who you seem to place so much trust. Its rcmodelreviews.com and rcgroups.com that have most of the current lipo information that I quoted including "The move is Australia Post's response to a decision by the International Civil Aviation Organisation to enact more stringent controls on lipo's because of their reclassification as "dangerous goods".

I've had my detectors checked for batteries on the last two oversea's trips I've made. If you want to detect within a few miles of your home fine but many do travel to other continents and will need to be prepared to remove the batteries and carry them in what that particular airline considers a safe manner.

Don't bring mobile phones into the equation because Yahoo as its main report only two weeks back reported the first death caused by a phone in use but not connected to the mains. All other deaths and injuries were when the phone was being used as it was being charged.]]> UK Brian Modifications ForumThu, 02 Sep 2010 02:50:30 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1230451,1285713#msg-1285713 Re: XS2aPro battery modhttp://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1230451,1285713#msg-1285713Nice job .....Tighter than a crabs ........you get my point ....Thanks for sharing ...Jim

Does the battery box cover slide over fairly easily ? ....Thanks, Jim]]> synthnut Modifications ForumWed, 01 Sep 2010 17:23:26 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1284873,1285709#msg-1285709 Look down about a couple dozen posts :thumbup:http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1284873,1285709#msg-1285709http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1272740]]> BusDigger Modifications ForumWed, 01 Sep 2010 17:20:27 -0500 http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1230451,1285660#msg-1285660 Re: XS2aPro battery modhttp://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1230451,1285660#msg-1285660"One other consideration is that some airlines will not allow metal detectors to be transported with lipo's installed and then you have to have an approved carrying pack to store the batteries in. One of the reasons that Whites are not using lipo's in the TDI though Kered said they were. "

Especially for you Brian

Two powerful 14.4 Volt Lithium-Ion Rechargeable Battery Packs included.
Direct from the whites website page for the tdi, if thier page is wrong then so am i as its where i got my info from(Direct from the Horses mouth sort of thing)

http://whites.co.uk/tdi.html

Also check out the TDI forum here on findmall, some remarks on the lipo battery charger included to charge the lipo batteries included:huh:

And for you Critter, i modded the GT alkaline pack



more picks to follow of the process
]]> kered Modifications ForumWed, 01 Sep 2010 16:05:43 -0500