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Re: Depth issues...
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: May 18, 2011 10:33PM
Ohio Fred, and other readers..

I stated earlier that I THOUGHT that raising sensitivity actually increased "transmit power," per something I read in Andy Sabisch's book. However, in checking it out with NASA Tom Dankowski, he is almost certain that indeed, sensitivity only deals with the RECEIVED signal, not the transmitted signal. So, Fred, you were right, apparently. Sensitivity, it appears, only "amplifies" the received signal -- making weaker signals louder/more pronounced...

I am surprised, as the machine seems to behave AS IF transmit power is increased with increasing sensitivity (IMO)...

Steve



Minelab Explorer SE Pro, Fisher Gold Bug Pro (DP)
Garrett ProPointer
Lesche 38D "King of Spades"

Norman, OK

Re: Depth issues...:thumbup:Thanks that is a great help.N/T
Posted by: ohio fred
Date: May 20, 2011 09:15AM

(This message does not contain any text.)


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Re: Depth issues...
Posted by: mickfin
Date: May 20, 2011 01:38PM
Thanks Sgos66 for starting this post, Iv read over 1/2 of this thread, And thanks Bryce-IL 4R your Info on Nulling N your setings, sgos66 rember?? the old
analog units??? Think of the smart find as one???? You cant see it jump around so much and it wont Freek you out???
Thanks Bryce im a newbi to this SE also but i know that much, Thanks , Mickfin



Keep your coil flat on the ground N the shiny side up, Get ER Done N Have some Funnn,

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Los Banos California,

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Re: Depth issues...
Posted by: TURNMASTER
Date: May 27, 2011 05:12PM
I have been running semi-auto 26 and gain 8 or 9 I will modify to manual 26 and play with the manual sensitivity a bit and move the gain to 10.

The old trashed out house I have been hunting has produced some good coins (1919 S SLQ). Some of the deeper coins have been in the 4 to 5 inch range and dated 1900 and 1918. But, there are areas where I have been able to get squat, areas where there is significant turf/soil build up I have been able to get only shallower clad. Now my theory is that semi auto sensitivity is cutting the power back because of all the trash and iron.

Thanks for the great thread. I will post with results, on ground previously covered.

Jeff



TURNMASTER
Does "Just my two cents" have the same meaning on a treasure hunters forum?
X-Terra 705 & AT Pro

Oldest coin; 1895 Indian Head Penny

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Re: Depth issues...
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: May 27, 2011 07:22PM
Great, Turnmaster -- looking forward to the results from what sounds like a great location to hunt.

I will tell you one thing though -- if your trash is shallow iron, then you may not get much more depth by adjusting sensitivity. Shallow iron (and the iron masking issues that go along with it) severely restrict detection depth, no matter HOW powerful/sensitive your machine. If you are hunting a relatively trash-free area, and you increase (manual) sensitivity, you will will hear deeper targets than you could with lower sensitivity. However, in iron trash, the BEST way to increase depth is to use a SMALLER COIL -- one that has a better chance of "seeing between the iron."

Just wanted to pass that along.

Take care,

Steve



Minelab Explorer SE Pro, Fisher Gold Bug Pro (DP)
Garrett ProPointer
Lesche 38D "King of Spades"

Norman, OK

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Re: Depth issues...
Posted by: TURNMASTER
Date: May 28, 2011 03:41PM
It can be like driving with your brights on in fog. Sometimes it makes visibility worse.

Jeff



TURNMASTER
Does "Just my two cents" have the same meaning on a treasure hunters forum?
X-Terra 705 & AT Pro

Oldest coin; 1895 Indian Head Penny

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Re: Depth issues...
Posted by: TURNMASTER
Date: May 29, 2011 11:25PM
OK so I got out for 2 hunts. 1 hour represents the few coins behind the ring. 1.5 hr is the Silver dime and the coins with it. FBS 800 coil Sens Man 24, Conductive, IM 22

I feel after running in Manual Sensitivity that the machine is better than in Semi Auto. I did get a couple "troubled" coins. One of the clad dimes came from a patch off the front porch that is so bad you get Iron hits every Inch or 2. (at best) I have gone over that 2' by 6' spot 3x with the Xterra and now 3x with the SE, crawling every time and back n forth and different directions. Some of the other coins were in a bed of nails, although not directly underneath any. The Silver Dime came with a tone that made me think Nickel East to West and had a little higher tone North to South. After pulling that coin and re sweeping the hole there was a very low tone left that did not enter the good area in the Smartfind screen. and Iron 4 to 6 inches in several directions. All of the coins came from ground previously covered by either Xterra or Explorer. Hmmmm I also run the Xterra in Automatic Ground Tracking, but that is a whole nother conversation.

I believe that running with the Sens in Manual it may cause the machine stop searching for a lower setting, Which MAY cause the machine to become underpowered and loose significant depth.

Just my theory. The results will cause me to only run in Manual Sensitivity.


Experts Please Chime In

Jeff

P.S. The clad dime is the only coin that I got out of that patch by the front porch. I am going to run a little less sensitivity and hit that spot again. OH YEAH I dug a TON of iffy and super iffy signals just for kicks and giggles. Most were bent or super rusty or roofing nails or nuts and washers, of various metals.



TURNMASTER
Does "Just my two cents" have the same meaning on a treasure hunters forum?
X-Terra 705 & AT Pro

Oldest coin; 1895 Indian Head Penny



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2011 11:32PM by TURNMASTER.


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Re: Depth issues...
Posted by: TURNMASTER
Date: May 29, 2011 11:46PM
The Silver Dime came with a tone that made me think Nickel East to West and had a little higher tone North to South. After pulling that coin and re sweeping the hole there was a very low tone left that did not enter the good area in the Smartfind screen. and Iron 4 to 6 inches in several directions.


Should Read, 4 to 6 inches away in several directions

Jeff



TURNMASTER
Does "Just my two cents" have the same meaning on a treasure hunters forum?
X-Terra 705 & AT Pro

Oldest coin; 1895 Indian Head Penny

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Re: Depth issues...
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: May 30, 2011 12:44AM
Jeff --

NASA Tom Dankowski's opinion is that running an Explorer is semi-auto WILL cause the machine to underperform -- for exactly the reasons you state. Meanwhile, Bryce-IL on this forum uses semi-auto all the time, feels he does NOT lose depth, and obviously makes a TON of good finds. So, opinions differ, and I guess we need to find out what works for us in our area, with our style of hunting -- which is exactly what you have done! :)

For me, I have been running semi-auto, following Bryce's settings. The machine DOES seem to be more stable running that way, but don't have enough time on it to get a feel for which is better...though I appreciate you sharing your experience. It helps.

Steve



Minelab Explorer SE Pro, Fisher Gold Bug Pro (DP)
Garrett ProPointer
Lesche 38D "King of Spades"

Norman, OK

Re: Depth issues...
Posted by: Doctorcoinz
Date: November 01, 2011 06:10PM
I once got a honest 10 inch medium sized coin with an SE the signal was fairly iffy but good enough to say dig me. Mostly i get coins no deeper than 7 inches i think most coins don't sink deeper than 7 0r 8 inches any way , having said that i believe a few coins can for reasons unknown sink to 12 - 18 inches down especially on pasture or soil that is ploughed Only a pulse induction can get these 12 -18 inch deep coins , i would say 90% of all lost coins are within 8 inches with the remaining 10%
at say 10 - 18 inches , any one agree with this !

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Re: Depth issues...
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: November 02, 2011 02:16PM
Doc --

You raise a very interesting issue; if you really want to have this discussion (coin depth), you might consider putting it in a new thread. I know there are parts of the country where "coins sink" very readily (sandy Florida, for instance), but otherwise, this is a tough question. Do we not see deeper coins (past 8-10'') very often because there AREN'T many, or because our detectors don't SEE them? I tend to think in many cases, what you state above is correct -- at least in my part of the country (Oklahoma, with its very dense, red clay). No WAY do I see a coin naturally "sinking" to 18" in this dirt. But, on the other hand, lots of places we hunt have had fill dirt brought in and spread...so a previously 4" deep coin can easily end up at 8-10", or more, depending. I have no idea how to put a "percent" on it, but I would agree that a huge majority of coins, in most soil, are 8" deep OR SHALLOWER.

Steve



Minelab Explorer SE Pro, Fisher Gold Bug Pro (DP)
Garrett ProPointer
Lesche 38D "King of Spades"

Norman, OK

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Re: Depth issues...
Posted by: EladSwerdna
Date: November 14, 2011 07:53AM
Quote
I could only get the deeper (8-10" coins) by running manual sensitivity, basically maxed out -- in the 30 to 32 range

I don't understand why this is a problem? I have been running max manual sensitivity for years. The only time you ever want to decrease your sens is when you are in a trashy site. (in my opinion anyways) If you're in a non-trashy farm field you should be maxed out. If you are in the woods hunting for relics and deep large cents/old silver, you should be maxed out. If not you will miss out on the deepies.

I personally have not gotten deeper than 10" on large coins. For example, earlier this year I went back to an old site of mine that I thought was hunted out to give it one more chance. I swept slowly and kept the coil as close to the ground as possible. I ended up pulling out an 1839 large cent and 3 feet away an 1825 2 reale, both coins were at 10" and barely registered on the machine. Had I been any less than max sensitivity, I would have missed them completely.

On the other hand I have found larger relics almost 2 feet down with my ETrac. Unfortunately, we will never be able to find small silver/copper at 10"+ with these FBS machines. I wish I could afford a GPX5000; this would open up so many sites again!

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Re: Depth issues...
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: November 16, 2011 01:22AM
Elad --

You are right -- if I were hunting farm fields or woods with little trash, I'd have sens. up as high as possible. However, when hunting iron-trashed areas, the iron falsing is OUT OF CONTROL when running sens. that high. The machine goes crazy with high-tone iron falses, on every sweep.

In any case, I am glad to hear another obviously experienced user saying that 8-10" or so is the MAX that can be expected on a dime/penny. Confirms, for me, what I find in my ground as the deepest possible detection depth with an Explorer.

Steve



Minelab Explorer SE Pro, Fisher Gold Bug Pro (DP)
Garrett ProPointer
Lesche 38D "King of Spades"

Norman, OK

Re: Depth issues...
Posted by: EtracTom-AdirondacksNY
Date: December 26, 2011 04:55PM
Steve lots of good info here for you and I agree with all of it pretty much especially SteveMS who has really been helping you out. Sometimes I think we really are trying too darn hard to find those elusive coins we imagine are there for one reason or another but they really aren't sometimes. Bryce's soil is way different than yours and mine rich black good soil with low mineralization is how I heard it descibed one time but ours is fairly mineralized based on other detectors I have and the ground setting they give after being ground ballanced 85+. He gest deep 10-12" coins where as we may not as ours don't sink that far. Most coins here like others have said are 6-8" deep and not too much more. I only have found 2 coins deeper one an Indian Head Penny 11" deep and a Barber quarter found with my EX2 that burried the depth meter 12" but who knows if it really is that deep unless we actually take a tape measure and measure them.

I think the suggestion of a smaller coil is the absolute best advice for you since you say that this 120 yr old park is really trashy. I went over a small park near here with my stock 11" pro coil then my 8" sunray and now finally I'm hitting it with my 6x8" sef and 5" sunray and I still find coins hidden so with less targets under the coil to see you should have a better time of it for now till you clean out some of the targets then deepers can be focused on if they are there.

Nails still give me fits but I don't mind digging them for the learning experience. I like you with my Etrac KNOW I'm trying to force a signal to be a good signal that isn't one most of the time. The signal will false off the ends of nails and may null if going 90 degrees and resweeping or it may still give a good sounding signal but when you PINPOINT it it will be in a different spot so pretty much a dead giveaway. I also hit one button and go to quick mask wide open and look at the cursor and if it's down in the bottom right corner and stays there it's iron no matter what the sound is singing out to me. I will whole heartedly agree that a coin sound will be a better sound than an iron nail sound it's smoother less choppy screetchy even on silver.
Just sometimes those nails sound so good to me but the other things give them away most of the time. If the soil is pretty wet it's harder to distinguish them from coins. There may not be the coins there that you think are supposedly there.

Nulling it still will signal a good target within reason unless it's a big/bad object. When you get one of those prolonged nulls switch to pinpoint and go over the area and see how big that object is and you will not have those doubts and thoughts much longer. If it's small like a nail that's fine you will see/hear a coin most times in a null but if it's a big hunk of iron the detector isn't going to even see anything through that no matter what your settings neither will anyone else's untill it's removed from the ground. I have a large iron spike I tried to dig up that's about 8"-10" long in my front yard that gives a long null over it so no way a coin under or next to that is going to have a chance. It's just too overpowering of an object.

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Re: Depth issues...
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: December 29, 2011 09:10PM
Appreciate the additional thoughts, Tom. Good stuff.

Steve



Minelab Explorer SE Pro, Fisher Gold Bug Pro (DP)
Garrett ProPointer
Lesche 38D "King of Spades"

Norman, OK

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