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Re: DIGGING DEEP TARGETS
Posted by: DaugBiscuit
Date: December 18, 2011 04:57PM
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kschae4
Don, I've got my sights on the Garrett PP after watching a pp video and taping a coin to the shaft for supposed better depth

Ken, I have the Garrett PP and I knew it's max depth was about 2 inches, but the video you submitted totally surprized me that one could tweek it into giving up an additional 2 inches of target depth, 4 inches is a lot to expect from a handheld pinpointer. Thanks for the video.

Don



CTX-3030, SE Pro, ProPointer

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Re: DIGGING DEEP TARGETS
Posted by: DaugBiscuit
Date: December 18, 2011 05:07PM
Charles, Dave and jcooking, thank you for the insight on the Sunray X-1 probe; I will look into it and see where I can get the best price - I may have to get one for my wife for Christmas, you know, like the chainsaw or air hammer or new weedeater we give our wives for Christmas!? :cheekkiss: (Of course my wife has no interest in metal detecting herself,,, so it was just an oversight, sorry honey).

Thanks again,
Don



CTX-3030, SE Pro, ProPointer

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Re: DIGGING DEEP TARGETS
Posted by: kschae4
Date: December 19, 2011 05:28AM
Welcome,Don. The successful tweaking of the Garrett PP was no guarantee it would would work on the Automax...oh well



Minelab Safari/BH Land Star/ Garrett Pro-Pointer
"Cause down the shore everything's all right"
Oldest identifiable coin- 1775 King George lll half penny

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Try This Tom...
Posted by: Big Fang Coin Biter
Date: December 20, 2011 06:08AM
On the real deep targets that barely give you a pinpoint tone, try lifting the coil up about a foot off the ground and maybe eight inches over from the target. Then hit the pinpoint button and quickly come down and over to the target. For some reason this will make the pinpoint detect deeper (better PP signal). Are you checking the signals at 90 degrees from your first sweeps? This will usually determine if it is iron or a good signal. Iron will usually null (or give a low tone in ferrous tones) at 90 degrees. Keep in mind too that a ball jar lid at a foot and a half will sound like a quarter at 9". So, you may not be digging deep enough to really recover the item. Do get a pinpointer with some depth. The Sun Ray one gets 3-4 inches and is super for deep items. I guess the New Garrett one is popular too, but I have never used one.
Hope this helps, HH - BF

Re: DIGGING DEEP TARGETS
Posted by: cintitomcat
Date: December 20, 2011 10:06AM
Thanks, I will try that. Do other coils pinpoint better than the stock coil or is it just the Explorer 2?

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Re: DIGGING DEEP TARGETS
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: December 20, 2011 11:33AM
Charles -- very good info you gave in that "long" post, and spot-on, in my experience. Everyone should read it...

As for probes/pinpointers -- I have used the Garrett Pro-Pointer for about a year now and LOVE it. Can't imagine detecting without it. Meanwhile, I am currently using a borrowed E-Trac, from a friend, just to see how it compares to my Explorer. It has the Sunray X-1 on it, and I have to say, I like the Garrett better. YES, you do get target ID with the Sunray, but I just can't get used to it. I haven't used it a TON, I admit, but I have found myself just going back to the Pro-Pointer and rarely using the Sunray. On occasion, when I just can't find a target for some reason, I might switch on the Sunray, but it really doesn't seem to do much for me. I find it hard to locate the target with it; sure, it SEES it, but I feel that the Pro-Pointer "pinpoints" better. Now, had my situation been reversed, and I got used to the Sunray for a year and then tried a Pro-Pointer, I might feel equally "lost" with the Pro-Pointer, who knows. All I know is, the Pro-Pointer is a great tool, once you get used to how it behaves...

Steve



Minelab Explorer SE Pro, Fisher Gold Bug Pro (DP)
Garrett ProPointer
Lesche 38D "King of Spades"

Norman, OK

Re: DIGGING DEEP TARGETS
Posted by: Charles (Upstate NY)
Date: December 20, 2011 05:51PM
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sgoss66
Charles -- very good info you gave in that "long" post, and spot-on, in my experience. Everyone should read it...

As for probes/pinpointers -- I have used the Garrett Pro-Pointer for about a year now and LOVE it. Can't imagine detecting without it. Meanwhile, I am currently using a borrowed E-Trac, from a friend, just to see how it compares to my Explorer. It has the Sunray X-1 on it, and I have to say, I like the Garrett better. YES, you do get target ID with the Sunray, but I just can't get used to it. I haven't used it a TON, I admit, but I have found myself just going back to the Pro-Pointer and rarely using the Sunray. On occasion, when I just can't find a target for some reason, I might switch on the Sunray, but it really doesn't seem to do much for me. I find it hard to locate the target with it; sure, it SEES it, but I feel that the Pro-Pointer "pinpoints" better. Now, had my situation been reversed, and I got used to the Sunray for a year and then tried a Pro-Pointer, I might feel equally "lost" with the Pro-Pointer, who knows. All I know is, the Pro-Pointer is a great tool, once you get used to how it behaves...

Steve

Put the E-scrap in pinpoint mode now pinpoint with the X1 probe. :thumbup:

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Re: DIGGING DEEP TARGETS
Posted by: earthlypotluck
Date: December 20, 2011 07:44PM
Wow! drink more coffee! Excellent post! lol I do not own an Explorer but have been researching for a possible second detector. I currently own a Sov GT and was intrigued by the topic at hand. Like cintitomcat mentions in his post, the same thing happens with my Sov GT with signals. For me the percentage rate is higher in locating my finds (98%) recovery rate when opening up a hole. That 2% are iffy signals to begin with and can't locate them. Then due to the size of the hole growing ( in trying to locate the item), I stop. (especially in well manicured lawns) Like the Explorer, the Sov GT hates open holes as well. Your experience, use and thoughts on the Sunray probe kind of opened my "eyes" a little wider into thinking I should invest into one. I sometimes wondered if I was burying coins back up ( due to the air problem between the coil and target(s) ) You finding several additional coins with the sunray probe has really got me thinking.....Maybe I have covered coins back up after pulling out the initial object. I most certainly re-scan after pulling the item out but like you mention - once that hole is opened up maybe that detector coil is not close enough to "see" if there are other items in the hole. I think I know what I have to do this Christmas lol - buy myself a pinpointer. Thanks again for posting - Jim aka earthlypotluck


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Charles (Upstate NY)
First I recommend you go over to Demarco Detector Sales and equip yourself with a Sunray X1 probe, IMO these are manditory when hunting with an Explorer in the dirt. As they are pretty much just a 1 inch coil for your Explorer the probe has all the features your Explorer has, tone ID, pinpointing, etc and depth is a good 3 inches. If nothing else you will be less hesitant to dig a deep iffy knowing when you go in with the probe it will quickly tell you whether to continue digging or close up the hole and move on quickly to the next target. Target recovery is much faster. If its 95 freaking degrees and humid spending less time hunched over digging is a bonus. Because the X1 probe has such good depth and tone ID it will also help you recover more coins in holes where there are multiple coins. One problem with the Explorer is, once you open up the hole and there's air between the coil and the targets vs ground it loses depth. I can't tell you how many times I have dug a hole, recovered a coin, I 'think' I hear something else in the hole with the probe, check the hole with the big coil nothing...but the probe says give it a shot, dig a little deeper and 1 or 2 or in one case 7 more coins that were just progressively deeper into the hole. I NEVER use pinpoint mode with the stock coil, useless to me BUT I often use pinpoint mode with the probe. One problem with probes is once you open up the hole and you go in with the probe sometimes you get too close to the target, its screaming in your headphones but you can't pinpoint it because it seems like its everywhere, switch to pinpoint mode and the probe will put you right on top of it. Don't do what I did, I scoffed at the probe at first, I don't need no stinking probe bah, then I started digging deep holes after I learned the machine and what a nightmare. I was either chasing a nail poking into the hole sidways or I'd finally recover a nice silver coin AFTER I carved a big gouge into it with my digger. I finally purchased the probe and then kicked myself for waiting so long. The Sunray X1 probe ladies and gentlemen, my favorite accessory.

Now as for these signals that come and go, for newer users this tip will save you a lot of headache. The Explorer will pick up signals off to the sides/front,rear of your coil and if you don't have the coil centered over your target the depth of the target will also be way off, the depth meter is only accurate when you are centered over the target, if the target is off to one side the machine will report the target as being much deeper than it really is. Shallow clad is nortorious for this, the Explorer is pretty hot it can pick up shallow targets well outside the diameter of the coil. SO here's the tip, when you think you have found a target of interest, check the surounding area with your coil, I generally check a coil size area around my target so maybe an area 30 inches in diameter. I want to know what else is in the vicinity of my target because nearby targets can pull my pinpoint off center, a nearby target may be trying to mask my target, or my target may in fact be one of those nearby targets and I'm just not centered over it. This is especially important in an area of rusty nails, rusty nails throw a signal off sideways along the length of the nail, they can project a signal quite some distance and if you are picking up this signal off the side/front of your coil it often will be a high tone iron falsing signal trying to fake you out that its a coin. Often once you get centered over the nail it then ID's properly as a nail, even so there are some stuborn nails that false even when you are centered over them. The trick with them is turn 90 degrees and sweep the target again, did it go low like a nail? Yep its a nail. Another good trick for sniffing out rusty nails falsing is to watch where the cursor on the screen is hitting (smartfind or iron mask mode not digital). Rusty nails falsing are very reliable in this regard. They ID on the screen in two locations, top/left corner where they are supposed to ID, and far right edge of the screen, cursor half off the right edge of the sceen, cursor down from the top about in the silver half dollar area. As you sweep you will see the cursor bounce between those two locations, this is a classic bounce pattern, you may have heard some old timers talk about bounce patterns this is one I look for because its so reliable for properly ID'ing iron fasling.

Okay wow that's a lot of typing, I may have over did it on the coffee this morning.


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Quote: Put the( E-scrap) in pinpoint mode now pinpoint with the X1 probe.Charles (Upstate NY) Your ignorance is amusing:rofl:N/T
Posted by: Ray-Mo.
Date: December 20, 2011 08:19PM

(This message does not contain any text.)


Re: DIGGING DEEP TARGETS
Posted by: cavenm01
Date: December 20, 2011 09:39PM
This is called the halo effect. What happens is that the target has enough pollarity with the dirt around and on top of it to give a signal but once you remove the soil from over it the target looses signal. Most of us who are long time relic hunters are used to this. We keep our machines to where you can change easily to all metal mode. The machine I use is a Garrett and you can put all metal as a secondary hunting mode so if you loose signal on a target you press one button and go to all metal. and 99% of the time you will find it. Also 99 % of the time it ends up being a piece of shotgon lead or other small lead bullet. sometimes a lot of small nails will be in a hole but are just small balls of rust but they still put out signal because with the soil around them there's enough magnetics there. but if you,re realy lucky small colonial buttons such as cuff buttons will do this if they,re deep. I hope this helps because even though it,s aggrivating to dig these signals these are usually the signals that produce the rarest targets. especially on colonial sites. I,m in Louisiana and the targets from that period here are usually extremely deep and if you don't dig these signals you miss a lot of relics.

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That is one of the best features of the x-1 probe...
Posted by: Big Fang Coin Biter
Date: December 21, 2011 05:53AM
Yep, if you are going after the deep signals, a fair percentage of those signals will be iron falses. With the SR probe you can open up a deep plug, run the probe around the bottom of the hole, if it is iron, you will know right away. If it is nonferrous it will sing out! Now on the same iron false target with non-ID pinpointer - you are still digging and have to actually see what you found. Saves a ton of valuable detecting time.
I am with Charles on the X-1 probe.

There is one downfall and that is, the probe is attached to your machine, adding weight. The new ones are about half the size of the one I use so they must be lighter. IMHO the benefits "outweigh" the weight.

HH - BF

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Re: DIGGING DEEP TARGETS
Posted by: DaugBiscuit
Date: December 21, 2011 07:44AM
Charles said,

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Charles (Upstate NY)
Put the E-scrap in pinpoint mode now pinpoint with the X1 probe. :thumbup:

Is this true, does one have to put the detector in pinpoint mode for the X-1 to work? I have the Garrett PP, a turn on and search pinpointer which has always worked well for me but I'm following this thread because I'm interested in the X-1 if it is a more efficient pinpointer but it almost sounds like there is a process you have to follow, step 1, 2, 3, and maybe 4 to follow just to operate it - I have never actually seen one but I'm wondering does it consistently save that much time over a Garrett all things considered (especially the price tag and added weight)? I searched for a link to an owners manual but couldn't find one.



CTX-3030, SE Pro, ProPointer

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Re: DIGGING DEEP TARGETS
Posted by: morelic55
Date: December 21, 2011 09:32AM
Quote
DaugBiscuit
Charles said,

Quote
Charles (Upstate NY)
Put the E-scrap in pinpoint mode now pinpoint with the X1 probe. :thumbup:

Is this true, does one have to put the detector in pinpoint mode for the X-1 to work? I have the Garrett PP, a turn on and search pinpointer which has always worked well for me but I'm following this thread because I'm interested in the X-1 if it is a more efficient pinpointer but it almost sounds like there is a process you have to follow, step 1, 2, 3, and maybe 4 to follow just to operate it - I have never actually seen one but I'm wondering does it consistently save that much time over a Garrett all things considered (especially the price tag and added weight)? I searched for a link to an owners manual but couldn't find one.

No, you don't have to put the detector in PP Mode to use the X-1, just leave it in your regular search mode and you will have discrimination with a basicly 1" coil down in the hole. That is the reason I like the X-1 to wade thru nails when I hunt......Mark



Diggin' In The Missouri Ozarks

Re: DIGGING DEEP TARGETS
Posted by: Charles (Upstate NY)
Date: December 21, 2011 04:03PM
Quote
morelic55
Quote
DaugBiscuit
Charles said,

Quote
Charles (Upstate NY)
Put the E-scrap in pinpoint mode now pinpoint with the X1 probe. :thumbup:

Is this true, does one have to put the detector in pinpoint mode for the X-1 to work? I have the Garrett PP, a turn on and search pinpointer which has always worked well for me but I'm following this thread because I'm interested in the X-1 if it is a more efficient pinpointer but it almost sounds like there is a process you have to follow, step 1, 2, 3, and maybe 4 to follow just to operate it - I have never actually seen one but I'm wondering does it consistently save that much time over a Garrett all things considered (especially the price tag and added weight)? I searched for a link to an owners manual but couldn't find one.

No, you don't have to put the detector in PP Mode to use the X-1, just leave it in your regular search mode and you will have discrimination with a basicly 1" coil down in the hole. That is the reason I like the X-1 to wade thru nails when I hunt......Mark

Guys I think you both missed the context of the discussion. The X1 probe will get a good 3-4 inches of depth, sometimes that's a problem. If you dig a hole and the coin or target is just laying there 1/2 inch deep you will get such a strong signal from the X1 probe you can't actually pin-point it in the hole e.g. you are too close to the target. Switching the Explorer to pin-point mode will let you pinpoint exactly where the target is in those situations. Most of the time this is not required but its handy when it is. This is another example where the X1 probe having all the features of your Explorer is a plus over some handheld probes.

Re: Quote: Put the( E-scrap) in pinpoint mode now pinpoint with the X1 probe.Charles (Upstate NY) Your ignorance is amusing:rofl:
Posted by: Charles (Upstate NY)
Date: December 21, 2011 04:04PM
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Ray-Mo.
n/t

Oh the irony of your post. lol