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2 Tone Ferrous
Posted by: Milk86
Date: May 19, 2012 09:54PM
Was wondering if there is a way to set up the SE Pro for a program like 2 Tone Ferrous. I am new to the SE as Steve knows.

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Re: 2 Tone Ferrous
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: May 20, 2012 10:25AM
Milk --

It's a long story but short answer is you COULD do it, but just running ferrous sounds is an appropriate option on the SE Pro.

Here is the longer answer...

The E-Trac tries to normalize all "good" targets to give an FE number of 12; thus, in theory, all good targets would sound the same if running an Explorer-type "ferrous sounds" option on the E-Trac-- since they theoretically all ID as FE 12, the tone for all good targets would be the same. SO -- with the E-Trac, all you really need is a "good" tone (the tone associated with a "12" FE number), and a "bad" tone (the tone associated with all other FE numbers). That seems to me to be why they didn't directly install the Explorer's "ferrous sounds" option directly onto the E-Trac, but instead, a ferrous "two tone" option.

Now, In reality, of course, not all good targets will ID perfectly as 12 on the E-Trac, especially deep ones, so I think what the E-Trac actually does with the two-tone ferrous option, is it assigns the "good" tone to targets with an FE number as high as 16, but then the "bad" tone to all targets which have a FE number 17 and higher. Thus, you are digging all targets that ID as high as 16 FE, when running TTF. Anyway, you can see, due to the E-Trac's "normalizing" of the FE number to 12, the implications of running your tones to be cued off the FE number are different with the E-Trac than with the Explorer.

Obviously, on the Explorer, the FE number range for good targets is much broader than that of the E-Trac, since the Explorer does NOT "normalize" the FE numbers to "12." Thus, when cueing your tones off of the FE ID number on an Explorer, most folks would generally want more tones assigned to the range of FE values that good targets can "ID" as. Thus -- running "conductive" sounds is the way it's done on the Explorer. IF, for whatever reason, you wanted to run only a couple of tones and run ferrous sounds, on your Explorer, you COULD set your machine to run ferrous sounds, and then cut your limits and your variability down to some minumum value (like 1 or 2 or something), and you'd end up with only a couple of tones -- somewhat emulating the TTF of the E-Trac. Again, though, it does not make any sense, to me, to try that, as the whole reason that running ferrous sounds on the Explorer is different than running "ferrous sounds" on the E-Trac, is due to the very different way the machines handle the values of FE numbers assigned to good vs. bad targets. Make sense?

If you want to get some of the same benefits of the E-Trac's TTF on your Explorer, then just set your tones to ferrous sounds, and give it a shot. Many do well that way. I have, on occasion, run that way when hunting in a "carpet of nails" type of site, with some success...

Hope that helps, my friend...

Steve



Minelab Explorer SE Pro, Fisher Gold Bug Pro (DP)
Garrett ProPointer
Lesche 38D "King of Spades"

Norman, OK

Re: 2 Tone Ferrous
Posted by: diggingitup
Date: May 20, 2012 03:32PM
is this easy to do id like to try it

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Re: 2 Tone Ferrous
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: May 20, 2012 03:39PM
Yes, very easy, diggingitup. Just go into your menu, and change your sounds from conductive to ferrous -- you have three choices, ferrous, conductive, and constant. Just switch to ferrous, and you now are cueing your tones based on FE number -- the higher the ferrous number of your target, the lower the tone, the lower the ferrous number, the higher the tone. Thus, most coins (except nickels, or deep coins/coins near trash), will still be very high tones, just like when hunting conductive sounds (owing to the low ferrous ID number on most coins).

As a last step, most folks who run FE sounds run an "open screen," i.e. switch to "iron mask" and set it to 32 (on the SE/SE Pro -- which is equivalent to -16 on the earlier Explorers). This way, you are "hearing everything," no disc -- and the majority of the trash (iron-type stuff), will be just a barrage of low-tone grunts; listening for the higher tones within the constant low-tone barrage allows you to sometimes squeak out some keepers from amongst the iron trash.

It is not as effective to hunt open screen/ferrous sounds in MODERN trash (aluminum, etc.), but you can do it; it's best though to use this technique when your primary trash type is iron.

Steve



Minelab Explorer SE Pro, Fisher Gold Bug Pro (DP)
Garrett ProPointer
Lesche 38D "King of Spades"

Norman, OK



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2012 03:45PM by sgoss66.

Re: 2 Tone Ferrous
Posted by: diggingitup
Date: May 20, 2012 03:43PM
thanks for the great response my friend tried this on his etrac pulled out more keepers im just learning my explorer and have about 17 hrs on it w two silvers 9 wheats liking it but want to learn more about it i got the andy book the other day to

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Re: 2 Tone Ferrous
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: May 20, 2012 03:51PM
diggingitup -- no problem, glad to help. You are finding the good stuff already, which is good, and Andy's book will help immensely.

I might suggest that you stay in conductive mode for awhile, and learn the sounds. Silver coins, especially deeper dimes, will have a very distinct, high, tinkly, warbly tone most times, when hunting conductive (assuming you have your variability and your limits settings maxed out at "10"). Learning what target is associated with what sound is a HUGE part of learning your Explorer. If you switch back and forth between conductive and ferrous all the time, as a new user, you will delay the process of "etching into your brain" the sounds of a "good target." What I would suggest is hunting conductive sounds, with the same gain setting, the same variability setting (maxed out), and the same limits setting (maxed out), and just get used to the sounds you get with different targets -- learning particularly what your "good targets" sound like most of the time. Then, LATER, when you have the experience with what things "sound like," when using conductive, you might pull out the "ferrous sounds" option, if you find yourself in a site with very thick iron trash.

Anyway, just a suggestion. Whatever works best for you...

Enjoy your new machine!

Steve



Minelab Explorer SE Pro, Fisher Gold Bug Pro (DP)
Garrett ProPointer
Lesche 38D "King of Spades"

Norman, OK

Re: 2 Tone Ferrous
Posted by: Milk86
Date: May 20, 2012 04:32PM
Thanks for the info Steve.

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Re: 2 Tone Ferrous
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: May 20, 2012 04:34PM
No problem, Milk!

Steve



Minelab Explorer SE Pro, Fisher Gold Bug Pro (DP)
Garrett ProPointer
Lesche 38D "King of Spades"

Norman, OK

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Re: 2 Tone Ferrous
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: May 20, 2012 04:37PM
By the way, in the post above, I said:

Thus -- running "conductive" sounds is the way it's done on the Explorer....

But MEANT to say:

Thus -- running "ferrous" sounds is the way it's done on the Explorer...

Sorry for any confusion!

Steve



Minelab Explorer SE Pro, Fisher Gold Bug Pro (DP)
Garrett ProPointer
Lesche 38D "King of Spades"

Norman, OK



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2012 04:38PM by sgoss66.

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Re: 2 Tone Ferrous
Posted by: stasys
Date: May 24, 2012 04:02PM
Quote
sgoss66
Milk --

It's a long story but short answer is you COULD do it, but just running ferrous sounds is an appropriate option on the SE Pro.

Here is the longer answer...

The E-Trac tries to normalize all "good" targets to give an FE number of 12; thus, in theory, all good targets would sound the same if running an Explorer-type "ferrous sounds" option on the E-Trac-- since they theoretically all ID as FE 12, the tone for all good targets would be the same. SO -- with the E-Trac, all you really need is a "good" tone (the tone associated with a "12" FE number), and a "bad" tone (the tone associated with all other FE numbers). That seems to me to be why they didn't directly install the Explorer's "ferrous sounds" option directly onto the E-Trac, but instead, a ferrous "two tone" option.

Now, In reality, of course, not all good targets will ID perfectly as 12 on the E-Trac, especially deep ones, so I think what the E-Trac actually does with the two-tone ferrous option, is it assigns the "good" tone to targets with an FE number as high as 16, but then the "bad" tone to all targets which have a FE number 17 and higher. Thus, you are digging all targets that ID as high as 16 FE, when running TTF. Anyway, you can see, due to the E-Trac's "normalizing" of the FE number to 12, the implications of running your tones to be cued off the FE number are different with the E-Trac than with the Explorer.

Obviously, on the Explorer, the FE number range for good targets is much broader than that of the E-Trac, since the Explorer does NOT "normalize" the FE numbers to "12." Thus, when cueing your tones off of the FE ID number on an Explorer, most folks would generally want more tones assigned to the range of FE values that good targets can "ID" as. Thus -- running "conductive" sounds is the way it's done on the Explorer. IF, for whatever reason, you wanted to run only a couple of tones and run ferrous sounds, on your Explorer, you COULD set your machine to run ferrous sounds, and then cut your limits and your variability down to some minumum value (like 1 or 2 or something), and you'd end up with only a couple of tones -- somewhat emulating the TTF of the E-Trac. Again, though, it does not make any sense, to me, to try that, as the whole reason that running ferrous sounds on the Explorer is different than running "ferrous sounds" on the E-Trac, is due to the very different way the machines handle the values of FE numbers assigned to good vs. bad targets. Make sense?

If you want to get some of the same benefits of the E-Trac's TTF on your Explorer, then just set your tones to ferrous sounds, and give it a shot. Many do well that way. I have, on occasion, run that way when hunting in a "carpet of nails" type of site, with some success...

Hope that helps, my friend...

Steve
Dont know why but I dont see any different Etrac TTF and any Explorer TTF, never understood what is the relation 12 FE numbers on etrac to detecting in the field except number on the screen? I think on Etrac is Fe numbers 12 but its behaves like Explorer. Use only TTF last three years.

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Re: 2 Tone Ferrous
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: May 24, 2012 07:29PM
stasys -- the Explorer does not in fact have a "Two-Tone Ferrous" (TTF) option; I was trying to explain/speculate why that might be the case to Milk86. We Explorer users can run "ferrous" sounds, but that is not the same as the "TTF" option on the E-Trac; our Explorer ferrous sounds are "multitone;" TTF on the E-Trac is two tones.

But I agree with you, the E-Trac behaves much like the Explorers in general.

Steve



Minelab Explorer SE Pro, Fisher Gold Bug Pro (DP)
Garrett ProPointer
Lesche 38D "King of Spades"

Norman, OK

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Re: 2 Tone Ferrous
Posted by: stasys
Date: May 25, 2012 02:53PM
Quote
sgoss66
stasys -- the Explorer does not in fact have a "Two-Tone Ferrous" (TTF) option; I was trying to explain/speculate why that might be the case to Milk86. We Explorer users can run "ferrous" sounds, but that is not the same as the "TTF" option on the E-Trac; our Explorer ferrous sounds are "multitone;" TTF on the E-Trac is two tones.

But I agree with you, the E-Trac behaves much like the Explorers in general.

Steve
Hello Steve, I think on Etrac you can choose 2 tones if you want, but I dont like it and dont use it,but in general TTF Etrac works 100% the same like explorer, without discrimination. or I am missing something and have to switch on my explorer to compare-Again. :cheers:

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Re: 2 Tone Ferrous
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: May 25, 2012 06:06PM
Stasys -- TTF, means two-tone ferrous -- that's what the letters stand for -- Two Tone Ferrous. If you choose the TTF option on the E-Trac, you are BY DEFINITION running "two tones." One tone for all targets that register 0-17 FE, and one, lower tone for all targets that register 18-35 FE. So, an E-Trac user can choose to run TTF, but an Explorer user cannot -- because there is no two-tone ferrous option on the Explorer's menu system.

I'm not trying to be nit-picky or split hairs, at all -- I hope I'm not coming across as being argumentative -- I just want to make sure readers are not confused. There is an option to run Two-Tone Ferrous, on the E-Trac. There IS no Two-Tone Ferrous option on the Explorer; on the Explorer, you CAN choose to run "Ferrous" sounds, but it is NOT a "two-tone" option, it's a "multitone" option.

Steve



Minelab Explorer SE Pro, Fisher Gold Bug Pro (DP)
Garrett ProPointer
Lesche 38D "King of Spades"

Norman, OK



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2012 06:11PM by sgoss66.

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Re: 2 Tone Ferrous
Posted by: stasys
Date: May 26, 2012 03:30PM
You are right Steve names in menu is different but dont know if any difference in performance, what I can see using Etrac and Explorer they are the same without discrimination. Stasys

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Re: 2 Tone Ferrous
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: May 26, 2012 09:34PM
Yep, stasys -- that was my main point, the names are different and the number of tones are different when running "ferrous" on the two machines; just didn't want anyone to be confused.

You are right in that you can do well hunting no discrimination and "ferrous" sounds on either machine. I don't know if there's any advantage to the E-Trac's "two-tone" Ferrous, vs. the Explorer's "multitone" ferrous -- just as I'm not sure there's any advantage to the E-Trac's programming which normalizes FE values of good targets to "12." I personally haven't run TTF on the E-Trac, but I have run no discrimination and ferrous sounds on the Explorer when hunting in nail-filled areas, and done well with it. Others I know have done well with TTF on the E-Trac. That's the bottom line -- it's another way that either Explorer OR E-Trac users can set up their machines to get the most out of different types of sites and hunting conditions.

Thanks for the exchange -- wishing you luck on your hunts...

Steve



Minelab Explorer SE Pro, Fisher Gold Bug Pro (DP)
Garrett ProPointer
Lesche 38D "King of Spades"

Norman, OK



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2012 09:36PM by sgoss66.

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