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Racer 2 possible issue______ may be me !
Posted by: Dataman
Date: December 30, 2016 04:19AM
Hello all,
Some history first, I've had my racer 2 for a few weeks and I'm happy how things are going, learning the tones and setups for detecting different areas. I upgraded from a nokta 1 which in its own right is a great machine with great depth and durability.

But I may have came across a issue or some advice on how to proceed.
The racer has been out with me on 2 club digs, pasture in the UK.
Both ground types were not heavy mineralised, but I can't seem to get the depth.
So after a recent dig I did some testing in my back garden, and buried a 6 pence which is I believe 40% silver at around 4 inches and the racer really struggled to pick it up. Deep mode was fine as was all metal, but 2 tone and 3 tone barely picked it up.

Concerned I went through a air test with some other modern coins from the UK and was shocked that the machine does not recognise our new 10p coins at all.?.
Only in all metal mode and very reluctantly. Now I don't want to pick up hundereds of
These coins but if it is missing this coin what else am I missing.
I have tried a factory default and a manual ground balance but still silver is not the greatest signal, or not at all.

Please if it's a user issue great I love this machine but if not. Nokta 1 may make a come back.

Thanks in advance.
Martin.

Re: Racer 2 possible issue______ may be me !
Posted by: csarebelva
Date: December 30, 2016 02:20PM
Silver rings like a champ on my Racer ....in fact everyone calls it the coin sniffer.

On three tone I hunt at 85 gain / 10 ID filter and 5 Iron audio this seems to work well and I often find coins at 6 inches .... I have not depth tested to see actual depth but I found a .7 gram silver coin at 3 inches and it was a good signal.

American quarters ring at 88 silver or clad and they are easy to pick up at 4 inches plus I know I have found a silver dime at 7 inches.

maybe there is something with that unit but I don't know ...... I also don't know what your 10p coin is made of but I find it hard to believe unless it is pure junk metal it doesn't pick it up.

Try the settings I use and make sure you have not notched out a large range of targets and saved it by accident...... if so your machine will go back to that setting every time you turn it on unless you take the notching out and save it again.

Good Luck



CSArebelVA AKA Freddie Lee

Makro Racer and Makro Racer 2
Tesoro Ciabola
Makro Pinpointer
Lesche Ground Shark28" Shovel

Oldest coin 1662 Two Pence
Best Relics Washington Artillery Tongue and Wreath / CSA General Staff large with CSA in Shield / Manuscript I Button

Re: Racer 2 possible issue______ may be me !
Posted by: squirrel1
Date: December 30, 2016 04:01PM
In 2 tone,,,Max the gain,,does coil overload??
Would be one sure way to tell a coil problem.

Might try disconnecting and reconnecting and t hint,,or changing coil altogether if you uave one.

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Re: Racer 2 possible issue______ may be me !
Posted by: calabash digger
Date: December 30, 2016 06:45PM
I just bought one and it doesnt hit deep small silver that hard either I have a five inch silver size of a trime and it struggles with that and it wont touch a 9 1/2 silver dime period. It will hit a 10 clad quarter and a 12 inch silver half but struggles on the smaller silver at depth. I did crank it up today and it hit the trime but still wouldnt touch the 9 1/2 dime in 3 tone or 2 tone. I will do some air test with it on silver. I am very impressed with the unmasking potential but concerned a little. I got 3 coils with mine .I watched scanner guy on youtube struggle to hit a 8 inch nickel with his all he said was thats strange . I will do some test and see what I come up with.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2016 07:14PM by calabash digger.

Re: Racer 2 possible issue______ may be me !
Posted by: Dataman
Date: December 31, 2016 02:57AM
Quote
squirrel1
In 2 tone,,,Max the gain,,does coil overload??
Would be one sure way to tell a coil problem.

Might try disconnecting and reconnecting and t hint,,or changing coil altogether if you uave one.

Hi I tried this suggestion as I thought it might be a coil issue but it didn't overload on full gain. Thanks and at least I know it's not the coil.

I have done a factory default so no notch at all and tried the different gain strengths, I have noticed in my garden the ground indicator is on 4 bars, is this normal with a auto ground balance. I tried a manual balance at 40-44 but very little difference.

As for the new 10 pence ill try and post a quick video of the coin and the racers reaction, it also seems someone else has noticed this with some us coins.
Once again thanks.
Martin.

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Re: Racer 2 possible issue______ may be me !
Posted by: calabash digger
Date: December 31, 2016 07:37AM
It hit the coins in my air test . Its just a depth thing it doesnt air test deep on some of them so maybe the 8 inch nickel he struggle to hit was just at the edge of its detection depth for that object. I did my air test with the 10 x 5 so I will do another later with the stock coil.

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Re: Racer 2 possible issue______ may be me !
Posted by: calabash digger
Date: December 31, 2016 07:52AM
I put the stock coil onin 3 tone and did a air test with buttons ,lg cent ,half dime,v nickel,indian penny,3 ringer etc . It hit them all so its not missing them but it didnt air test real deep of some of them so my issue is some of my targets in my test garden are just on the edge or out of its detection range in 3 tone. The reason scanner guy struggle to hit a 8 inch nickel is because thats as deep as it will detect it ,it air test about that depth too in 3 tone. My other machine air test it a foot or better .



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2016 08:03AM by calabash digger.

Re: Racer 2 possible issue______ may be me !
Posted by: squirrel1
Date: December 31, 2016 08:15AM
3 tone not as deep as 2 tone.
In real high mineral,,,depth of 2 tone and 3 tone can be mirror images depth wise.

Don't forget even using 2 tone,,,you can set tone break,,,to get rid of some junk(lower conductive)

Since you are a Deus user,,,I recommend using your Racer 2 with smallest coil in conjunction with Deus.
5x10 coil might work as well.

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Re: Racer 2 possible issue______ may be me !
Posted by: calabash digger
Date: December 31, 2016 03:17PM
thanks for the input I got the 6.5 nel snake and of course the 10 x 5 which seperates as good as anything ive seen in my test garden had the flu so havent been to the field with it yet.

Re: Racer 2 possible issue______ may be me !
Posted by: squirrel1
Date: December 31, 2016 03:37PM
Quote
calabash digger
thanks for the input I got the 6.5 nel snake and of course the 10 x 5 which seperates as good as anything ive seen in my test garden had the flu so havent been to the field with it yet.

Get well soon!!

Re: Racer 2 possible issue______ may be me !
Posted by: Dataman
Date: December 31, 2016 03:52PM
Well went to my local park for some testing not to hunt just try some different soil, machine was in full factory mode, default settings.
Started of by lowering the gain to 45 this calmed the machine down and tried the elusive 10 pence from 2014, now this looks in mint condition and is very shiney, into the soil at around 5 inches, bedded down, nothing not a sound and barely a sound from deep mode.
I tried the 2 tone and the 3 tone at various gains and got very little back.

But this is where it gets interesting I had a 2012 coin same design but worn and tried this and guess what it picked it up very clear but with a slight iron grunt at the end of the pass.
So my feeling is shiney coins are harder to pick up as the slight oxidation from what ever alloy is in these coins are what the racer is bouncing of, does that make sense.
Any how I had a quick hunt around the edge of the field and came up with a silver opal ring much to my surprise, so it likes silver today as well. This was still in 40 gain as well so around 4-5 inches down not deep at all.
Happy now.
Thanks for the insights guy's.

Dataman, I believe you're experiencing several things, to include:
Posted by: Monte
Date: January 01, 2017 11:31AM
• Not being fully familiar with the Racer 2's adjustment settings.

• Not knowing what the sample targets are made of, and that can be a problem with the Discrimination level used.


Quote
Dataman
Well went to my local park for some testing not to hunt just try some different soil, machine was in full factory mode, default settings.
Started of by lowering the gain to 45 this calmed the machine down...
By "full factory mode" do you mean you selected the Default setting and restored all programs to the factory default?

After doing that, did you adjust the Gain to '45' do to EMI 'noise' in the area? Was that determined with the search coil held well off the ground or with it at about an inch-or-two search height? Remember that a search coil held in the air or waist high will be more susceptible to EMI that might not bother it if the coil is positioned closer to the ground mineral at a proper search height.

Did you make adjustments to ID Filter or anything else?


Quote
Dataman
... and tried the elusive 10 pence from 2014, now this looks in mint condition and is very shiney,
Appearance doesn't matter unless the coin was bent, cut, or had hole(s) in it, or unless there was some terrible build-up on the outside such as rust or some poor-conductive matter, etc.

The 10 Pence, if we are referring to British coinage, used to be made of a more noble metal, and prior to 2012, the coin contained 75% copper and 25% nickel (Cupronickel). Since 2012, the coin has been made of steel and plated with nickel, and that's what likely gave the newer coin the 'shiny' outside appearance. It is also what helps contribute to poor coin detection.

Ferrous or magnetic-based metals, and that includes Iron, Steel and Nickel, have a different effect on a detector's EMF (electromagnetic field) than will a non-ferrous metal/metals, such as Aluminum, Copper, Bronze, Gold, Silver, etc. Not only do ferrous metals effect the EMF differently than non-ferrous objects of the same size and shape, but they are generally lower-conductive and more easily rejected (Discriminated).

Not knowing the amount of Discrimination/ID Filter you are using, or the sweep speed used, that can effect the ability to 'detect' or 'beep' on some targets such as this one.


Quote
Dataman
... into the soil at around 5 inches, bedded down, nothing not a sound and barely a sound from deep mode.
Was the coin positioned flat in the ground so as to be flat-to-the-coil and not on-edge or canted? What was the Ground Balance required or used at the site? How strong was the MMI to suggest iron mineralized ground? Other factors, such as the sample target being 'fresh buried', can have an effect to impair detection.


Quote
Dataman
I tried the 2 tone and the 3 tone at various gains and got very little back.
Again, without any of us being there to know all the variables, such as ALL the settings and not just Gain, it is difficult to comment with certainty. That is, I will state that in most mineralized environments I don't have a problem hitting similar size or type of targets at that depth, but I almost always hunt with a rather low ID Filter/Discrimination setting.


Quote
Dataman
But this is where it gets interesting I had a 2012 coin same design but worn and tried this and guess what it picked it up very clear but with a slight iron grunt at the end of the pass.
It might have been that you had an earlier mintage alloy mixture and it was a Cupronickel and not Steel with a Nickel plating, and that would have made it more conductive.


Quote
Dataman
So my feeling is shiney coins are harder to pick up as the slight oxidation from what ever alloy is in these coins are what the racer is bouncing of, does that make sense.
:rofl: No, that doesn't make sense. The transmitted EMF doesn't really "bounce off' the coins. Metal objects will disrupt the EMF, generally in one of two different ways, and the blink-of-an-eye effect from the signal being absorbed by the metal object and the new EMF generated on/from the metal object will cause the changes that the detector circuitry will receive and process. That nickel plating on the coin that made it shiny isn't an interfering oxidation but just a plating of Nickel, and depending upon the thickness, the coins alloy make-up absorbs some of the EMF and that new field generated about the coin is then detected. The received signal is processed, and based upon all your settings ... to include rejection of lower conductive targets ... the detector might pass along an audio and/or visual target response .... if accepted.


Quote
Dataman
Any how I had a quick hunt around the edge of the field and came up with a silver opal ring much to my surprise, so it likes silver today as well. This was still in 40 gain as well so around 4-5 inches down not deep at all.
A 4"-5" deep ring is not really a shallow depth, and the Racer 2 is quite capable of hitting on accepted targets to very reasonable depths, even as your Gain of '40' might suggest. Congrats on the ring find. :thumbup:


Quote
Dataman
Happy now.
Thanks for the insights guy's.
Stay Happy! Enjoy this New Year, and have faith in your Racer 2 as it is an excellent detector. If not it wouldn't be in my arsenal, and it is very capable of finding deeper-positioned targets. It's all a matter of learning and understanding the best settings to use, selecting the right search coil for the site, and being patient while using a proper sweep speed.

Oh, the 6 Pence coin you used (if made from 1947 to 1970) was of Cupronickel and therefore a much more conductive coin than the magnetic-based metal 10 Pence coin discussed earlier.

Monte



"Your EYES ... the only 100% accurate form of Discrimination!"

Stinkwater Wells
Trading Post

Metal Detector Evaluations and Product Reviews
'How-To' help for Coin & Jewelry Hunting, Relic Hunting and Useful Techniques.

My Regular-Use Detectors:
Makro: Racer 2 w/'OOR' or 5" DD
Nokta: 2-Impact's w/5" DD and w/5X9½ DD, 3-Relic's w/5" DD, w/5½X10 Concentric and w/7X11 DD, 2-CoRe's w/'OOR' and w/7X11 DD
Tesoro: Vaquero, Bandido II µMAX, Silver Sabre µMAX each w/6" Concentric and Mojave w/7" Concentric

Other Specialty Use Detectors from:
Compass, Makro, Nokta and Tesoro
Note: Detectors are listed alphabetically by Brand, NOT in my order of preference for use. Additional search coils on-hand in accessory bag.

Pinpointers: Using Nokta and Makro Pointers.
Headphones: Using the Killer B 'Hornet'.

*** All working well today to make memories for tomorrow. ***

monte@stinkwaterwells.com .. or .. monte@ahrps.org
(503) 481-8147


Re: Racer 2 possible issue______ may be me !
Posted by: Dataman
Date: January 02, 2017 07:50AM
Thanks monte for the in depth reply a lot to consider.

See if I can answer a couple of the replys, it was a factory default with the standard I'd filter and the only thing I changed was the gain as I had read that a higher gain can be a little miss leading could be wrong.

Swing speed was slow and constant and very slow in deep mode.

I think I was asking to much of the machine as I'm still learning it's limitations and coming from the nokta 1 which is a deep machine. I'll keep plugging away but my confidence is restored a little after finding the ring,

Once again thanks
Martin.

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