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2 tones for me
Posted by: Kapok
Date: July 27, 2017 09:33PM
I have completely bonded with two tones now on my R2. When I first got it, I used only 3 tones since I thought 2 was too noisy. But after spending many hours with it this summer, I now almost exclusively run 2 tones with the ID filter at 3-5. Even in thick iron, it is surprisingly stable, and I am willing to accept the little extra sparkiness in 2 tones in return for the added sensitivity and depth. And hearing the iron helps me separate out the good stuff from surrounding junk.

The more I use the Racer 2 and learn its nuances, the more I love it. In high trash, the 5x4.5" coil is so good, and deeper than I thought it would be. I picked out these two coins from fist-sized underlying chunks of iron.

The side story is I bought a used Explorer SE and am supposed to be learning it this summer, but I keep find myself putting it back in the car and grabbing my little R2.



Ridding the world of pulltabs, one plug at a time | Makro Racer 2 | Minelab Explorer SE




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Re: 2 tones for me
Posted by: Cal_Cobra
Date: July 27, 2017 11:44PM
Nice digs!

I really need to focus on 2 tone mode... like you I've tried it, and it takes some getting used to if you're not already.

I have been using the DEEP mode more and more (also two tone), I adjusted the audio tone to 70, and I'm slowly warning up to it. Definitely a LOT different then 3 or 4 tone modes, but if it gets the goods, then so be it.

hh,
Cal

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Re: 2 tones for me
Posted by: OregonGregg
Date: July 28, 2017 05:42AM
Two tone for me does take a bit getting used to. But I hunt old ghost towns 99% of the time and use three tone. If ghost towns were littered with iron only then two tone would be a great option. A good example is taking a zinc penny and put it on Monte's Nail Board test. Run the test in three tone and then again in two tone and listen to the audio responses. Two tone mode/audio really makes the penny stand out from the nails. But it's not a perfect world. In all the ghost towns I hunt there is along with all the nails/iron, there is also a whole bunch of rusted tin pieces and three tone then becomes the best choice. The three tone audio nuances ( duck squawk etc ) helps in fighting all the rusted tin.

Generally rusted tin will have jumpy VDI numbers. So a lot of the time the numbers jump from a mid tone VDI number to a high tone VDI number and you get the " duck squawk" sound. In the two tone mode you have a low tone-iron and a high tone-non ferrous. In those rusted tin infested ghost towns you are essentially stuck with one tone, the high tone if using the two tone mode.

But I agree, if your old site mainly/only consists of iron than the two tone audio can give you an advantage at finding/unmasking the non-ferrous targets from the iron. But litter that same site with a bunch of rusted tin pieces, then it's a whole different ballgame.

Maybe Monte will see this. He is far better than I at trying to explain something. In my head, I know what I wanna say, but by the time I type it on the screen....it ends up being a different story :)



Makro Racer & Racer 2
Nokta Fors CoRe
Whites M6



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2017 06:09AM by OregonGregg.

Re: 2 tones for me
Posted by: oleterryg
Date: July 28, 2017 11:49AM
On my first extended hunt with my new R Racer, I liked the 2 tone best. My ears are attuned to 1 tone, so 2 tone was a big change.
Not a lot of chatter.
ID at 21, and this was on your advice, Gregg.
Gain at 80.
I know one thing, it sure id's the pennys. It don't miss um.

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Re: 2 tones for me
Posted by: OregonGregg
Date: July 28, 2017 12:20PM
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oleterryg
and this was on your advice, Gregg.

LOL following my advice might lead ya down the wrong road :tongue:

I am pretty much referring to old iron/rusted tin filled ghost towns etc. But yes I agree the 2 tone mode outside of that type of site is prob the best way to go. Also 2 tone is supposed to be a deeper mode than the 3 tone mode and you have the VCO audio in 2 tone.



Makro Racer & Racer 2
Nokta Fors CoRe
Whites M6

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Re: 2 tones for me
Posted by: Kapok
Date: July 28, 2017 02:23PM
Gregg, I can identify with that rusted tin squawk sound. There are big slabs of that around too.

What turned me onto 2 tones was, when I'd get a signal that was a bit jumpy but definitely worth digging, I'd check it in 3 tones and often the signal would sound and read much less diggable, or it wouldn't be there at all.

But I'm still learning this detector, and I'm sure I'll find other places where my current tactics have to be changed up. But that's the fun of the hobby, that, and having such a flexible unit to work with.



Ridding the world of pulltabs, one plug at a time | Makro Racer 2 | Minelab Explorer SE

Sometimes it takes a bit extra time afield to come to agreement with some functions,
Posted by: Monte
Date: July 28, 2017 03:17PM
and many people nowadays have become so used to a multitude of tones with many different models, they are a little sluggish when it comes to being comfortable with just two tones. It also depends on the audio tones the detector makers use to for their tone ranges.

There are some newer models on the market from Nokta/Makro competitors that seem to have audio tones that are just a little 'muddy' to me. I've had some multi-tone audio models that I never liked with all the tones they offered, and only a couple of them had a decent 2-Tone audio that I came to rely on. Single tones still were often preferred just because many detector models were not engineered with acceptable audio tones ... at least for me and my hearing.

Then along came Nokta with the FORS CoRe and they had an instant convert! I really like BOTH the 2-Tone audio and 3-Tone audio Discriminate modes, and the soon-to-follow Makro Racer had very close audio tone performance. Better than the detectors I had been using and they were soon replaced and I maintain my favorite detectors models for my Regular-Use Team, and my Nokta and Makro devices have grown.


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Kapok
I have completely bonded with two tones now on my R2. When I first got it, I used only 3 tones since I thought 2 was too noisy. But after spending many hours with it this summer, I now almost exclusively run 2 tones with the ID filter at 3-5.
It looks like you're starting your 41st year of detecting this summer Scott (starting in the summer of 1977), and I'm sure that by now you've come to learn and appreciate good audio tones and target responses. Along with my Nokta FORS CoRe and FORS Relic, which each have very clear and functional audio tones for their 2-Tone and 3-Tone modes

But my Racer 2 and new Nokta Impacts also provide me the opportunity to tweak the Audio Tone adjustment for each mode for the best, and more pleasurable, Audio Tone (aka pitch or frequency) that I can hear well and that help alert me to targets within the different conductivity ranges they provide. That's one of the better features on the Racer 2 and one I especially enjoy using on my Impact models.

That made using all modes better for me, and with the Nokta/Makro devices I still prefer 2-Tone audio modes for the bulk of my open-site searches; for working areas with low-to-modest trash that is mainly nails or similar, easy-to-deal-with, ferrous junk; and especially when I am hunting with a mid-sized to standard-size search coil mounted. 2-Tone Audio is by far the cleanest and most useful auto tone for finding non-ferrous targets in dense iron nails contaminated sites, or if dealing with similar wire-iron types of debris.


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Kapok
Even in thick iron, it is surprisingly stable, and I am willing to accept the little extra sparkiness in 2 tones in return for the added sensitivity and depth. And hearing the iron helps me separate out the good stuff from surrounding junk.
I know we will all have our own opinions of what is "thick iron" littered places and "sparse" or "modest" iron trash, and I can guarantee you that these detectors work very well when the iron junk gets challenging. As it occurs, I immediately am working in and amongst the iron using a smaller size search coils because "thick" or "dense" iron nails where I usually sweep a coil is VERY dense and challenging.

Many people just Discriminate all common iron with a setting at the ferrous/non-ferrous break point, but I also like to work in a 2-Tone or 3-Tone mode so I can hear the presence of iron. That way I will be alerted and can slowly and methodically work my coil around the iron trash in search of a partially masked non-ferrous target.


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Kapok
The more I use the Racer 2 and learn its nuances, the more I love it.
Yep! It's hard not to develop a liking for the Racer 2. :thumbup:


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Kapok
In high trash, the 5x4.5" coil is so good, and deeper than I thought it would be.
The Racer 2 is just 'deeper' regardless of the coil used, but both of the smaller-size DD coils are quite surprising in the depth-of-detection category. Even though my Racer 2 Pro Pack came with the round 5¼" DD coil, I keep it on a spare lower rod. It does provide a little different performance than the slightly smaller 4.7X5.2 'OOR' DD coil, but I found the 'OOR' coil very "eye appealing" and enjoy the performance and depth in the very trashy sites I work and it stays mounted to my Racer 2 the bulk of the time.


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Kapok
I picked out these two coins from fist-sized underlying chunks of iron.
A very doable task for the Racer 2, and congrats on your success! :clapping:


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Kapok
The side story is I bought a used Explorer SE and am supposed to be learning it this summer, but I keep find myself putting it back in the car and grabbing my little R2.
Here's a hint: http://www.findmall.com/list.php?44 A great place to show off your Explorer SE and get a little more elbow room. :wink:


Now my thoughts on the Makro and Nokta detectors and how and why I enjoy them when hunting in dense iron littered sites. With my CoRe and Relic, Impact and Racer 2 models that have their smallest coils mounted full-time, they are all ready to turn-on in the 3-Tone Di3 mode. Is 2-Tone audio a better mode choice when hunting in iron? Yes, it can be, if the main iron targets are nails and smaller solid-iron objects, and also when the amount or iron is minimal and well spaced. As I stated earlier, I rely on 2-Tone Discriminate modes almost exclusively when using a mid-sized or standard-to-larger size search coil for the simple reason that non-ferrous targets just sort of jump out at you in an iron contaminated site.

But 95% of the time it is the 3-Tone Di3 mode I am using, along with a small-size search coil, when hunting the most difficult sites I concentrate on. Those are mainly ghost towns, homesteads, old pioneer and military encampment sites, fort sites, stage stops and railroad depots, and I can't forget logging camps, gold mining camps and towns sites ... and the list could go on about old, out-of-use locations where there is a lot of building rubble complemented by discarded ferrous trash.

And the biggest annoyance when hunting these places isn't rusty nails, railroad spikes or other similar junk. It is the thin 'sheet metal' better known as 'rusty tin.' Oregon Gregg expressed his preference for working in Di3, and the main challenge at the sites we hunt is rusty tin. While a 2-Tone search mode can still work okay, I prefer, as Gregg has found, that Di3's 'processed' audio can be very telling and help to audibly recognize, and classify, probable rusty tin debris. I hear a better tell-tale low-tone audio most of the time as the small coil just starts to encounter and then just as it departs rusty tin and similar forms of 'sheet iron', and it is much more discernible, for me and many I know, than any of the 2-Tone Disc. modes can provide.

Other iron stuff, okay we might call it a toss-up on Tone ID preference, but I give the nod to Di3 when encountering a lot of sheet iron, and in those cases it is the smaller coils that are being used. The other great design feature of the Racer 2 and Impact is that you can easily switched from one more to another and back again with minimal effort or time loss. When working smaller coils, in dense iron, and using Di3, it's quick to switch to a Di2 or another 2-Tone mode to quickly cross-check a probable good target signal. That was one of the reasons the Racer 2 appealed to me as there is no mistaking a good target signal in iron trash, but Di3 can help audibly 'classify' a lot of rusty tin.

Like all modes and functions, it might take some field time to learn it and adapt to the 'duck squawk' audio it can sometimes produce.

Monte



"Your EYES ... the only 100% accurate form of Discrimination!"

Stinkwater Wells
Trading Post

Metal Detector Evaluations and Product Reviews
'How-To' help for Coin & Jewelry Hunting, Relic Hunting and Useful Techniques.

My Regular-Use Detectors:
Nokta:
Impact, FORS Relic and FORS CoRe (Using mainly the 'OOR', 5", 4X7½, 5X9½ open-frame DD's or 7" Concentric coils as needed. Other coils on-hand.)
Tesoro:
Vaquero, Silver Sabre µMAX and Mojave (With either a 6" or 7" Concentric coil in use, or maybe 8X11 DD on the Vaquero.)

Other Specialty Use Detectors from:
Compass, Makro, Nokta, Tesoro and White's
Note: Detectors are listed alphabetically by Brand, NOT in my order of preference for use. Additional search coils on-hand in accessory bags.

Pinpointers: Using Nokta and Makro Pointers.
Headphones: Using the Killer B 'Hornet'.

*** All working well today to make memories for tomorrow. ***

monte@stinkwaterwells.com .. or .. monte@ahrps.org
(503) 481-8147


Re: Sometimes it takes a bit extra time afield to come to agreement with some functions,
Posted by: oleterryg
Date: July 28, 2017 03:34PM
Monte, what are your feelings about the brand new 7" round concentric coil? Makro just posted today of the coil for the Racers and the Impact.

Personally, I am delighted. IIn my short MD career I favor the concentrics for my area here in SW Georgia.

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Re: Sometimes it takes a bit extra time afield to come to agreement with some functions,
Posted by: Kapok
Date: July 28, 2017 04:46PM
Thank you for your detailed reply, Monte. I'm always glad when I see your posts and read them carefully--sometimes over and over. I might just take you up on the "elbow room" hint. I just spent $200 having the Minelab shipped to England to repair a blown PCB. So needless to say, my foray into the FBS world has not been great. But 90% of the people in my group are swinging e-tracs, and they all swear by them. So maybe it's just not my style, or maybe they're better for relatively clean grassy parks or beaches.



Ridding the world of pulltabs, one plug at a time | Makro Racer 2 | Minelab Explorer SE

Terry, I have a bit longer MD 'career,' and have used
Posted by: Monte
Date: July 28, 2017 06:57PM
many different search coil types, from single loop coils for the BFO's since early '65, to quite a few interesting looking coil winding layouts up until my first DD coils in '71 from Compass. Since '71 there were a couple of stacked coils and a few unique designs, but Concentric coils won out most of the time, but there have still be a lot of Double-D coils on the working end of the rod.

What many Hobbyists don't realize or appreciate is that there can often be a particular size, shape or type of search coil (Concentric or DD) that works well, but the main reason is the detector circuitry design the coil is working with. Some detectors just are not impressive with one type but great performers with the other. In this case, many users of some newest models from Nokta and Makro have the option of getting a new Concentric design for their detector outfit.

My conversations about a Concentric coil go back to early 2015 when I discussed my wish for a Concentric coil for the FORS CoRe. Still would like to have one. The Relic came out a year-and-a-half-ago and I do have a 5½X10 Concentric on one of mine, but still wish there was a Concentric in the 6" to 7" size. I know I stressed a Concentric in this size range with Dilek in January to March for the new Impact, and it looks like those wishes have finally been answered.

Some will wish for a smaller size and others might want one larger. Both could be good ideas and possibly there will be enough demand down-the-road for that to happen. For now, however, just seeing the size and design of this new 7" Concentric coil for the Impact and Racer 2 is a wonderful thing, and I have a feeling the 7" diameter size will make a perfect fit for most types of recreational metal detecting needs.

This might make a regular-use coil assignment change on my Makro Racer 2 that I especially grab for a lot of urban Coin Hunting, and I know it will see some regular-use time on one of my Nokta Impacts. There are a lot of detector manufacturers who have to wake up and see what the Nokta/Makro group are doing, quickly and effectively, to produce and provide detectors and useful accessory search coils in such an amazing time. I happily join the group of us who have hoped for and wished for a Concentric coil from Nokta/Makro ... and they delivered.

Monte



"Your EYES ... the only 100% accurate form of Discrimination!"

Stinkwater Wells
Trading Post

Metal Detector Evaluations and Product Reviews
'How-To' help for Coin & Jewelry Hunting, Relic Hunting and Useful Techniques.

My Regular-Use Detectors:
Nokta:
Impact, FORS Relic and FORS CoRe (Using mainly the 'OOR', 5", 4X7½, 5X9½ open-frame DD's or 7" Concentric coils as needed. Other coils on-hand.)
Tesoro:
Vaquero, Silver Sabre µMAX and Mojave (With either a 6" or 7" Concentric coil in use, or maybe 8X11 DD on the Vaquero.)

Other Specialty Use Detectors from:
Compass, Makro, Nokta, Tesoro and White's
Note: Detectors are listed alphabetically by Brand, NOT in my order of preference for use. Additional search coils on-hand in accessory bags.

Pinpointers: Using Nokta and Makro Pointers.
Headphones: Using the Killer B 'Hornet'.

*** All working well today to make memories for tomorrow. ***

monte@stinkwaterwells.com .. or .. monte@ahrps.org
(503) 481-8147


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Re: Sometimes it takes a bit extra time afield to come to agreement with some functions,
Posted by: Kapok
Date: July 28, 2017 09:18PM
Quote

It looks like you're starting your 41st year of detecting this summer Scott (starting in the summer of 1977)

Indeed, Monte! Here is me with my Compass Yukon Nugget TR in the summer of 1977. I found so much with that detector, but then it was much easier then, wasn't it? We lived on the grounds of an old resort--it was like a coin hunter's paradise. It would make a good story sometime.



Ridding the world of pulltabs, one plug at a time | Makro Racer 2 | Minelab Explorer SE




Re: Terry, I have a bit longer MD 'career,' and have used
Posted by: oleterryg
Date: July 29, 2017 05:35AM
I tried to order the 7" , yesterday, but was told by a vendor that I would have to wait until they receive their stock.

Re: Terry, I have a bit longer MD 'career,' and have used
Posted by: oleterryg
Date: July 29, 2017 09:32AM
Monte, thank you for your response to my question. This morning I hunted with my Red Racer, with a 5x10" DD. Just purchased the coil used. As I was digging targets, my mind was on the 7" concentric. Pinpointing will be 100% quicker and accurate, not to mention lighter.
Excited about this new coil.

Re: Terry, I have a bit longer MD 'career,' and have used
Posted by: Sonnyd
Date: July 30, 2017 08:08AM
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oleterryg
I tried to order the 7" , yesterday, but was told by a vendor that I would have to wait until they receive their stock.

I've been using the NEL Sharp DD on my Red Racer.... I'm really thinking about the 7" concentric too.. Let us know, when they finally accept your order request.. I Love the 5.5x10 concentric on my Relic... I'm sure this new Concentric for the Racer is going to be excellent.....

Re: 2 tones for me
Posted by: oleterryg
Date: July 30, 2017 11:43AM
I sure will. I'm going to call Bill Ladd, the Racer expert, at metaldetector.com, tomorrow.

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