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Red Racer vid
Posted by: oleterryg
Date: July 29, 2017 06:06PM
I've now had two good hunts with my new Red Racer.
I am not a "dig everything " type of guy. Arthritis.
So far I have avoided digging anything in the 70's, even if the sound is solid.
So, what am I missing?

Re: Red Racer vid
Posted by: Sonnyd
Date: July 30, 2017 07:54AM
Quote
oleterryg
I've now had two good hunts with my new Red Racer.
I am not a "dig everything " type of guy. Arthritis.
So far I have avoided digging anything in the 70's, even if the sound is solid.
So, what am I missing?

Well, my Very first outing with my Red Racer, in the first 45 minutes I found a 10K Gold class ring... solid 60... I have Arthritis too, and am just getting older at 68 years old.. But if it's a Solid signal, I pretty much dig it, unless I'm just Cherry pickin'

Re: Red Racer vid
Posted by: oleterryg
Date: July 30, 2017 08:16AM
Sixty, huh? I remember getting a solid 60. I wasn't digging 60's or 70's. Very much, as you say, Cherry picking.

You know what, early one morning I'm going back to the same area and not dig any zink signals, but dig the 60-78.

Re: Red Racer vid
Posted by: iqwozpoom
Date: July 31, 2017 11:13PM
Sometimes jewelry, other times corroded pennies in heavily fertilized lawns.

I also deal with terribly annoying arthritis and
Posted by: Monte
Date: August 01, 2017 09:28AM
a bad back and knee, but I still mainly rely on the Audio response more than Visual assistance.

I still take a look at my VDI (Visual Discrimination Indicator, a long-time industry term. 'vid' is what I consider a reference to a video) or Numeric TID read--out, but that's just to get a general idea of what I might be looking for during my recovery, seldom to make a Dig/No-Dig decision.

While modern Zinc Cents here in the US tend to read at ± '82' on the original Racer, we also have early Wheat-back Cents from 1909 to about 1920 that can fall in the same VDI range, as well as most Indian Head cents from late 1864 to 1909. If you mainly search modern sites, and your primary targets are modern coins that are laying relatively flat-to-the-coil and within the top 3" or so, and if you don't want modern Zinc cents that could read lower into the '70s,' then you can ignore those readings.

But I hunt modern-day sites that have been built over old-use locations, and I like to search older places, such as yards and old picnic groves and the like. Most of my time is devoted to searching ghost towns, homesteads, old campsites, stage stops, urban renovation work in older parts of towns, etc., etc. Therefore I like to find ALL desirable targets regardless of where in the non-ferrous VDI range they may fall. Older sites can mead older coins that will respond with a lower read-out, such as silver Half-Dimes, Flying Eagle Cents and early 'fatty' Indian Head Cents that followed.

How about both tiny silver 3¢ and bigger nickel-based 3¢ pieces as they have a lower VDI read-out? You could even get $2½, $5 and $10 gold coins fall into the '70s' or lower ranges. Then there are the desired targets, like silver coins, good copper coins or we can even include the lower conductive 5¢ coins, any of them, that will not provide a 'proper' visual VDI numeric read-out because they are:

• too deep
• at a canted angle
• in bad, challenging ground minerals
• lost with, and close to, other denomination coins causing a blended VDI response
• close to a Discriminated target (such as iron, foil and so forth) that is close to them and partially masking them and degrading/masking their VDI read-out

Or the targets in the '70s' or another numeric category might also be desirable, such as a nice Trade Token or a worthwhile piece of gold or silver jewelry.

If I get a very erratic TID response, or one that has a lot of iron audio tone to it as well, I might often ignore recovery presuming it to be a piece of ferrous-based junk. It's a gut feeling call to make, but site conditions often suggest when it is a good decision. I concluded a good while back that the health issues that slow me down can be a good thing, so I just take my timer and hunt more slowly and methodically, but I'll gladly recover any good-sounding targets that seem to be a narrower, coin-sized object regardless of the VDI read-out. If it sounds good and locks on reasonably well, I go after it.

Monte



"Your EYES ... the only 100% accurate form of Discrimination!"

Stinkwater Wells
Trading Post

Metal Detector Evaluations and Product Reviews
'How-To' help for Coin & Jewelry Hunting, Relic Hunting and Useful Techniques.

My Regular-Use Detectors:
Nokta: Impact, FORS Relic and FORS CoRe
Tesoro: Vaquero, Silver Sabre µMAX and Mojave
White's: MX-7
Note: Detectors are listed alphabetically by Brand, and chosen as desired based on search site conditions.
Additional search coils. mounted on spare lower-rods, are on-hand in my accessory coil tote.
Pinpointers: Using Nokta and Makro Pointers.
Headphones: Using White's Pro Star w/'tank style' ear cups.
Recovery Tools: Using White's Ground Hawg Shovel and DigMaster digging tools.

*** All working well today to make memories for tomorrow. ***

monte@stinkwaterwells.com .. or .. monte@ahrps.org
(503) 481-8147


Re: I also deal with terribly annoying arthritis and
Posted by: oleterryg
Date: August 01, 2017 12:08PM
Now Monte, that was what I call a great post. Thank you Very much. I'm learning.

So, using the Racer, some good stuff rings up in the 70s? Yesterday, I dug two very solid 78s. Bottle caps. I'll be listening for the sound more from now on.

So, using the Racer, some good stuff rings up in the 70s?
Posted by: Monte
Date: August 02, 2017 06:13AM
Quote
oleterryg
Now Monte, that was what I call a great post. Thank you Very much. I'm learning.
Hey, we are ALL "always learning." I just try to help, when I can, and try not to offend anyone if possible. One thing for sure, you have a very good detector to be learning with. :thumbup:


Quote
oleterryg
Yesterday, I dug two very solid 78s. Bottle caps. I'll be listening for the sound more from now on.
Bottle Caps ... one of the most annoying trash targets many Coin Hunters encounter. A ferrous or magnetic-based junk metal that man processed and formed into a more conductive shape just to annoy folks like us who like to go detecting instead of golfing or bird watching. Almost as easy to 'classify' and ignore today as they were back in '71 for me, although we all have to keep in mind that all forms of Discrimination, be it audible or visual TID, can fool us from time-to-time and nothing is 100%.

I am working on lining up a place for a Metal Detector & Metal Detecting Seminar this fall, and among the many topics I will touch on in the full-day classroom training will be problem targets such as Bottle Caps and similar discarded iron-based annoyances and how to deal with them. Like everything else in this great sport, the more we rely on some 'modern' features, the less we tend to recover and our overall success rate can be impaired. In short ... we will miss more good stuff.

I worked a vacant lot a while back where there was an old and decaying house. The yard was partly torn up by a tiller or plow and some adjacent road work, and I dig all sorts of targets that produced a very clean and stable VDI read-out similar to a Clad Dime, Silver Dime, Clad or Silver Quarter, and a couple that mimicked a Half-Dollar. That was with a reputable brand/model detector at the time. These were all in the '82' to '94' VDI ranges, yet not one was a coin, and many were not even coin-sized. Just junk.

Near the sidewalk, just off the edge that once was the adjacent grassy area, there were a couple of read-outs in the upper '70' range, and both were early Wheat-Back cents. Why? Possibly worn, possibly canted, but also more probably they were too close to the cement sidewalk and that likely masked the targets true identity a bit. But their VDI read-out was reasonably tight and consistent, and they didn't have the tell-tale low-tone Iron Audio before and after the coil encounter.

Also, when I question a potential iron target, to include annoying Bottle Caps, I use the EPR technique I have been using, and teaching others, since the early/mid-'70s. No, not 100% reliable, but in many 'typical' or 'average' situations it can be very useful. When I was the Marketing Rep and Dealer Coordinator for a different manufacturer back in '87-'89, I was evaluating a new '3-filter' detector they were coming out with, and joining a local detecting club I was in on an outing to an old picnic grove that had been out-of-use for a couple of decades where we had permission to hunt that day. I wanted to: A.. Find as many older coins as possible, including silver, and B.. I knew Bottle Caps would be plentiful as the site was used prior to the coming of the pull-tabs. (Sure wish I could find more places like that!)

It was also an opportunity to check out the field performance of the new model they were just starting to release and see if the Tone ID and the needle-meter display were working well. Everyone else had their own 'other brand' detectors with VDI read-out, with one being an LCD type display and all the rest relying on the needle-meter type. Two fellows hunted close behind and I noticed they were watching to see how I might do and how the new detector worked.

I had recovered a couple of coins that gave me a lock-on VDI response, then encountered a target that sounded pretty good, but the TID was not all that tight or steady. I suspected it to be a Bottle Cap, so I just used 'Quick-Out' and 'EPR' techniques which I have used since '71/'72 and instruct, and I got a very solid Iron TID response and audio rejection. I recovered it to verify, dropped it in my pouch, and continued to hunt. Maybe four target hits later was another suspected Bottle Cap, so I once again checked the detector's performance, got an Iron visual read-out, then recovered it, put it in my pouch, and decided I would then ignore all other suspect Bottle Caps and concentrate on finding the Mercury and very early Roosevelt silver dimes that were in a mix with Wheat-Back cents and periodic Nickels. Even a shiny Quarter from time-to-time.

As I made my recoveries I had noticed that those two fellows kept following a short distance behind me, keeping a watch on my search and recoveries. Well, I continued, and when I got a hit I would take just a moment or two to sweep and re-sweep the target, using 'Quick-Out' and 'EPR' techniques, and I if determined they were suspected Bottle Caps or other ferrous trash, I moved on searching for coins. There were MANY Bottle Caps at that old picnic grove that saw a lot of activity in its heyday, and I was now keeping a side glimpse of those two fellows as they followed. When they saw me get a signal, sweep the coil several times to check it out and move on, they moved in and found the targets and recovered them.

After we all hunted for awhile, close to an hour, these two guys came up and asked me why I wasn't digging all those signals I was getting and walked away from them? They were all good signals, if swept just right and not verified, and I told them they were all Bottle Caps. They ought to know because they recovered them all. They verified that I was correct, and asked me how I could tell? I then proceeded to tell them that I was ignoring Bottle Caps and other likely iron because we had only a 1-day access to this old, closed-down picnic grove and I wanted to maximize my recoveries by keying in on coins and ignoring probable iron junk.

Also, that typically, the majority of Bottle Caps we encounter are located anywhere from surface to just 1" to 2" deep. Yes, in some places, after ample grass build-up or leafage buildup over time a BC can be deeper to 3" or maybe even 4"-5" in a more extreme case, but the bulk of them are shallower. Because they are shallower my techniques of 'Quick-Out' and especially 'EPR' are going to be far more reliable at audibly (and even visually) 'classifying' Bottle Cps as an Iron target to be ignored.

And since they were inquisitive enough to ask why I wasn't digging the Bottle Caps that they were, and that I also felt kind of bad for them because by then I had a pretty impressive handful of older coins, including shiny silver, and only those first two BC's in my pouch, I demonstrated the two techniques to them. The rest of that day I continued to find more coins, didn't spend my time keeping a watch on them following me being inquisitive, and they spent it learning how to avoid probable Bottle Caps and also came out ahead of the average when it came to coin recoveries compared with BC's in their finds pouch.

I hope to get some training videos worked up and readied on one of my websites, but that's after I find someone good at filming things in an outdoor environment and I get a You Tube set-up worked out. By then, however, I am sure you'll pick up on different search techniques and also become more comfortable with the Makro Racer which is a very capable performer. Best of success to you.

Monte



"Your EYES ... the only 100% accurate form of Discrimination!"

Stinkwater Wells
Trading Post

Metal Detector Evaluations and Product Reviews
'How-To' help for Coin & Jewelry Hunting, Relic Hunting and Useful Techniques.

My Regular-Use Detectors:
Nokta: Impact, FORS Relic and FORS CoRe
Tesoro: Vaquero, Silver Sabre µMAX and Mojave
White's: MX-7
Note: Detectors are listed alphabetically by Brand, and chosen as desired based on search site conditions.
Additional search coils. mounted on spare lower-rods, are on-hand in my accessory coil tote.
Pinpointers: Using Nokta and Makro Pointers.
Headphones: Using White's Pro Star w/'tank style' ear cups.
Recovery Tools: Using White's Ground Hawg Shovel and DigMaster digging tools.

*** All working well today to make memories for tomorrow. ***

monte@stinkwaterwells.com .. or .. monte@ahrps.org
(503) 481-8147


Re: Red Racer vid
Posted by: oleterryg
Date: August 02, 2017 09:52AM
Monte, thank you very much for what posted. Wow. Good stuff that many of us can use out there while we seek treasure.

It makes me wonder what you and so many others who have been in this hobby/lifestyle, for a zillion years, where you got all your information. NO INTERNET back then.

Re: Red Racer vid
Posted by: D&P-OR
Date: August 06, 2017 05:21AM
Through the school of "hard knocks"!------The BEST TEACHER of all!!
Quote
oleterryg
Monte, thank you very much for what posted. Wow. Good stuff that many of us can use out there while we seek treasure.

It makes me wonder what you and so many others who have been in this hobby/lifestyle, for a zillion years, where you got all your information. NO INTERNET back then.


Re: Red Racer vid
Posted by: Pedlar mills
Date: August 06, 2017 08:07AM
Keith southern relics 1864 I think on YouTube has a video of learning the audio of bottle caps on the racer that helped me a lot it's kinda of a scratchy then clean then scratchy audio report worth finding and watching

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