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Re: The Multi-Frequency mode...
Posted by: Beyonder
Date: September 19, 2017 10:58AM
Quote
sgoss66
For me, that is the REAL question on this unit. The details regarding the multi-frequency mode.

User-selectable frequencies for different conditions, super. All frequency options running through the same coil, super. FAST recovery, super. LIGHTWEIGHT, super. Wireless, super. Lithium long-life battery, super. Etc. etc. I am loving these things that the Equinox will offer. I am confident it will do each of these things very well, up to Minelab standards. But, I truly believe that if this machine wants to be a game-changer, what will push it over the top will have to come from the performance of the multi-frequency mode. Short of that, it's likely to be on a much more level playing field with machines like the Deus, etc. Sure, it will compete, and the lower price point will help it compete strongly, but for me to #1 -- choose this INSTEAD of the Deus, or other similar fast, lightweight, good-in-iron units, and #2 -- have my Explorer pried from my hands, Minelab will have to pull me in specifically with the performance of the multi-frequency mode. As a person who primarily "turf hunts" for deep, old coins, I NEED the performance that FBS affords to be successful -- that being unmatched ID (numerical and tonal), through the entire depth capability of the unit. IF -- IF -- the multi-frequency mode on this unit is FBS-based, or at least performs equal to, or even a tad better than, FBS-style multi-frequency technology -- in terms of depth, and ID at depth, I'M IN.

In other words, if this unit does everything that it looks like it will do, AND -- hitting the multi-frequency mode button puts you in "FBS mode," where you are essentially running an improved version of the Explorer/E-Trac (including Explorer/E-Trac tones, and FE and CO numbers on the screen), then Minelab will likely have hit a "grand slam," in my opinion.

I doubt the multi-frequency mode will be "FBS," or even "FBS-like." But however it works, I truly believe that how this mode performs for deep-coin hunters in turf is what will be the one thing that pushes this unit over the edge, to truly "make all single-frequency VLF units obsolete," as their marketing strategy claims...

PLEASE, Minelab, while the machine is still in "pre-release" stages, PLEASE use FBS technology for your "multi-frequency" mode, and give us an FE/CO number plus Explorer/E-Trac sounds in that mode...

EVEN IF you incorporate this idea into a "1000" model -- the 600 without prospecting mode, the 800 with, and the 1000 which adds "FBS multifrequency mode," and price that one at say $850 to $900...I'm IN!

PLEASE, Minelab....

Steve

That little adjustment would push this product back about two years. The numbers weren't finalized. It could be a whole new number system.

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Re: The Multi-Frequency mode...
Posted by: Champ Ferguson
Date: September 19, 2017 11:03AM
Quote
Jason in Enid
The factory info put out says that it uses 2 simultaneous circuits. One is a multifreq that is constantly measuring mineralization and making adjustments for that. The other circuit is the single freq detecting channel.

Ground minerals are the number 1 limiting factor on detection depth (like when you can air test to 3 feet but nothing remotely close to that in the ground). If they have improved ground compensation of the multifreqs (the biggest killer of single freq detectors) while still allowing the speed of single freq channel analysis (which is what they seem to be saying) then yes, this will make all conventional single freq detectors obsolete.

I mean, think about it. What has everyone been complaining about for years? they complain that minelab multifreqs are too slow to analyse and require too slow of swing speeds. Everyone love how fast the single freqs are but they lack ground comp and they lack a lot of the analysis of co-located targets. Here we have a machine that may just bridge all those gaps. At the very least it seems you can flip back and forth in modes. E-Trac and CTX have been known as silver killers but lack that ability to see tiny or weak gold signals. 40K will stomp that problem.

Right now though, its all speculation since we can only see a few seconds of use from a couple people who got to test them. Once they hit the streets its going to be all sunshine and lolipop reports as everyone LOVES it. Give them a few months and we will see the truth come out. The problems will creep up, solutions will be discussed and discovered and then see how people still think of them a year later.


Easily one of the best posts I have read on this subject. I look forward to your opinions on the Equinox after you have had some time in the field.



Minelab CTX
Minelab Excalibur II
Minelab Safari

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Re: The Multi-Frequency mode...
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: September 19, 2017 12:23PM
Quote
Champ Ferguson
Quote
Jason in Enid
The factory info put out says that it uses 2 simultaneous circuits. One is a multifreq that is constantly measuring mineralization and making adjustments for that. The other circuit is the single freq detecting channel.

Ground minerals are the number 1 limiting factor on detection depth (like when you can air test to 3 feet but nothing remotely close to that in the ground). If they have improved ground compensation of the multifreqs (the biggest killer of single freq detectors) while still allowing the speed of single freq channel analysis (which is what they seem to be saying) then yes, this will make all conventional single freq detectors obsolete.

I mean, think about it. What has everyone been complaining about for years? they complain that minelab multifreqs are too slow to analyse and require too slow of swing speeds. Everyone love how fast the single freqs are but they lack ground comp and they lack a lot of the analysis of co-located targets. Here we have a machine that may just bridge all those gaps. At the very least it seems you can flip back and forth in modes. E-Trac and CTX have been known as silver killers but lack that ability to see tiny or weak gold signals. 40K will stomp that problem.

Right now though, its all speculation since we can only see a few seconds of use from a couple people who got to test them. Once they hit the streets its going to be all sunshine and lolipop reports as everyone LOVES it. Give them a few months and we will see the truth come out. The problems will creep up, solutions will be discussed and discovered and then see how people still think of them a year later.


Easily one of the best posts I have read on this subject. I look forward to your opinions on the Equinox after you have had some time in the field.

I agree, very good post from Jason. BUT -- I am not sure this is likely to be exactly correct. I would believe that they may be dealing with the ground mineralization with one or more frequencies, in multi-freq. HOWEVER, if you are running, say, 5kHz single freq., Park mode, while coin hunting, and then you switch to "multi-frequency" while in Park mode... the designer has already said that the frequencies used in multi-freq. Park mode will be "appropriate" for that mode, so let's say it's 5, 10, and 15 kHz. If the 10 and 15 kHz channels, lets say, are just for ground compensation, while 5 kHz is the "detecting channel," then WHY WOULD ANYONE EVER choose 5 kHz single freq., when you could choose multi-freq, still hunt at 5 kHz, but have the ground being compensated for in a superior way using other frequencies? I can't see why you'd ever WANT the single freq. 5 kHz, if it is set up the way Jason is suggesting. You'd ALWAYS want the ground compensated for in a more "robust" way using multi-frequencies, no? I HAVE TO BELIEVE, at this point, that the multi-freq. option uses algorithmic comparisons of at least two different frequencies (that are being used as "detecting" frequencies), and comparing the signal of those two to give a better, more accurate target ID, no?

Again just speculating, but I wonder...

Steve



Minelab CTX 3030
Minelab Explorer SE Pro
Garrett ProPointer AT
Lesche hand digger
Lesche 38D "King of Spades"

Norman, OK

Re: I would like to see a gold ring demo, those low numbers might not help with gold, right?N/T
Posted by: BigTony
Date: September 19, 2017 03:30PM

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BigTony

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Re: The Multi-Frequency mode...
Posted by: Jason in Enid
Date: September 19, 2017 04:26PM
Quote
sgoss66


I agree, very good post from Jason. BUT -- I am not sure this is likely to be exactly correct. I would believe that they may be dealing with the ground mineralization with one or more frequencies, in multi-freq. HOWEVER, if you are running, say, 5kHz single freq., Park mode, while coin hunting, and then you switch to "multi-frequency" while in Park mode... the designer has already said that the frequencies used in multi-freq. Park mode will be "appropriate" for that mode, so let's say it's 5, 10, and 15 kHz. If the 10 and 15 kHz channels, lets say, are just for ground compensation, while 5 kHz is the "detecting channel," then WHY WOULD ANYONE EVER choose 5 kHz single freq., when you could choose multi-freq, still hunt at 5 kHz, but have the ground being compensated for in a superior way using other frequencies? I can't see why you'd ever WANT the single freq. 5 kHz, if it is set up the way Jason is suggesting. You'd ALWAYS want the ground compensated for in a more "robust" way using multi-frequencies, no? I HAVE TO BELIEVE, at this point, that the multi-freq. option uses algorithmic comparisons of at least two different frequencies (that are being used as "detecting" frequencies), and comparing the signal of those two to give a better, more accurate target ID, no?

Again just speculating, but I wonder...

Steve

I think you missed understood what I wrote. From what I read, there are 2 things happening at the same time. 1 - you have a ground circuit using a multi-freq program sensing the ground minerals. 2 - you have a detecting circuit using a selectable single freq or a multifreq based on the mode you selected.

Re: The Multi-Frequency mode...
Posted by: Profit
Date: September 20, 2017 07:47PM
Great post OP. I concur and thought the same thing. One of the best things about fbs is the depth and the information it provides on what's in the ground at depth. Through the use of both the FE-CO scale and tonal information provided from multi-conductive sounds. So I'll be curious to see how the equinox matches up in that sense, I.D. at depth.

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Re: The Multi-Frequency mode...
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: September 20, 2017 08:27PM
Quote
Jason in Enid
Quote
sgoss66


I agree, very good post from Jason. BUT -- I am not sure this is likely to be exactly correct. I would believe that they may be dealing with the ground mineralization with one or more frequencies, in multi-freq. HOWEVER, if you are running, say, 5kHz single freq., Park mode, while coin hunting, and then you switch to "multi-frequency" while in Park mode... the designer has already said that the frequencies used in multi-freq. Park mode will be "appropriate" for that mode, so let's say it's 5, 10, and 15 kHz. If the 10 and 15 kHz channels, lets say, are just for ground compensation, while 5 kHz is the "detecting channel," then WHY WOULD ANYONE EVER choose 5 kHz single freq., when you could choose multi-freq, still hunt at 5 kHz, but have the ground being compensated for in a superior way using other frequencies? I can't see why you'd ever WANT the single freq. 5 kHz, if it is set up the way Jason is suggesting. You'd ALWAYS want the ground compensated for in a more "robust" way using multi-frequencies, no? I HAVE TO BELIEVE, at this point, that the multi-freq. option uses algorithmic comparisons of at least two different frequencies (that are being used as "detecting" frequencies), and comparing the signal of those two to give a better, more accurate target ID, no?

Again just speculating, but I wonder...

Steve

I think you missed understood what I wrote. From what I read, there are 2 things happening at the same time. 1 - you have a ground circuit using a multi-freq program sensing the ground minerals. 2 - you have a detecting circuit using a selectable single freq or a multifreq based on the mode you selected.

Ahh, gotcha Jason. I did misunderstand.

I can definitely see this. I agree that there would seem to be some kind of "ground circuit," and THEN, with that running in the background to "eliminate" mineralization, either the choice of a single-frequency detecting mode, or a multi-frequency detecting mode.

That makes sense.

Steve



Minelab CTX 3030
Minelab Explorer SE Pro
Garrett ProPointer AT
Lesche hand digger
Lesche 38D "King of Spades"

Norman, OK

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Re: The Multi-Frequency mode...
Posted by: Jackpine Savage
Date: September 22, 2017 06:36AM
Quote
Jason in Enid
Quote
sgoss66


I agree, very good post from Jason. BUT -- I am not sure this is likely to be exactly correct. I would believe that they may be dealing with the ground mineralization with one or more frequencies, in multi-freq. HOWEVER, if you are running, say, 5kHz single freq., Park mode, while coin hunting, and then you switch to "multi-frequency" while in Park mode... the designer has already said that the frequencies used in multi-freq. Park mode will be "appropriate" for that mode, so let's say it's 5, 10, and 15 kHz. If the 10 and 15 kHz channels, lets say, are just for ground compensation, while 5 kHz is the "detecting channel," then WHY WOULD ANYONE EVER choose 5 kHz single freq., when you could choose multi-freq, still hunt at 5 kHz, but have the ground being compensated for in a superior way using other frequencies? I can't see why you'd ever WANT the single freq. 5 kHz, if it is set up the way Jason is suggesting. You'd ALWAYS want the ground compensated for in a more "robust" way using multi-frequencies, no? I HAVE TO BELIEVE, at this point, that the multi-freq. option uses algorithmic comparisons of at least two different frequencies (that are being used as "detecting" frequencies), and comparing the signal of those two to give a better, more accurate target ID, no?

Again just speculating, but I wonder...

Steve

I think you missed understood what I wrote. From what I read, there are 2 things happening at the same time. 1 - you have a ground circuit using a multi-freq program sensing the ground minerals. 2 - you have a detecting circuit using a selectable single freq or a multifreq based on the mode you selected.

Steve I think you are very close. One thing I gleaned from watching videos is that in multi-freq the top 40Khz channel may not be the highest frequency it uses for analysis.



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Minelab Advantage, G2, Omega 8500, X-Terra 705, F75 DST and a Fisher ID Edge

Re: The Multi-Frequency mode...
Posted by: RC
Date: September 22, 2017 12:22PM
My deepest coin was 24 inches, a 1843 copper half penny. I used a Pulse machine. My VLF did not make a sound. I find that sometimes Minelab misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity

Re: The Multi-Frequency mode...
Posted by: Blank Planet
Date: September 22, 2017 09:02PM
they are obsessed with XP its blinding them..

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