Findmall.com
 
 






Minelab EQUINOX Forum


Welcome! Log In Register
Re: gentlemen gentlemen gentlemen
Posted by: Tom_in_CA
Date: September 24, 2017 10:30PM
Tyberoz, they're just playing devil's advocate to get conversation going .

Re: gentlemen gentlemen gentlemen
Posted by: Tyber0z
Date: September 24, 2017 10:31PM
Maybe so.

avatar
Re: gentlemen gentlemen gentlemen
Posted by: Jason in Enid
Date: September 25, 2017 07:54AM
Quote
Tom_in_CA
Tyberoz, they're just playing devil's advocate to get conversation going .

No, they're not.

Re: gentlemen gentlemen gentlemen
Posted by: dbado1
Date: September 25, 2017 03:21PM
Quote
Jason in Enid
Quote
Tom_in_CA
Tyberoz, they're just playing devil's advocate to get conversation going .

No, they're not.

Agreed. As was stated in a previous post...there are people that believe that everyone is out to trick or screw them. Can't fix them. It's just who they are. In my experience, they end up screwing themselves. They are always " late to the party" because they are overly cautious. The " I'm gonna wait 12 months before I purchase one" crowd is always, dare I say it, 12 months behind. It applies to all aspects of their lives. I have a brother who is like this so I know the trait well. Instead of looking for the positive reasons that the product may enhance their lives now, they look for any negatives, real or imagined, (and freely spread the negativity to all who will listen) with the goal of prolonging the decision. When they finally do make the decision to purchase they act like a child who has made his first potty in the toilet and expect everyone to be very excited for them ( 12 months late). They are not playing devil's advocate.

Dean

Re: gentlemen gentlemen gentlemen
Posted by: Tom_in_CA
Date: September 25, 2017 10:10PM
Quote
dbado1
Quote
Jason in Enid
Quote
Tom_in_CA
Tyberoz, they're just playing devil's advocate to get conversation going .

No, they're not.

Agreed. As was stated in a previous post...there are people that believe that everyone is out to trick or screw them..

Ok, granted. There are people "into conspiracy theories". Ok, so what ? It doesn't mean they "hate you personally " ? You can toy with them and spar intellectually to show them the "more plausible explanations". Maybe they'll wake up. But at no time are they "reason to bow out of forum discussion" or " reason to get mad", etc..... It's all just forum chit-chat.

Re: gentlemen gentlemen gentlemen
Posted by: dbado1
Date: September 25, 2017 11:53PM
Quote
Tom_in_CA
Quote
dbado1
Quote
Jason in Enid
Quote
Tom_in_CA
Tyberoz, they're just playing devil's advocate to get conversation going .

No, they're not.

Agreed. As was stated in a previous post...there are people that believe that everyone is out to trick or screw them..

Ok, granted. There are people "into conspiracy theories". Ok, so what ? It doesn't mean they "hate you personally " ? You can toy with them and spar intellectually to show them the "more plausible explanations". Maybe they'll wake up. But at no time are they "reason to bow out of forum discussion" or " reason to get mad", etc..... It's all just forum chit-chat.

Agreed, Tom. Who's mad or bowing out? I was making an observation based upon my personal experience with such people.
Unlike you, I don't try to wake them up any more. They are who they are and will always be that way... and that's o.k..

Dean



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2017 12:15AM by dbado1.

avatar
Re: Equinox iron trick?
Posted by: "Dr.Tones"
Date: October 01, 2017 12:17AM
Just an FYI. That little speed test video I made wasn't supposed to include iron. That rusty iron was a piece that I found two days before while making the test pits. I chucked it to the side and during that test another manufacturer brought it over and placed it. That's why you hear the crowd "oooooh!!!!". The test was only supposed to show you the recovery speed.



"X never, ever, marks the spot"
CTX 3030, pro find 25, Sampson "T" handle, Lesche trowel
Oldest US coin: 1693 William and Mary Half Penny

Re: Equinox iron trick?
Posted by: laplander
Date: October 01, 2017 06:42AM
Thanks Mate!

Re: Equinox iron trick?
Posted by: Charles (Upstate NY)
Date: October 01, 2017 04:44PM
You better connect your coil to an oscilloscope and have a look at the receive winding while its over that long piece of iron, it will be ugly. This is no parlor trick, that a detector can have its receive winding loaded like that with big iron and still hit on the coins that well, I guarantee you the receive winding was loaded huge with iron signal. You can tape a silver quarter to your coil on a motion detector and go detect with it. It won't give a signal on the silver quarter because its not in motion relative to the coil, but its loading up the receive winding nonetheless. Switch to non motion pinpoint mode it will howl like a stuck pig.

Which brings us to what the heck does a balanced coil even mean. Well its the path to extreme depth but that's another discussion. Balanced coils, DD, coplanar concentric, etc. precisely position the coil windings such that the coil is balanced, which means while the TX (Transmit) winding is blasting out a signal none of this transmitted signal is picked up by the RX (receive) winding. If you put your oscilloscope on RX if the coil is balanced it will read zero, flat line, no signal from TX.

If something disturbs this delectate balance a signal is picked up on RX and your detector responds. On a motion machine if you then stop moving the coil, the coil is not moving relative to the target, both stationary, after the initial response from the detector it settles down and returns to threshold, but RX remains loaded up with that signal.

I once purchased an aftermarket coil and it seemed to be performing poorly on depth. So I put this coil on my scope and found it was out of balance from the factory, and RX was loaded with some TX signal. How to bring a coil like that back in balance is again another discussion. There are also some tricks during coil construction used to precisely balance them, its a tricky process.

Anyway I would not dismiss the coins along the iron bar video as meaningless, just saying.

avatar
Re: Equinox iron trick?
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: October 02, 2017 03:54AM
Charles,

Do YOU know how to bring an "out of balance" coil back into balance? Is that something you personally know how to do?

Steve



Minelab CTX 3030
Minelab Explorer SE Pro
Garrett ProPointer AT
Lesche hand digger
Lesche 38D "King of Spades"

Norman, OK

Re: Equinox iron trick?
Posted by: Charles (Upstate NY)
Date: October 02, 2017 08:42AM
Quote
sgoss66
Charles,

Do YOU know how to bring an "out of balance" coil back into balance? Is that something you personally know how to do?

Steve

You can tape a small piece of ferrite to the coil, connect coil to oscilloscope so you monitor RX and see the out of balance, move the piece of ferrite around the coil, you can watch it either pull the coil more out of balance or drag it back into balance. Not a great solution but once a coil is constructed many/most are typically potted in epoxy and you have no access to the coil inside.

If you are building a coil you have more options. Some manufactures use a 2nd small winding of RX (think a few loops of magnet wire maybe 1 inch in diameter) you can move this small winding around the coil to fine tune the balance then epoxy into place.

Double D coils use two D shaped windings, as you can tell from Minelab coils these two windings overlaps each other down the center of the coil, it is this overlap that balances the coil. Overlap them just right and RX will read zero/flat line on the scope. Nudge them just a touch too far or too little in the overlap and RX will pick up the signal TX is transmitting. Sounds simple enough, but in practice its a real pain. Once you have the windings positioned you need to hold them in that exact position while the epoxy cures, which sometimes the curing pulls the windings overlap out of balance, its really touchy. This is why bumping a coil on something when detecting using higher sensitivity settings will cause the coil to false, it disturbs this balance.

I like the co-planer concentric coil design. Not used on Minelab VLF machines because DD coils gulp less mineralized soil vs concentric. But the concentric coil's cone shaped detection pattern is a great shape for sniping in heavy trash. I built one of these coils once for my Explorer. I dug a Indian cent with it, clean solid signal, nothing else, the plug had several piece of trash in it that I didn't hear. These coils have an outer round TX winding, an inner RX winding, and a 2nd center RX winding wound in the opposite direction. Its this center winding wound opposite, if you had just the right amount of loops of magnet wire that bring the coil into balance. So no overlap to be concerned with, the only pain building that coil is where that center winding wire exits in relation to the coil cable mine always wanted to be on the far side of the coil opposite the cable lol.

avatar
Re: Equinox iron trick?
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: October 02, 2017 09:46AM
Very, very interesting, Charles!

So, why is the "taping of ferrite" to the outside of the coil "not a great solution." I imagine you would improve the coil performance that way, if it were out of balance and you were balancing it, right?

Steve



Minelab CTX 3030
Minelab Explorer SE Pro
Garrett ProPointer AT
Lesche hand digger
Lesche 38D "King of Spades"

Norman, OK

Re: Equinox iron trick?
Posted by: Charles (Upstate NY)
Date: October 02, 2017 12:37PM
Quote
sgoss66
Very, very interesting, Charles!

So, why is the "taping of ferrite" to the outside of the coil "not a great solution." I imagine you would improve the coil performance that way, if it were out of balance and you were balancing it, right?

Steve

It has to be secured and not move, I suppose one could goop epoxy over the ferrite to secure/seal it in place. This is really a hack fix for those of us who build coils and one cures slightly out of balance. Manufactures can just pitch those on the trash pile but there's so much work in building your own coil the ferrite trick can work.

As for performance improvement a perfectly balanced coil vs one slightly out of balance, never really tested this one would need two of the exact same coils to do that. But as the vast majority of coils I have purchased over the years were all perfectly balanced and how difficult that is to achieve, I think logically its probably not good to have a coil even slightly out of balance with the TX signal riding on it otherwise manufacturers wouldn't go through the trouble of precisely balancing the coils.

Re: Equinox iron trick?
Posted by: Dale(Ia)
Date: October 02, 2017 03:47PM
Great stuff, Charles.........thank's for all the great info!

Iowa Dale

Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login