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Re: If any of the testers of the equinox read this forum, why don't you conduct a conclusive test of the machine?
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: September 24, 2017 03:43PM
One other point I will add -- testers (during prototype stage) are not there FOR US. They are not there to "prove" to "customers" that the machine works. They are there to tell the manufacturer of all the glitches/improvements that might be needed to a prototype machine.

AFTER RELEASE, of the production model of the unit, then DETECTORISTS will buy, and "test," the machines. THESE are the tests most of us are anxious to see. We are all waiting for trusted USERS of the new units to compare the performance of the machine, in hopefully well-constructed test scenarios to other, known machines for comparison purposes. I think what is getting confused here is the difference between a "field-tester" of a prototype machine, who is hired by the manufacturer for the specific purposes of helping to work the kinks/issues out of prototype versions of a unit, and a USER/PURCHASER of a machine, who seeks to test the performance of a new unit and share that information with other detectorists so that they can make informed purchase decisions.

Here's what I think...

I think Minelab has a machine that they are very happy with, and that they believe offers a new breakthrough in technology of some sort, that they really feel that detectorists will find valuable and will help them put more finds in the pouch. AND -- they realize that several new machines are coming to market now, or soon -- and SO, they put on this sort of "over the top" show at Detectival, hoping to achieve exactly what they have in fact achieved -- which is to generate "buzz" and "conversation" and "excitement" amongst detectorists, by informing us that they ALSO have a new machine that is coming, one that we might want to "wait a bit" on, before pulling the trigger on some other unit. And from that perspective, they HAD to let us know a LITTLE BIT about the machine, so that we could see what its potential MIGHT BE, compared to an AT Mas or any other soon-to-be-released machine. BUT, they can't show TOO MUCH, yet, as the machine is NOT in final form. They are counting on their reputation as a company, in the eyes of detectorists, trusting that they have built up enough credibility based on performance of their past detector releases, that we are willing to give them "the benefit of the doubt" for now, and give their new machine a chance once it's released. And from that perspective, it would be COLOSSALY DESTRUCTIVE to their company, and reputation, to do all of this, mention "new technology" that may "obsolete other technology," and yet actually release a piece of junk. I have faith that they won't do THAT. The machine will probably not exceed the performance of the CTX, or E-Trac, or possibly even the Deus, BUT, I trust it will be a very good machine that is very capable. As for the PROOF of that, I think patience is required until the machine is COMPLETED, and we have machines in the hands of trusted DETECTORISTS who will, hopefully, put them through proper "testing."

Steve



Minelab CTX 3030
Minelab Explorer SE Pro
Garrett ProPointer AT
Lesche hand digger
Lesche 38D "King of Spades"

Norman, OK



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/2017 03:52PM by sgoss66.

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Re: If any of the testers of the equinox read this forum, why don't you conduct a conclusive test of the machine?
Posted by: Southwind
Date: September 24, 2017 04:08PM
I disagree. If you put out a video that claims your new detector will make all single frequency detectors obsolete, you owe the buyers something to back up that claim. And I
m not taking getting to wait until it gets in the hnds of buyers before they need to prove the claim.

And Bryan I respectfully also disagree. They do indeed need to prove any claims to us if they plan on selling any. Would you buy a car without proof it even ran? I don't begin to insinuate that Minelab would be trying to deceive us. I just want to see some kind of proof to justify why I should by their detector over the hundreds of others available. I also wonder why none of these manufacturers would ask their testers to take this hot new revolutionary detector out to a dead site and put it to the test. This would be the first thing I would expect but everyone has to wait until these new detectors are bought and in the hands of the user to get this simple test done that would remove most of the doubt from potential buyers. Just that fact none do it make you suspicious of any "revolutionary" claims.

Let me ask you who have some time in swing a detector a simple question. If you were asked to be a testers what would be the first test you would try? Digging a hole and throwing a coin in? Building a nail board? No. You would head out to the nearest site that had produced good finds before and see if it can find what was missed. But that doesn't even seem to be on the to-do list of current testers.



The real treasure is in the hunt...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/2017 04:15PM by Southwind.

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Re: If any of the testers of the equinox read this forum, why don't you conduct a conclusive test of the machine?
Posted by: Jason in Enid
Date: September 24, 2017 05:11PM
Quote
Southwind

Let me ask you who have some time in swing a detector a simple question. If you were asked to be a testers what would be the first test you would try? Digging a hole and throwing a coin in? Building a nail board? No. You would head out to the nearest site that had produced good finds before and see if it can find what was missed. But that doesn't even seem to be on the to-do list of current testers.

Again, you are COMPLETELY missing the point. It doesnt matter what the tester do or dont do. THEY DONT REPORT TO US. Can that be made any clearer? They are volunteers who have signed non-disclosure agreements in exchange they get to play with the new toys and they tell the manufacturer what is good and bad about it. If they violate that ND paperwork, its going to be a very big lawsuit against them, so they arent going to say anything without clearance from the company. The inference from that, is that anyone who is a "tester" you see making statements, is actually being a company spokesman and shouldn't be considered an impartial user.

Re: If any of the testers of the equinox read this forum, why don't you conduct a conclusive test of the machine?
Posted by: Agseeker
Date: September 24, 2017 05:13PM
Interesting discussion. Seems to me Minelab is taking a major gamble announcing the Equinox while it's still a prototype. Looks like their sales could take a significant hit. After all, who's going to buy an Etrac or CTX 3030 now? I think most people will hold on to their money until the production version of the Equinox goes on sale and starts getting real life testing by real life users. On the other hand Minelab did us all a big favor. If Minelab had kept the Equinox a secret would you want to buy a 3030 and then have the Equinox come out a couple of weeks/months later?

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Re: If any of the testers of the equinox read this forum, why don't you conduct a conclusive test of the machine?
Posted by: OregonGregg
Date: September 24, 2017 05:23PM
Southwind, I think Minelab knows that their statement is more hype than anything.

if you go to the link, you get the hype but if you scroll further down they throw in there little "escape" clause so to speak.

if ya don't wanna go to the link, this is what they say:

EQUINOX, with Multi-IQ, has the potential to obsolete all the traditional VLF detectors that enthusiasts have been using for decades.” –Minelab Electronics Pty Ltd.

http://www.minelab.com/usa/customer-care/product-notices?article=319462

I think it's just another detector offering nice features. I would like to see its unmasking abilities in dense iron.....but I doubt it will do as good as a Nokta/Makro machine in that regard. It does offer a wide range of features giving you the ability to hunt quite a few different detecting environments and will probably do a good job. But will it do as good as job as a machine that is specific to a certain detecting task? I don't know.....however, time will tell fairly soon.



Makro Racer & Racer 2
Nokta Fors CoRe
Whites M6

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Re: If any of the testers of the equinox read this forum, why don't you conduct a conclusive test of the machine?
Posted by: Southwind
Date: September 24, 2017 05:52PM
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Again, you are COMPLETELY missing the point. It doesnt matter what the tester do or dont do. THEY DONT REPORT TO US. Can that be made any clearer?

No, you're missing the point. Let me try and make this as clear as I can for you.

I don't care that you think the testers job is to report to the manufacturer not the end user. Goody for you, we got that clear now? I'm talking about what I THINK they should do. Obviously we know what they do. Or we wouldn't be having this discussion. Is that clear enough?

THE POINT: I, and I'm sure there are others, would LIKE TO SEE testers that took a new detector out to that hard hit, cleaned out, dead site and put it to the test. Be those testers the alpha or omegas doesn't matter. Obviously the first testers are going to be testing to make sure the detector even turns on. I really don't think those would be you causal user but more people who reported directly to the manufacturer. Personally I would even call them testers although I guess technically they would be. I'm obviously talking about the *cough* "testers" who are sent out detectors for testing reviews. I would have thought this quite obvious, but I guess not. I am referring to the ones who come on here with videos and reviews that have been the same for the last 20 years With the same throw a coin in a hole, air test with a ruler, put some nails around a coin blah blah blah.

And I'm not talking about "final testers" who had to buy it to see what's in it.


None of the BS means squat to most other than being what the manufacturer must want. If I'm going to give up one of my detectors I am already familiar with and have a lot of money warped up in for some new earth shattering detector I want to see some real proof. Is that too much to ask? Show me the money and I'll buy it. Take it to the wild and pull the goods from a hard hit site and I guarantee you that detector will sell like hotcakes. If not, doesn't waste my time and money on another same as the last 50 detectors machine. In the wild will bring the cream to the top. It always has.

Oh, and your idea of a "final tester" is the buyer there is a big problem with the testing tree.



The real treasure is in the hunt...



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/2017 06:01PM by Southwind.

Re: If any of the testers of the equinox read this forum, why don't you conduct a conclusive test of the machine?
Posted by: dbado1
Date: September 24, 2017 06:50PM
SOS from the usual suspects.


Dean

Re: If any of the testers of the equinox read this forum, why don't you conduct a conclusive test of the machine?
Posted by: DigImust
Date: September 24, 2017 07:25PM
Is it accurate to state that there wasn't this much acrimony over the impending release of the CTX?

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Southwind, I guess I should have clarified what I meant by "testers"
Posted by: Greg (E.Tn)
Date: September 24, 2017 07:38PM
What I figured would/should happen is Minelab would get the Equinox in the hands of some of their UK/ European dealers to test, and this probably happened to a certain extent at Detectival. Hopefully, a few would trickle over to the states and end up in the hands of dealers here, who would give them a run.

Also, that the "testers" will be veteran Minelab users, well versed in the Minelab world, who run them through a variety of depth, mineralization, frequency, multi-frequency, salt, and micro-gold testing, etc.

Time will tell. :|

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Re: Southwind, I guess I should have clarified what I meant by "testers"
Posted by: lytle78
Date: September 24, 2017 07:50PM
Testers.

Engineering/prototype testers. These guys “work for” (maybe without pay) the manufacturer. They test prototypes and report no results to anyone else. They don’t talk about the process much, even after product release. They are bound by written nin-disclosure agreements which are enforcable in court.

Marketing Testers. These guys work for themselves. They are expected to use final or near final machines. They are free to publish theor results. Obviously if they jat the machine, their report might be recieved badly by the manufacturer, but it is out there. Suspicion always lingers that they sugar-coat their results to keep the “work” coming.

Nokta recently mixed the biz up a bit by “seeding” an unusual number of detectors to other than either of these two categories. It remains to be seen whether this will establish a pattern.

Minelab is famously “tight” about testing and has a “bright line” between development and marketing testing - as do the other established makers.

Who do you trust? I know some folks I do, perhaps you do as well. The others.... well, distrust of “expert” opinion has become a disease in our country, so finding someone who is “universally” trusted is tough. I could nominate one or two, but why start a food fight!



Rick Kempf

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Re: Southwind, I guess I should have clarified what I meant by "testers"
Posted by: lytle78
Date: September 24, 2017 08:42PM
Apologies for various typos. No edit button, so they will have to stay!



Rick Kempf

Re: If any of the testers of the equinox read this forum, why don't you conduct a conclusive test of the machine?
Posted by: Tyber0z
Date: September 24, 2017 08:51PM
We don't even have a release date and you're already insisting that Minelab is withholding information or that testers are dropping the ball. Why are you so cynical? Garrett only a few months ago announced a product unveiling, then unveiled the product, then started shipping and it wasn't until machines were shipped that we really saw demonstrations. This is a shitty practice but it doesn't mean anything is fishy. Brandon Neice already said he is currently editing Nox footage and to stand by. Not every tester, I imagine, is a YouTuber or videographer, and they're probably under NDA for now, so I don't see why people are so worked up about a lack of info or demos a mere EIGHT DAYS since the machine was unveiled. Seriously, you guys are going crazy with conspiracy theories and the batteries from Detectival have barely had time to recharge. RELAX.

Re: If any of the testers of the equinox read this forum, why don't you conduct a conclusive test of the machine?
Posted by: Tyber0z
Date: September 24, 2017 09:00PM
A lot has changed in the half decade since the CTX release. People seem to be more vitriolic online. The other issue, I think, is that this is the first Minelab in awhile to be this cheap, and owners of machines in that price range are a little sore about that. I don't know why. No one is forcing you to be brand-loyal. I honestly believe a lot of the frustration are from people who bought the Deus or the AT Max and feel they need to defend their purchases.

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Re: If any of the testers of the equinox read this forum, why don't you conduct a conclusive test of the machine?
Posted by: Southwind
Date: September 25, 2017 05:49AM
I really don't see why this is being made so difficult to understand. Overthinking the obvious perhaps?

All I'm saying for many years we have seen posters make the statement that they plan to wait until it [enter new detector] gets in the hands of uses and their reviews hit the forums before they decided to buy. What does they say about trust in current testers? To me it says most users don't put a lot of weight/truest in their review/results. Such a simple answer to this issue but the problem is unless you really have something to blow your horn about you will fail. The answer seems to be to spew the hype as thick and quickly as possible to get as many pre-orders sold as possible before the unit gets in the hands of the ordinary user who then start posting up the real reviews. From those reviews we determine if it is a winner or loser.

I happen to believe Minelab has a winner. They need to break this mold, or empty the swamp, and get the Equinox, when ready, out in the hands of testers who will put them through real world tests.



The real treasure is in the hunt...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2017 05:53AM by Southwind.

Re: If any of the testers of the equinox read this forum, why don't you conduct a conclusive test of the machine?
Posted by: Permit
Date: September 25, 2017 05:54AM
Patience is the greatest virtue of man...................

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