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Waterproof misuse
Posted by: RC
Date: September 30, 2017 06:37AM
Over the years I have wathed many detector companies bandy about the term water proof for their detectors. As a diver , waterproof means that no water will be able to enter the device up to a certain depth. The rulr of thumb has been any device that can be pressure tested to keep water out past 660 ft is water proof. Anything less is water resistant. The Excal is water ressistant to 200 feet which is a admirable feat. It keeps water out from 2 feet down to 200. The new equinox is not waterproof, it is water resistant from what I understand to 10 ft. Experience has taught me that 10 ft water resistance actually means keep it well under the ten ft. It is more likely splash proof. If they keep using waterproof someone will take it diving and find out exactly what depth it starts leaking. Every one wants to say their machine is the best, and yes they have good products, but some truth about the depth not to exceed needs to have some credibility injected into it. . Waterproof is 660 feet, anything less is simply watweproof and attention is rquired when it is used in its rated depth.

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Re: Waterproof misuse
Posted by: Greg (E.Tn)
Date: September 30, 2017 09:30AM
If I end up getting one I will use it strictly for wading in water less than 5' deep. Anything deeper than that I will use detectors rated for diving.

I own an Excal 1000 which I currently use for shallow water detecting. My digging buddy uses a Garret AT Pro, which works very, very well in shallow, fresh water detecting. His machine is lightweight, very fast, doesn't null out over iron, and has Target ID. I hope the Equinox will be superior in that environment, especially with the multi-frequency option and Target ID.

Keeping my finger's crossed....... :thumbup:

Re: Waterproof misuse
Posted by: Charles (Upstate NY)
Date: September 30, 2017 10:10AM
I think the rating has more to do with the fittings used for cables which are industry rated IP67, IP68 and so forth, and typically only rated for a given depth for a given amount of time so okay good to 10 feet but for how long submerged at that depth? That coil is waterproof, looks like the same shell used for Se Pro, eTrac coils its poured solid epoxy.

Aluminum shafts, control box housings exposed long term to corrosive salt water it will take a toll. Cable connectors have to be kept clean of sand and O-rings replaced over time like any underwater camera housing. I recently dug my Excalibur and Explorer SE Pro out of the closet. Both had been exposed to several seasons of salt water beach hunting, both aluminum portions of the shafts were bubbled and corroded. Just the nature of the beast in a salt water environment.

I see the Equinox 'waterproof' meaning in practical terms waste deep or less in salt water, ideally probably keep the control box out of the water, certainly good in storms on the wet sand blowing NE 40 mph with horizontal rain. But maybe it will hold up submerged for hours at a time TBD.

Re: Waterproof misuse
Posted by: Tyber0z
Date: September 30, 2017 12:41PM
Re: Waterproof misuse
Posted by: "Carolina"
Date: September 30, 2017 03:29PM
I plan on treating my Eqinox the same as my CTX. As deep as I can walk and dig targets without floating off. That being said, I am six feet even and have had my CTX chest to neck deep for five hours at a time with no issues. Salt water only. I have seen videos of the CTX with extra o rings on the USB port and different o ring than the red stock for the battery as deep as 30' with scuba. The time at this depth I do not know, nor do I know the effects of the water pressure on the keypad. No issues were reported. With this being said, I personally have had the stock 11" CTX coil 5' deep and the keypad and screen somewhere between 1 1/2' to 2' deep in saltwater. 3 years now without any problems!



MINELAB CTX 3030
MINELAB Excalibur II
MINELAB Excalibur 1000
MINELAB Excalibur Gold Sword
VALLON VMH3CS
WHITES Dual Field

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Re: Waterproof misuse
Posted by: dewcon4414
Date: October 01, 2017 07:25AM
ML knows with a salt setting WE will be neck deep with this machine....... or they best put a disclaimer in their warranty. There has always been a bit of disagreement as to what is water proof and water resistant. I know coil companies who claimed to have water proof coils back in the days..... which just werent. Soooooo anyone think we are going to have to go O ring hunting on this one? Looks like we may for the headphones....... appears to be a new set up over the CTX connector.

Dew



Xcal II, Blue Xcal 1000, Sov GT, Exp SE
Whatever you do in life, surround yourself with smart people who'll argue with you.... John Wooden.

Re: Waterproof misuse
Posted by: Tom_in_CA
Date: October 01, 2017 09:36AM
As a diver, you know that to dive at 200 ft or more is very rare. Needs special gasses, special training, etc.... And NO ONE dives at 660 ft. ;)

So all the vocabulary distinctions and definitions you speak of, have no bearing on 99.99% of hobbyists. Who tend to fool around in the splash zone. Wade or snorkel at best. Or if diving, to modest depths.

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Re: Waterproof misuse
Posted by: dewcon4414
Date: October 01, 2017 01:24PM
Tom...... id be surprised if a CZ or Xcal thats been used much in the salt water could be used at the 200 ft depth. Most of um ive had repaired NEVER passed a pressure test. Those external speakers really restrict depth too.



Xcal II, Blue Xcal 1000, Sov GT, Exp SE
Whatever you do in life, surround yourself with smart people who'll argue with you.... John Wooden.

Re: Waterproof misuse
Posted by: RC
Date: October 15, 2017 07:37AM
you are correct no one dives to 660 ( at least not recreational divers). The excal and my barracuda where both capable to go to 200 ft without leaks. They were not waterproof, but water resistant to 200. When a company states it is waterproof the standard is 660 feet. Anything less is water resistant. I use as an example I once bought a Timex divers watch is stated on the dial waterproof. At 30 feet it half filled with water. It was a good depth guage a lousy watch. I went and bought a Rolex and the Jeweller and Dealer told me about the difference between waterproof and resitant. My rolex is waterproof , the Timex was not.

Wether they do this to fool the potential buyer or not is something that the buyer must be aware of. It is either waterproof or water resistant to a specified depth. I would like Minelab to start speaking truthfully in these maters. I say truthfully because they have claimed for decades the excal is waterproof to 200 feet. That is incorrect it is water resistant to 200. To what depth was the excal actually tested or are they rekying on the case makers claims the case is good to xxx feet. Rolex as an example sells the Sea Dweller 4000 waterproof to 4000 feet of sea water, Yet it tests each sea Dweller 4000 to 30 percent greater depth so as to insure its registered depth is good to go.

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Re: Waterproof misuse
Posted by: lytle78
Date: October 15, 2017 08:32AM
The terms waterproof and water resistant mean nothing in any technical sense. The only generally accepted standard is the so-called IP Code.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Code

The interesting part of this is the IPX8 level which is “greater than 1 meter” - this is the only one of the ratings which calls for “continuous immersion” - note both time and depth are whatever depth the manufacturer elects to design and test to.

“The equipment is suitable for continuous immersion in water under conditions which shall be specified by the manufacturer. However, with certain types of equipment, it can mean that water can enter but only in such a manner that it produces no harmful effects. The test depth and/or duration is expected to be greater than the requirements for IPx7, and other environmental effects may be added, such as temperature cycling before immersion. Test duration: Agreement with Manufacturer
Depth specified by manufacturer, generally up to 3 m”




Rick Kempf

Re: Waterproof vs water resistant
Posted by: Tom_in_CA
Date: October 15, 2017 02:49PM
Good to hear from you RC.

Again: All that you're saying is no doubt technically true. But for the PRACTICAL application of PRACTICAL hobbyist applications, becomes a non-issue.

I recall this subject came up on a thread about Minelab coils once. Someone pointed out that the coils are not "water-proof". And that they are only water "RESISTANT". Implying that they should not be used in the ebbing surf, dunked underwater, etc.... But as your post points out, such fears are only in play if we're talking 100's of foot depth. Doh!

Hence while all that you're saying could be technically true, it does not affect anything (even diving!) that the average hobbyist does. If they use the detector for the deep sea submersible robot diving in the mariana trench, then ... yes .... those spec's come into play :)

Re: Waterproof misuse
Posted by: Tom_in_CA
Date: October 15, 2017 02:56PM
Quote
dewcon4414
,,,,, NEVER passed a pressure test. .....

But for everything the casual hobbyist does, I bet they were good enough. 99.999% of any water hunting that hobbyists do, is wading and snorkeling type depths stuff. And to the extent it's diving, they are usually stuff like swim lakes, lagoons, etc... Or even if wrecks, it's in the reefs shallows type of stuff. Not deep sea stuff.

I know that in CA, all the hardcore beach hunters here would want water proof ONLY because the big draw here is beach storm erosion. So that means hunting during storms (rain and wind). And hunting in the ebbing surf zone (splash and hits by waves). All of which do not need hardcore waterproof. Just .... essentially ... splash resistant.

The only reason I even got an excalibur, years ago, is SIMPLY because I got sick & tired having to wrap my Whites machines with plastic and black tape. Then you have to un-wrap to change batteries, and the buttons are a pain in the b*tt to see, etc.... And on a few occasions, when getting knocked down by a wave or whatever, the water got in through my plastic and tape attempts. Doh! :/

Re: Waterproof misuse
Posted by: Charles (Upstate NY)
Date: October 19, 2017 07:06PM
Quote
Tom_in_CA
I know that in CA, all the hardcore beach hunters here would want water proof ONLY because the big draw here is beach storm erosion. So that means hunting during storms (rain and wind).

^^^ Bingo! And storm rogue waves. Funniest video $100,000 winner...me running for my life up the beach from a rogue wave. Harry and I were once standing at the base of a 2 foot cliff up near the high tide line talking in Atlantic City. It was low tide and the water was way the hell down the beach, out of nowhere a rogue wave charged all the way up to the beach and we were standing in 2 feet of water unreal.

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