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Trashy Park
Posted by: Tom(Conn)
Date: October 01, 2017 01:31PM
Im not so sold yet until somebody takes this machine to a trashy park thats loaded with canslaw and junk not just iron,,Any detector can do well enough in a corn field or pasture,,Lets see how it does with aluminum against gold,,,Thats the real test IMOP,,

Re: Trashy Park
Posted by: IDXMonster
Date: October 01, 2017 01:37PM
Accurate ID in modern trash is indeed what a lot of us need. Again,Minelab has top quality performers,I'm expecting this will be great in that department as well. I'm a guy who waits til it's out and running around though,just to get actual in-field feedback. I've got a CTX that differentiates clad and silver to 9". If it's BETTER than that....then I'll be looking at buying one.

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Re: Trashy Park
Posted by: Gannon
Date: October 01, 2017 03:20PM
Mine lab does have the industry best ID IMHO. 12/45-12/46 is almost always a quarter or silver! My deus a 95 can be a zillion different things.



Minelab Etrac
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AT pro pointer
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18 silvers ytd
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Re: Trashy Park
Posted by: brother steve
Date: October 01, 2017 03:54PM
How can you match the ctx for have the price. Is it a beeber or can it tell us/

Re: Trashy Park
Posted by: IDXMonster
Date: October 01, 2017 04:07PM
Quote
brother steve
How can you match the ctx for have the price. Is it a beeber or can it tell us/

Yeah I think what some of us are getting at is....I don't care about the weight,battery seals etc etc the FBS machines are able to tell silver from clad much more reliably than other machines. The fact that the Equinox is half the price had nothing to do with anything if it cannot replicate what FBS does. Now....if one cannot afford a CTX then a used etrac of Explorer2/SE will fit the bill,if you're after deep turf silver. If the Equinox can differentiate between the two...then great! But I'm not going to spend HALF of what a CTX costs to have the Equinox not be able to reliably tell me what I need to know.
They will likely be two very different machines for different purposes....

Re: Trashy Park
Posted by: RLOH
Date: October 01, 2017 04:18PM
Tom, very good post. I have tried many detectors in these park settings and most fail the ID accuracy test. FBS detectors are the best I have used when looking for silver buried in modern trash. If this detector has FBS, I will be signing up for one. This might be the most anticipated detector I have seen in my twenty years of detecting.

Re: Trashy Park
Posted by: Charles (Upstate NY)
Date: October 01, 2017 04:47PM
Quote
Gannon
Mine lab does have the industry best ID IMHO. 12/45-12/46 is almost always a quarter or silver! My deus a 95 can be a zillion different things.

^^^ truth, this is significantly irritating me.

Re: Trashy Park
Posted by: saltwater jim
Date: October 01, 2017 04:55PM
Quote
Tom(Conn)
Im not so sold yet until somebody takes this machine to a trashy park thats loaded with canslaw and junk not just iron,,Any detector can do well enough in a corn field or pasture,,Lets see how it does with aluminum against gold,,,Thats the real test IMOP,,


If you ever find a machine that can tell aluminum from gold please let me know )

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Re: Trashy Park
Posted by: Jason in Enid
Date: October 01, 2017 06:06PM
Quote
saltwater jim
Quote
Tom(Conn)
Im not so sold yet until somebody takes this machine to a trashy park thats loaded with canslaw and junk not just iron,,Any detector can do well enough in a corn field or pasture,,Lets see how it does with aluminum against gold,,,Thats the real test IMOP,,


If you ever find a machine that can tell aluminum from gold please let me know )

Any company that can produce THAT detector will also be charging about $40K for it simply based on ability and desires of the user. Us old timers used to joke it would cost $10K but we have already crossed that mark with a standard prospecting detector.

Re: Trashy Park
Posted by: Tom(Conn)
Date: October 01, 2017 07:11PM
I believe they have the technology to tell gold from aluminum right now,,But to build such a machine would disrupt the industry,,They are going to keep throwing machines at us with just a few teasers to keep us buying them every year,,,Same thing with car batteries,,Im sure they can make one to last 25 years,,I dont mind digging the trash to find gold jewerly,But after 25 years it be nice if they would have something by now to at least notch most of the aluminum in the ground and id gold better,,,

Re: Trashy Park
Posted by: IDXMonster
Date: October 01, 2017 07:35PM
Quote
Tom(Conn)
I believe they have the technology to tell gold from aluminum right now,,But to build such a machine would disrupt the industry,,They are going to keep throwing machines at us with just a few teasers to keep us buying them every year,,,Same thing with car batteries,,Im sure they can make one to last 25 years,,I dont mind digging the trash to find gold jewerly,But after 25 years it be nice if they would have something by now to at least notch most of the aluminum in the ground and id gold better,,,

It would have to be COMPLETELY new technology,one that did not depend on eddy currents and magnetic returns. There are some things that are only going to get SO good,and Minelab owners,no matter what one you might have,have it GOOD! For the FBS to already do what it does is an absolute miracle all by itself. I hear you though Tom,we can wish!
We can still narrow it down by looking in probable areas and digging those really super stable signals on some of the rings anyway....but till that tech gets here that's all we have.

Re: Trashy Park
Posted by: Tyber0z
Date: October 01, 2017 10:02PM
Re: Trashy Park
Posted by: dbado1
Date: October 01, 2017 10:46PM
Aluminum comes in many different forms, shapes, densities, alloys, etc. Gold does too. Even natural gold nuggets all come in different on the ID scale . Nearly impossible with today's tech to differentiate between the two. It would have to be completely different tech. The ultimate tech for us nugget shooters would be a machine that beeps ONLY on gold. No more digging of bullets, casings, hot rocks, etc.

Dean

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Re: Trashy Park
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: October 02, 2017 03:29AM
I agree with dbado1 and IDXMonster, Tom. It "can't be done," as far as I can possibly imagine, using the types of machines we are using. It would have to be a completely new technology.

In a nutshell, as I understand it, here is how a detector works. A detector's transmit coil transmits an electromagnetic wave (or waves) into the ground. If there is a buried metal object in the ground, this electromagnetic transmission from the machine induces electrical current -- the flow of electrons -- in the buried metal object. The metal object, now that it is "lit up" with electromagnetic radiation and is now experiencing current flow within itself (i.e. "eddy currents,") will then re-transmit its own electromagnetic radiation back TO the detector's receive coil. The "wave properties" of that returned electromagnetic signal from the buried metal object are then measured and processed by the machine's software/algorithms, to assess the "conductivity" of the object, and make some guess -- based on that conductivity -- as to what the object is likely to be. One of the main determinants of what "properties" the returned electromagnetic signal contains (i.e. the target ID info) is largely dependent upon the metal's ability to conduct electricity, as I alluded to -- i.e. a good conductor, with round shape, creates nice, strong eddy currents; meanwhile, an oddly shaped, low-conductive metal produces poor, weak eddy currents. So, consider a round "pull tab ring," and a round gold band of similar size. BOTH are relatively low conductors of electricity (not conductive to producing strong eddy currents), but both have a round shape (which is conducive to producing eddy currents). In the end, the machine "reads" the received radiation generated by these eddy currents. The problem is, there is nothing really inherent in radiation being "read" by the machine that cares if the eddy current was produced by round, low-conductive GOLD, or round, low-conductive ALUMINUM. The machine knows NOTHING of the SPECIFIC TYPE of metal generating the eddy currents, it only knows how efficient the metal object was (or was not) at creating those eddy currents. So, while the fact that a silver dime produces much stronger eddy currents than a shard of thin, jagged aluminum (and thus the machine can exploit those differences to allow us to differentiate between silver dimes and shards of aluminum), there is no way just by reading radiation emanating from eddy currents from similarly shaped, similarly conductive metal objects to determine the elemental make-up of the target.

I have often wondered if there isn't some sort of way to "exploit" the fact that gold is much more DENSE and HEAVY -- i.e. much more "mass" than a similar-sized piece of aluminum. But, that would require some other type of technology to "read," as opposed to simply the properties (amplitude, phase, frequency, decay rate, etc.) of electromagnetic waves.

Steve



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Lesche 38D "King of Spades"

Norman, OK

Re: Trashy Park
Posted by: Rich (Utah)
Date: October 03, 2017 12:10AM
Quote
Charles (Upstate NY)
Quote
Gannon
Mine lab does have the industry best ID IMHO. 12/45-12/46 is almost always a quarter or silver! My deus a 95 can be a zillion different things.

^^^ truth, this is significantly irritating me.


This is like my old Tesoro Toltec 100. Great spread in the middle of the meter range for separating foil, nickels, tabs, brass tokens and buttons and so forth. But all the coins from Cu penny up were grouped at the end; no separation. My thoughts were that if I'm going to use a meter, I'd like to be able to separate the upper end as well.

Rich -



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