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Re: OK where's the Equinox stand with the gold issue?
Posted by: Charles (Upstate NY)
Date: October 04, 2017 07:49AM
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dewcon4414
Charles..... and that appears to be raw gold. Mixed gold may well be better. Im still waiting on the water report ..... im sure its going to be a good all around machine, but someone needs to get it wet in auzzie land.

The raw gold bits (dredged in Idaho) has some impurities but is probably more conductive than alloyed gold. Pure gold is highly conductive its only when gold is alloyed with another metal that it loses its conductivity. The dredged gold is probably 90% gold or higher, 14k gold like that second target with the fake diamond in the center is only 58.3% gold.

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Re: OK where's the Equinox stand with the gold issue?
Posted by: Jason in Enid
Date: October 04, 2017 08:01AM
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Charles (Upstate NY)
Quote
dewcon4414
Charles..... and that appears to be raw gold. Mixed gold may well be better. Im still waiting on the water report ..... im sure its going to be a good all around machine, but someone needs to get it wet in auzzie land.

The raw gold bits (dredged in Idaho) has some impurities but is probably more conductive than alloyed gold. Pure gold is highly conductive its only when gold is alloyed with another metal that it loses its conductivity. The dredged gold is probably 90% gold or higher, 14k gold like that second target with the fake diamond in the center is only 58.3% gold.

but don't confuse conductivity to the flow of electrons and the induction of a current from an EM field (what we as detectorists use). Gold is great for electrical conductance but bad for inductance. Copper and silver are both good for conductance but great for inductance. When gold coins and jewelry are alloyed to make them more durable, they are typically mixed with copper and silver. This will make them MORE responsive to our detector, not less.

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Re: OK where's the Equinox stand with the gold issue?
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: October 04, 2017 08:44AM
Jason -- I believe you are correct -- gold is a "low conductor" with respect to our machines, because it does not produce a large EM field when "lit up" by detector transmitted energy. Nuggets are often even poorer conductors than a ring or ball of gold of the same mass and karat/purity would be, as I understand it -- because the irregular shape and possible "nooks and crannies" in the nugget result in even worse eddy current generation than would otherwise be the case if it were solid and consistently shaped. Adding copper to gold (as in a 14K ring) does make the ring MORE visible by a detector; two equal rings in terms of size/shape -- one 14 and one 24k -- the 14k would read "higher" than the 24k. This is my understanding.

Steve



Minelab Explorer SE Pro, Fisher F19
Garrett ProPointer AT
Lesche 38D "King of Spades"

Norman, OK

Re: OK where's the Equinox stand with the gold issue?
Posted by: Charles (Upstate NY)
Date: October 04, 2017 08:45AM
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Jason in Enid
Quote
Charles (Upstate NY)
Quote
dewcon4414
Charles..... and that appears to be raw gold. Mixed gold may well be better. Im still waiting on the water report ..... im sure its going to be a good all around machine, but someone needs to get it wet in auzzie land.

The raw gold bits (dredged in Idaho) has some impurities but is probably more conductive than alloyed gold. Pure gold is highly conductive its only when gold is alloyed with another metal that it loses its conductivity. The dredged gold is probably 90% gold or higher, 14k gold like that second target with the fake diamond in the center is only 58.3% gold.

but don't confuse conductivity to the flow of electrons and the induction of a current from an EM field (what we as detectorists use). Gold is great for electrical conductance but bad for inductance. Copper and silver are both good for conductance but great for inductance. When gold coins and jewelry are alloyed to make them more durable, they are typically mixed with copper and silver. This will make them MORE responsive to our detector, not less.

Interesting, its not that often someone discombobulates my thinking. I never really thought about varying inductance qualities of metals. Please continue. I considered building a PI machine years ago, hanging out on the popular PI forum I learned the induced signal of various metals and soil decay at different rates. And that you can tune a PI for low conductive targets, but lose depth on high conductive targets as a side effect. Or tune them for high conductive targets, but then lose depth on the low conductive targets. Perhaps its more accurate to replace inductance for conductance. Very interesting good post.

I had always thought of inductance as a property of target size, shape, target orientation to the coil e.g. surface area the coils field lines strike and that's absolutely a huge factor. But you gave me something new to think about bravo!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2017 08:49AM by Charles (Upstate NY).

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Re: OK where's the Equinox stand with the gold issue?
Posted by: Jason in Enid
Date: October 04, 2017 02:30PM
Yeah, its pretty interesting and complex topic. The ability to induce a current and then read it before it decays is at the heart of this game. PIs have to be tuned for the environment and the target. The one set best for gold sensitivity are unusable in salt water. The ones tuned for salt beach still dont work for deep underwater use. By the time they are tuned for deep saltwater, they are almost useless for jewelry and far better for looking for big iron.

Another thing to think about is target orientation and shape. When you induce a current, the item acts like an antenna. The EM field doesnt radiate in all directions like a globe. Nail shaped objects shoot that field off the tips, which is why you get that perfect false, the hole is empty but there is a nail off to the side, pointed in to the center and often angled up slightly. Angled coins to the same. And angled coin sends the main response off the flat face. So an angled coin reads to the side of its true position. A straight on-edge coin will give you a double-blip off either side.

Re: OK where's the Equinox stand with the gold issue?
Posted by: Charles (Upstate NY)
Date: October 04, 2017 02:42PM
Nothing gets me cussing like a shallow clad dime angled shooting a signal off sideways pretending to be a deeper target :veryangry:

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Re: OK where's the Equinox stand with the gold issue?
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: October 04, 2017 03:04PM
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Charles (Upstate NY)
Nothing gets me cussing like a shallow clad dime angled shooting a signal off sideways pretending to be a deeper target :veryangry:

I hate those!

Steve



Minelab Explorer SE Pro, Fisher F19
Garrett ProPointer AT
Lesche 38D "King of Spades"

Norman, OK

Re: OK where's the Equinox stand with the gold issue?
Posted by: Charles (Upstate NY)
Date: October 04, 2017 03:19PM
Quote
sgoss66
Quote
Charles (Upstate NY)
Nothing gets me cussing like a shallow clad dime angled shooting a signal off sideways pretending to be a deeper target :veryangry:

I hate those!

Steve

My hatred of clad dimes, I once threw a bunch in the trash out of spite.

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Re: OK where's the Equinox stand with the gold issue?
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: October 04, 2017 03:31PM
LOL -- I hear you!

Steve



Minelab Explorer SE Pro, Fisher F19
Garrett ProPointer AT
Lesche 38D "King of Spades"

Norman, OK

Re: OK where's the Equinox stand with the gold issue?
Posted by: Tom_in_CA
Date: October 04, 2017 03:36PM
Quote
Tyber0z
...Call ME paranoid, but I think many of active users in here are just on this board to incite suspicion.....

Tyber, they're just playing the "devil's advocate" to get people talking. Or as a way of forming a question . To cause people to come-to-the-defense, and ... in that process, get their question answered. But ... heck .... even if they ARE of the "conspiracy theory" mentality of things in life, .... ok, so what ? No harm done (as annoying as it might be), We all have our nuances and quirks.

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Re: OK where's the Equinox stand with the gold issue?
Posted by: Southwind
Date: October 04, 2017 04:12PM
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Call ME paranoid

Paranoid LOL.

No really, All I've seen are good legitimate questions. That should be a good sign I would think. It means people are truly wanting to know, and that generally means they are truly considering buying one.

I would nothing better than to get rid of having to tote around two detectors. For years I've been looking for "My Precious". The one to rule them all LOL. The more you use one single detector the better you get with it. If you have to switch between several different machines you will never master one. Of course I'm sure there are many who claim to have mastered their machine. Experience has taught me if you use more than one with any frequency, you have not mastered any of them.



The real treasure is in the hunt...

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Re: OK where's the Equinox stand with the gold issue?
Posted by: Jason in Enid
Date: October 04, 2017 04:31PM
Quote
Southwind

I would nothing better than to get rid of having to tote around two detectors. For years I've been looking for "My Precious". The one to rule them all LOL.

LOL, that reminds me of my son. Before he was born I found a big, fat plain gold band while detecting. I have caught him on many occasions carrying it. He thinks its the "the one" after watching all the hobbit / LOTR movies with me :lmfao:

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Re: OK where's the Equinox stand with the gold issue?
Posted by: Southwind
Date: October 04, 2017 05:37PM
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Jason in Enid
Quote
Southwind

I would nothing better than to get rid of having to tote around two detectors. For years I've been looking for "My Precious". The one to rule them all LOL.

LOL, that reminds me of my son. Before he was born I found a big, fat plain gold band while detecting. I have caught him on many occasions carrying it. He thinks its the "the one" after watching all the hobbit / LOTR movies with me :lmfao:

LOL



The real treasure is in the hunt...

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Re: OK where's the Equinox stand with the gold issue?
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: October 05, 2017 01:04AM
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Jason in Enid
Quote
Southwind

I would nothing better than to get rid of having to tote around two detectors. For years I've been looking for "My Precious". The one to rule them all LOL.

LOL, that reminds me of my son. Before he was born I found a big, fat plain gold band while detecting. I have caught him on many occasions carrying it. He thinks its the "the one" after watching all the hobbit / LOTR movies with me :lmfao:

LOL Jason! That is great! I "get" your son!

Meanwhile, Southwind, I would love for nothing more than the Equinox to be "the one to rule them all;" I'd also be glad to relegate my Explorers to "backup duty," and just swing "my precious!"

Seriously, though, the offspring of a Deus and an FBS machine, in the Equinox package, would be absolutely incredible. Wonder how close to having something like that the Equinox will prove to be?

Steve



Minelab Explorer SE Pro, Fisher F19
Garrett ProPointer AT
Lesche 38D "King of Spades"

Norman, OK

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Re: OK where's the Equinox stand with the gold issue?
Posted by: Southwind
Date: October 05, 2017 02:45AM
The Deus is as close to My Precious as I've owned so far. Problem was it just wasn't quite there when it came to replacing my E-Trac. It had the depth but just not the target ID as informative as the E-Trac. Between the FE & CO the E-Trac made it more accurate on the deep coin ID'ing. I'm hoping the Equinox will do as well but it no longer has the FE. My hopes are it retains the same tonal abilities of the E-Trac. In my opinion, the tonal ability was better on the E-Trac as well.

When it came to comfort and a great gold/tot lot machine the Deus was miles above the E-Trac.

The final killer of the Deus for me was price.

I Had replaced my Deus with the Racer 2 but for reason I won't get in to I got rid of the R2 and got an AT Pro. It was the price difference why I went AT Pro and not another Deus. Both served my purpose as a great tot lot and basic hunter pretty equally, but the AT Pro was just cheaper. Neither quite stacked up to the E-Trac on those deep coins for me.



The real treasure is in the hunt...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2017 03:00AM by Southwind.

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