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Re: EQUINOX technologies.......
Posted by: D&P-OR
Date: October 19, 2017 07:36PM
Very, very true!-----It can be summed up in three words--BETTER USABLE DEPTH!--------BTW, I want to hunt behind some of those people!:smile:
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Southwind
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What good is a machine that can detect an 8" dime, but IDs it solidly as iron, versus a second machine that detects the same 8" dime, but IDs it as a dime?

Exactly what I've tried to explain to those who are always saying "My detector goes just as deep as the E-Trac/CTX" sgoss66. Yes many detectors will make a sound on those deep coins but what makes the FBS's special is the ability to accurately ID those sounds at greater depths.


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Re: EQUINOX technologies.......
Posted by: Cal_Cobra
Date: October 19, 2017 07:39PM
I've used VLF machines that were as deep, or got me coin targets that were even deeper then my Etrac (F75 LTD2 for example, BUT the silver HAD to be larger then dimes), BUT that said, it was an uncommon occurrence, whereas the Etrac consistently produced a fairly reliable TID and picked out deeper silver, especially dimes.

I know the soil conditions pretty well at the places I like to detect, and at some sites, my friends that have ML FBS machines have no issues handling mineralization that my VLF machines struggle with. If the ground is tame and I need every last bit of power, perhaps the Nox VLF mode will work better, maybe not, BUT you have options to select the right tool for the job.

Until we get these machines out in the field, everything's conjecture at best, but it's interesting to see the developments as ML teases us with tidbits of info.

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Re: EQUINOX technologies.......
Posted by: Jason in Enid
Date: October 19, 2017 07:50PM
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Charles (Upstate NY)
For those lamenting the NOX not going as deep on high conductive silver (and other copper, bronze) coins here's my gift to you...on your sites pounded to nothing with the FBS machines take the NOX in there with its higher frequencies and dig the coins on edge because it sounds like the NOX with its shift to higher frequencies will have the advantage on coins on edge, presenting the coil with a much smaller surface area facing the coil. :thumbup:

A coin has the same inductance ability regardless of its position. The only difference position plays is the amount of the RF signal that can make it back to the coil. Thats not the same as comparing a gold ring to a silver ring.

Re: EQUINOX technologies.......
Posted by: Ksdirt
Date: October 19, 2017 09:11PM
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sgoss66
Southwind,

I could be wrong, but I still think it is possible -- and possibly somewhat accurate -- to read their statement "BBS/FBS still have an advantage for finding high-conductive silver coins" as "please don't stop buying the CTX, even though we are releasing new/improved technology and being forced to do so at a lower price, due to the price point of the machines offered by our competitors..."

I think that could very well be it also ..had to sneak that line in somewhere ...I mean look ..Brandon's not going to put his rep. On the line for a waterproof xterra ..this is his number one machine now..atlleast you wouldn't think so....even if the price was right..


Re: EQUINOX technologies.......
Posted by: sube
Date: October 19, 2017 09:24PM
"however BBS/FBS still have an advantage for finding high conductive silver coins in all conditions

(ALL CONDITIONS) This doesn't set well with me I hunt trash more speed from target to target will see more and hear more less masking , as to depth in trash I think speed would give good depth more time for the detector to ID targets at normal sweep speeds . Ctx would miss some signals because of other targets that are just to close to the target you want .

What I see is a low conductor multi - frequency machine by running higher frequency making it more sensitive to low conductors where as the ctx runs lower frequency making it more sensitive to high conductors . As far as silver I think it well do very well .

As far as silver masked by iron and heavy trash density I would say the nox is the clear winner . sube



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2017 09:37PM by sube.

Re: EQUINOX technologies.......
Posted by: Architex
Date: October 19, 2017 09:47PM
FBS 2 goes as high as 100khz. So where is the gain with the EQ going to 40 khz coming from? Just an honest question.



One Man's Trash...........is what I usually find.

XP Deus / CTX 3030

Where are the diamond rings?.............They said there'd be diamond rings !.

Re: EQUINOX technologies.......
Posted by: Dan(NM)
Date: October 19, 2017 10:00PM
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Architex
FBS 2 goes as high as 100khz. So where is the gain with the EQ going to 40 khz coming from? Just an honest question.

No way FBS 2 is hitting 100khz, otherwise it'd be killer on small gold, it actually sucks in that dept, but, that's just my opinion.

Re: EQUINOX technologies.......
Posted by: sube
Date: October 19, 2017 10:45PM
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Architex
FBS 2 goes as high as 100khz. So where is the gain with the EQ going to 40 khz coming from? Just an honest question.

I know what your saying but in reality it is a low multi frequency detector deadly on deep silver by running lower frequency's if it ran higher frequency's it would be deadly on lower conductors .Maybe the next top detector well run high and low at the same time if that's possible . sube

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Re: EQUINOX technologies.......
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: October 19, 2017 11:40PM
I have said this before, here, and on other forums, but at the sake of becoming annoyingly repetitive, I'll say it again.

I do not believe that Minelab's engineers were instructed to create a new, breakthrough multifrequency technology, one that we can jump out of an airplane at a huge detecting festival and announce to the world will obsolete all other single-frequency VLF units but...

...while you are designing this cutting-edge technology, MAKE SURE that whatever "breakthrough" you engineer -- though it needs to be obsoleting single-frequency units from other companies -- it at the same time needs not to be SO MUCH of a breakthrough that it out-performs our OWN top-end machines...

No way.

IF the Equinox, and its Multi-IQ, is really so good that it will be shown to out-class high-end units from other companies, then it is going to -- BY DEFAULT -- be a serious threat to existing MINELAB units as well. OTHERWISE, if the Equinox and Multi-IQ are sub-standard performers to FBS and BBS and V-Flex, then the unit will almost certainly not be good enough to substantially outperform the best that the other companies have to offer, and thus Minelab will CONTINUE to lose market share. And further, in that case, Minelab would need to seriously consider firing some engineers!

However, I have little concern that this will be the case. I believe the marketing department HAS to suggest that the Equinox will fall "beneath" their best technology (they have too many E-Tracs and CTXs and Excals they need to continue to sell), but I doubt their engineering department is ready to agree that their best efforts resulted in a new technology that in some important ways is sub-standard to technology that the same engineering department brought to market 15 years ago (BBS and FBS)...

In my case, I am simply going to give them the benefit of the doubt. My Explorer is -- even being 15-plus year old technology -- the best machine I've ever used for the type of hunting I do. That's remarkable. I will trust the same people that engineered that unit that if they are going to jump out of an airplane and tell me they have a breakthrough in technology that will make single-frequency VLF obsolete, that it is likely to be an extremely capable machine. I'll buy it, try it, and see if that's not the case, for my style of hunting. If it's not, I'll sell it to someone else, whose style of hunting it may be more suited for.

Steve



Minelab CTX 3030
Minelab Explorer SE Pro
Garrett ProPointer AT
Lesche hand digger
Lesche 38D "King of Spades"

Norman, OK

Re: EQUINOX technologies.......
Posted by: Charles (Upstate NY)
Date: October 20, 2017 12:13AM
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Jason in Enid
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Charles (Upstate NY)
For those lamenting the NOX not going as deep on high conductive silver (and other copper, bronze) coins here's my gift to you...on your sites pounded to nothing with the FBS machines take the NOX in there with its higher frequencies and dig the coins on edge because it sounds like the NOX with its shift to higher frequencies will have the advantage on coins on edge, presenting the coil with a much smaller surface area facing the coil. :thumbup:

A coin has the same inductance ability regardless of its position. The only difference position plays is the amount of the RF signal that can make it back to the coil. Thats not the same as comparing a gold ring to a silver ring.

Sorry no, I think you need to go study magnetic field lines a coil produces.

Re: EQUINOX technologies.......
Posted by: Charles (Upstate NY)
Date: October 20, 2017 12:18AM
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Dan(NM)
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Architex
FBS 2 goes as high as 100khz. So where is the gain with the EQ going to 40 khz coming from? Just an honest question.

No way FBS 2 is hitting 100khz, otherwise it'd be killer on small gold, it actually sucks in that dept, but, that's just my opinion.

Se Pro won't get a tone on any of this gold even if you rub it on the coil, my other machine at 56 kHz hits them all. That round piece of 14k with the fake stone hits solid at 3 inches on my other machine, not a peep from the Se Pro.




Re: EQUINOX technologies.......
Posted by: Architex
Date: October 20, 2017 12:33AM
I got the 100 khz info from Minelab's web site: (and I quote)


"Full Band Spectrum 2 (FBS 2)
(used in CTX 3030 detector)

FBS 2 diagram

FBS 2 combines Minelab's FBS multiple frequency rectangular-wave transmission (1.5 kHz –100 kHz) with advanced digital coil-to-detector communications. The precisely calibrated smart coils and detector electronics allow advanced signal analysis for more accurate detection."



One Man's Trash...........is what I usually find.

XP Deus / CTX 3030

Where are the diamond rings?.............They said there'd be diamond rings !.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2017 12:35AM by Architex.

Re: EQUINOX technologies.......
Posted by: Hello
Date: October 20, 2017 01:04AM
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sgoss66
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Hello
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masterjedi
Thanks for the link...

A quote from the link >>> "however BBS/FBS still have an advantage for finding high conductive silver coins in all conditions." The Etrac and CTX still will rule the old silver coin world. I love my Etrac and CTX. I will buy the 800 for my grandson to use when he is here in Oregon.
A quote from another detector manufacturer said common sense tells you that fbs/bbs wont be any deeper than the lowest probing single frequency VLF detector, not sure if it went to court this was about 17 years ago and they said it was false advertising after Minelab were showing a diagram of their Explorer detectors probing much deeper than their competitors,

Hello,

What you were told by that other detector manufacturer ONE -- misses the point, and TWO -- I dare say is false.

FALSE, because if one machine is transmitting with greater power than a second machine of the same frequency, there COULD be a depth gain, but more importantly, if one detector does a better job dealing with the ground matrix than a second machine running the same frequency, the one dealing with the ground better would detect targets deeper. CLEARLY, some machines are deeper than others. Period. FALSE statement, whoever said it.

But, second, it MISSES THE POINT because, as others have alluded to in previous posts, multi-frequency can (and in the case of FBS, DOES) give you better target ID with depth. What good is a machine that can detect an 8" dime, but IDs it solidly as iron, versus a second machine that detects the same 8" dime, but IDs it as a dime? This is EXACTLY the scenario I have dealt with, with single-frequency machines versus FBS. I had an F70 that would detect ANY "deep" coin with a "15" ID -- in other words, IRON. Anything whatsoever beyond 7-8" gave a solid "IRON" ID number. Meanwhile, my Explorer can ID a coin with relatively good accuracy to the very limits of its depth capability. In terms of raw depth, the F70 was deeper -- ESPECIALLY in all-metal mode. By a few inches even. But accurate ID with depth, FBS is more accurate in my dirt by a good 3-4"...

Steve
yes it could well be false ive never owed a FBS machine it was a publicized statement i read in a metal detecting magazine. IVE managed to find a small reference to it online from another forum (Tres...net
"What upset many detector users was that C-Scope managed to get the Minelab ad withdrawn that showed one frequency going a couple of inches into the soil, two going a few more and ....multifrequency going way deeper by proving that on all but the most highly mineralised sites a single frequency could go as deep or deeper."

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Re: EQUINOX technologies.......
Posted by: Southwind
Date: October 20, 2017 05:38AM
I think what keeps getting ignored here is the key words "Accurate target ID at depth". A big difference between being able to say I've found coins with my single frequency deeper than the E-Trac.

I have had many detector that could go as deep as the E-Trac/CTX when it comes to just plain digging anything that makes a sound. I have never had any of those detector with as accurate target ID at the depth of my E-Trac. For some VDI and accurate target ID is not a factor, but for myself, and I believe many others, knowing when you have a deep coin is very important. multifrequency has much more accurate target ID than a single frequency.



The real treasure is in the hunt...

Re: EQUINOX technologies.......
Posted by: Dan(NM)
Date: October 20, 2017 08:18AM
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Architex
I got the 100 khz info from Minelab's web site: (and I quote)


"Full Band Spectrum 2 (FBS 2)
(used in CTX 3030 detector)

FBS 2 diagram

FBS 2 combines Minelab's FBS multiple frequency rectangular-wave transmission (1.5 kHz –100 kHz) with advanced digital coil-to-detector communications. The precisely calibrated smart coils and detector electronics allow advanced signal analysis for more accurate detection."

Hey Architex, I wasn't disputing you, just what Minelab has said about the 100khz claim. My Racer 2 hit my test nuggets very good for a VLF, my Etrac and CTX, not a peep.

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