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Re: EQUINOX technologies.......
Posted by: Charles (Upstate NY)
Date: October 20, 2017 08:43AM
Quote
Architex
I got the 100 khz info from Minelab's web site: (and I quote)


"Full Band Spectrum 2 (FBS 2)
(used in CTX 3030 detector)

FBS 2 diagram

FBS 2 combines Minelab's FBS multiple frequency rectangular-wave transmission (1.5 kHz –100 kHz) with advanced digital coil-to-detector communications. The precisely calibrated smart coils and detector electronics allow advanced signal analysis for more accurate detection."

FBS uses/processes harmonic frequencies of the "rectangular wave transmission". So 2nd, 3rd, 4th order harmonic frequencies, but here's the catch...the harmonics are weaker, the 3rd harmonic is weaker than the 2nd, 4th weaker than the 3rd, and so on. So 100 kHz yes technically but if FBS 100 kHz is say a 5th order harmonic, a single frequency detector transmitting at 100 kHz will be much stronger. This assumes Minelab is even using the 100 kHz harmonic for detecting a target, instead they may be using that 100 kHz for ground rejection.

What I find interesting about the Equinox is this image on Minelab's blog, does it transmit a fundamental frequency at all 5 of those frequencies in multi-frequency mode? That would be interesting because if so then it would be a full power at each of those frequencies, hence at 40 kHz it would be at full power on small gold vs say FBS being a 3rd or 5th order harmonic at 40 kHz. And if its also using harmonics of all 5 of those frequencies which the graphic seems to suggest in single frequency mode, with each frequency overlapping the other then very interesting indeed.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2017 08:46AM by Charles (Upstate NY).


Re: EQUINOX technologies.......
Posted by: nagant
Date: October 20, 2017 10:19AM
Charles the blurb below that image caught my eye big time....... "20 kHz and 40 kHz are not available as single operating frequencies in EQUINOX 600. The Multi-IQ frequency range shown applies to both EQUINOX 600 and 800. This diagram is representative only. Actual sensitivity levels will depend upon target types and sizes, ground conditions and detector settings " So in multi freq. they are the same!

Re: EQUINOX technologies.......
Posted by: Charles (Upstate NY)
Date: October 20, 2017 10:44AM
Open question, if its transmits at full power at all 5 frequencies in multi-frequency mode then why ever use it in single frequency mode?

Re: EQUINOX technologies.......
Posted by: Architex
Date: October 20, 2017 10:46AM
Minelab's "Knowledge Base" doesn't say a word about 100 khz being less effective but in-field results seem to indicate that. Wonder what they're not saying about Multi-IQ.



One Man's Trash...........is what I usually find.

XP Deus / CTX 3030

Where are the diamond rings?.............They said there'd be diamond rings !.

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Re: EQUINOX technologies.......
Posted by: Southwind
Date: October 20, 2017 11:03AM
Quote
Charles (Upstate NY)
Open question, if its transmits at full power at all 5 frequencies in multi-frequency mode then why ever use it in single frequency mode?

Good question. Now I'm not sure if the Whites DFX transmits full power to both 3.5 kHz & 15 kHz when run in multimode, but I can attest to the fact that if you run in single 15 kHz on the DFX it will pick up a lot smaller gold better. I've got a video on Youtube showing a comparison of the DFX in Best Data/Multimode compared to single 15 kHz and it is easy to see the difference.

video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu5_ygs_5L4



The real treasure is in the hunt...

Re: EQUINOX technologies.......
Posted by: Charles (Upstate NY)
Date: October 20, 2017 11:27AM
Quote
Southwind
Quote
Charles (Upstate NY)
Open question, if its transmits at full power at all 5 frequencies in multi-frequency mode then why ever use it in single frequency mode?

Good question. Now I'm not sure if the Whites DFX transmits full power to both 3.5 kHz & 15 kHz when run in multimode, but I can attest to the fact that if you run in single 15 kHz on the DFX it will pick up a lot smaller gold better. I've got a video on Youtube showing a comparison of the DFX in Best Data/Multimode compared to single 15 kHz and it is easy to see the difference.

video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu5_ygs_5L4

Once the Equinox arrives I'll be testing single vs multi-frequency on various size targets each single frequency is suited for and we'll just see if there's a difference. I guess I could make a case that if I was hunting only deep cache type targets and didn't want to be bothered with small targets going single low frequency might be useful, using the lack of the other frequencies as a form discrimination or notching. Ditto if I was hunting small jewelry at the highest frequency, which will only be detectable a few inches deep, then basically turn off all the other frequencies.

Re: EQUINOX technologies.......
Posted by: Bryan V
Date: October 20, 2017 01:03PM
Quote
Charles (Upstate NY)
Open question, if its transmits at full power at all 5 frequencies in multi-frequency mode then why ever use it in single frequency mode?

If I remember correctly, in one of the first videos the Minelab rep said that each hunt mode will have its own custom multi frequency...
Also the small print under the Multi-IQ graph says " Actual sensitivity levels will depend upon target types and sizes, ground conditions and detector settings."

Bryan



Minelab E-Trac
Gold Monster
Amigo II 5.75
Cibola GB Mod
Golden uMax/Sweeper



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2017 01:14PM by Bryan V.

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Re: EQUINOX technologies.......
Posted by: Cal_Cobra
Date: October 20, 2017 04:56PM
Quote
Charles (Upstate NY)
Quote
Architex
I got the 100 khz info from Minelab's web site: (and I quote)


"Full Band Spectrum 2 (FBS 2)
(used in CTX 3030 detector)

FBS 2 diagram

FBS 2 combines Minelab's FBS multiple frequency rectangular-wave transmission (1.5 kHz –100 kHz) with advanced digital coil-to-detector communications. The precisely calibrated smart coils and detector electronics allow advanced signal analysis for more accurate detection."

FBS uses/processes harmonic frequencies of the "rectangular wave transmission". So 2nd, 3rd, 4th order harmonic frequencies, but here's the catch...the harmonics are weaker, the 3rd harmonic is weaker than the 2nd, 4th weaker than the 3rd, and so on. So 100 kHz yes technically but if FBS 100 kHz is say a 5th order harmonic, a single frequency detector transmitting at 100 kHz will be much stronger. This assumes Minelab is even using the 100 kHz harmonic for detecting a target, instead they may be using that 100 kHz for ground rejection.

What I find interesting about the Equinox is this image on Minelab's blog, does it transmit a fundamental frequency at all 5 of those frequencies in multi-frequency mode? That would be interesting because if so then it would be a full power at each of those frequencies, hence at 40 kHz it would be at full power on small gold vs say FBS being a 3rd or 5th order harmonic at 40 kHz. And if its also using harmonics of all 5 of those frequencies which the graphic seems to suggest in single frequency mode, with each frequency overlapping the other then very interesting indeed.


I believe at Detectaval the Minelab engineer said that each mode (park, field, beach, prospecting, etc) would have a different set of frequencies in multi-frequency mode tailored specifically to that type of hunt mode, and that the prospecting mode was multi-frequency only.


Charles, I agree, I've been told by a very reliable source that metal detectors are surface detectors which supports your conclusion
Posted by: jtalley007
Date: October 20, 2017 09:41PM
BBS and FBS must behave differently than traditional single frequency machines?

I've always had a theory that Minelabs favor the lower frequencies since they don't respond at all or well to small gold.

If the upper frequencies were coming into play they would be killers on gold?

JMHO

Jerry

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Re: EQUINOX technologies.......
Posted by: Wayfarer
Date: October 20, 2017 09:51PM
A slightly tweaked multi-freq for each mode or type of hunting would make sense. If you were looking for deep silver, for instance, you'd want a multi-freq that was more heavily biased towards the lower freqs, like 5, 10, and 15. If you were looking for small gold jewelry, you'd still want the benefits of multi-freq for ground cancelling, but you'd want it hotter on small low conductors, so you'd want a bias toward the higher freqs, like 15, 20, and 40.

Rather than calling the modes, "park," "field," etc., maybe it would have made more sense to call the modes "high conductor," "low conductor?" But I think you are onto something here, that basically that's what the modes are. Park is essentially low conductor biased, field is mid conductor, beach is high-mid good for gold jewelry, and prospecting is high conductor only for tiny gold nuggets.

Why wouldn't they be able to vary the power in each frequency in multi-freq mode to suit particular target types? Makes sense to me.



Current detectors: White's V3i, MXT, XL Pro
Past: White's XLT, 6000D Series 3, Coinmaster 2DB, Minelab CTX 3030, Fisher Gold Bug Pro
Location: Western Idaho

Re: EQUINOX technologies.......
Posted by: bugg
Date: October 20, 2017 10:25PM
Brian, I thought the beach mode was multi......from my memory of the same video.

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Re: EQUINOX technologies.......
Posted by: Jason in Enid
Date: October 20, 2017 10:48PM
Quote
Wayfarer

Rather than calling the modes, "park," "field," etc., maybe it would have made more sense to call the modes "high conductor," "low conductor?"

Because most of the people who buy these detectors arent the geek level of this that we are. high and low conductor is meaningless and confusing to them. So they name them for where you hunt because most are after similar targets in each area.

Re: EQUINOX technologies.......
Posted by: Ksdirt
Date: October 20, 2017 11:12PM
common sense....well put Jason....high and low conductor ...I met one on a train once..:rofl:...

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Re: EQUINOX technologies.......
Posted by: Wayfarer
Date: October 20, 2017 11:54PM
Quote
Jason in Enid
Quote
Wayfarer

Rather than calling the modes, "park," "field," etc., maybe it would have made more sense to call the modes "high conductor," "low conductor?"

Because most of the people who buy these detectors arent the geek level of this that we are. high and low conductor is meaningless and confusing to them. So they name them for where you hunt because most are after similar targets in each area.

You're probably right. Maybe then: Park=Coins, Field=Relics&Jewelry, Beach=Small Jewelry&Gold, Prospecting=Prospecting.

My main point was that the different multi modes are probably programmed so they emphasize low freqs to hit hard on high conductors, mid freqs on mid conductors, and high freqs on low conductors. That would make logical sense. That way the operator could tailor the detector to the type of targets he was hunting, but still operate in multi and get the benefits of multi, like better ground cancelling.


Or how about this as an example of a low conductor:



Current detectors: White's V3i, MXT, XL Pro
Past: White's XLT, 6000D Series 3, Coinmaster 2DB, Minelab CTX 3030, Fisher Gold Bug Pro
Location: Western Idaho




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Re: EQUINOX technologies.......
Posted by: Jason in Enid
Date: October 21, 2017 06:38AM
LOL, that would be a short conductor!

Yeah, this kind of thing has always been a thorn in my side. I prefer to deal with raw settings. Let me set up the options how I need them best. Companies want "user friendly interfaces" so the generic user can talk about how easy it is to use.

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