20th Century Tales Forum

I suspect that being Holloween night and all some kid had some fun. It would be a temptation for sure but that don't explain all the other sightings. I don't even believe in ghosts a little bit but the imagination is something powerful, especially when it has been primed by many story's. It is sure real to the observer, especially if he is a believer.

But...... um, I could be wrong

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http://royalottmar.blogspot.com/

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I certainly appreciate my story getting some attention here. I'm also the author of a now-OP book called THE LOST SAN SABA MINES. Anyone wanting to see--from the road, since it's on private property--the original 'Lost San Saba Mine,' which is nowhere near anything called San Saba, hasn't been lost since 1907--& Jim Bowie never had anything to do with it or any other mine in Texas--follow these directions. On Texas 71 below Llano there's a road on the west side known as Click Road. It's sometimes marked with a sign reading 'Click Cemetery,' because about the only thing left of the Click community is the cemetery. Turn off 71 onto Click Road. Where the road makes a 90-degree bend to the south, stop. The hill in front of you is Riley Mountain, originally called El Cerro de Almagre by Miranda. About in the middle of the saddle there are two huge liveoaks. The original Cueva de San Jose del Alcazar is at the foot of those trees. Locally it was called 'the Boyd shaft.' Today there are two holes there, looking almost like lenses on a pair of eyeglasses. The original hole is only about 4 feet deep. The hole next to it was dug in the 1920s by the Almagres Mining Company of Llano, in an attempt to find where the silver vein might have pinched out. The location was verified by none other than Dr. Herbert C. Bolton of Austin, author of TEXAS IN THE MIDDLE 18TH CENTURY, among much else. By his own statement, 'with Miranda's report in hand' he followed the Miranda party's trail landmark by landmark to locate the original Spanish shaft. The Almagres Mining Co., when it dug the new shaft, dumped its spoil down the Spanish hole.
Don't let the external appearance of Riley Mountain fool you. It's covered with limestone & nobody would think it could be a 'hill of red ocher' unless they dug into it. Less than a foot under that limestone cover you'll find all the 'almagre' you could possibly want.
TexasCharley

I enjoyed it. In regards to Jim Bowie and his lost silver mine, and from all the research that I have done, I do not believe that he ever had a silver mine. It is possible that he might have found a cache of silver somewhere in the Hill Country, or the silver was stolen from the Mexicans...we will never know for sure.

Did you ever do any research on gold being in Reagan's Canyon down near the Big Bend? Many years ago, they brought some samples to San Antonio and it was indeed gold. Some folks think the gold may be just across the river in Mexico, not in Texas.

Also, I have read several of your other books too! I ride through Seguin quite often and have been tempted to meet with you and compare some historical notes, but I always figured that you would be too busy. Lately, I have been doing lots of historical research from the Gonzales area up to Luling and Lockhart...lots of interesting history in those areas. Slowly, but surely, I am putting together a journal about my travels throughout South Texas. Kelley (Texas)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2009 03:38PM by Kelley (Texas).

They are pretty much the only thing remaining of what was once a vibrant, town. In a small town called Cumberland, just up the road from Waynes place, there are several cemeteries. This was a very heavily used coal mining area. Some of the graves are of children who were killed in the mines. There is also a separate Chinese cemetery... they were not permitted to be buried in the while section.

Fair winds

micheal

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"A dog is better than me, for she has love and does not judge"

"Surfing is not a matter of life and death...... it is much more important than that"

I learned the real story of Jim Bowie's silver from Ralph A. Doyal, the grandson of Matthew A. Doyal, whose name is sometimes given as 'Matteo Diaz' for reasons unknown. You'll find his name--miss-spelled as 'Doyle'--on the monument to the Calf Creek fight in McCulloch County. He was with Bowie when they stole silver from a Mexican train of pack mules headed to New Orleans. In New Orleans the Mexican government would trade bar silver for letters of credit so Mexico could trade overseas. The Mexican government was so unstable after 1821 that almost no nation would sell Mexico anything on credit.

Apparently Bowie made a regular business of stealing Mexican silver. He went into the granite hills & came back with silver on several occasions. Since he was the son-in-law of the vice-governor of Coahuila & Texas, he would have been able to get routes & schedules for the silver trains easily. He invented the tale of the mine to explain where he got the silver. That whole business about Xolic & Tres Manos & Bowie living with the Lipans is pure moonshine. There simply isn't enough time not accounted for in his time in Texas for that to have happened.

Bowie, with his brother Rezin P, Caiphas Hamm, George Coryell, Matt Doyal, & others--according to Ralph there were 14 white men & a slave--simply hid in some rocks until most of the train had passed. They cut the rope & walked off with the last 3 mules. Each mule carried tres quintales. A quintal is 101 pounds. It was in half-quintal bars, 6 bars to the mule, 3 on each side, in leather pockets. The soldiers & the muleskinners stayed together at the head of the train. Since the train might be 100 to 150 mules long, they didn't keep close watch on the end mules.

When the Bowie party was told by a 'friendly Comanche'--& there were such, at times--that they were being followed by a band of Wacos & Tawakonis, the men found a place to fort up that had cover and water. I have reason to believe that location is just south of the old Calf Creek school building. Of course, the first thing that happened was the Indians captured the horses & mules, but the packs had been removed. After the fight, according to Matt Doyal, the men buried 909 pounds of pure silver--18 bars--in a hole 'waist deep on a tall man,' which would make it about 3 feet deep. Again according to Matt Doyal, they all agreed that they would not dig up the silver unless all 14 of them were present. The next spring Bowie's wife Ursula & their child died in an epidemic. Bowie took a headfirst dive into a whiskey jug & didn't come up for air until 1835. Unless some of the men broke the agreement--& according to Doyal none of them did--that silver is still where they put it.

The Reagan Canyon gold was discovered by a Seminole Negro named Bill Kelly. When he showed a sample to the Reagans they threw it in the Rio Grande. They couldn't believe Kelly knew anything about gold. Kelly gave a sample of the ore to a railroad conductor on the GH&SA who lived in San Antonio. It assayed $20,000 to the ton when gold bullion sold for $20 an ounce. It's one of 3 known lost lodes in the area. One, probably just across the river, is wire gold. The third is somewhere along the old route of the SP, before the tracks were straightened in the 1920s. It's a ledge of feldspar that assays almost half gold.

Unfortunately, the two lodes on the Texas side are on private property. In addition, over the years a lot of the mineral rights have been alienated, so it would almost be impossible to get a legal claim to either even if you found it. To give you an idea of what happens to mineral rights, my step-great grandfather owned a 505-acre farm near Old Ocean, Texas. When he sold it he retained half the mineral rights. Those mineral rights are now spread among something like 150 descendants. There's oil on the place & I draw about $60 a quarter from my share.

Coronado's Children. About twenty-five or thirty years ago, I went to one of the two newspapers that were here at that time and went through their files in the basement looking for information about Reagan's Lost Mine. It took awhile, but I finally found it...it was stored on microfilm at that time. I made a copy of the newspaper article and I still have it somewhere around this house...may be stored in a box somewhere with other research papers. Some folks believe it is not a mine, but an exposed rock ledge with gold. Going by memory, which is not very good at times, I keep thinking that there were two Reagans...they were brothers. One of the Reagan brothers brought an ore sample to San Antonio. I also remember something about Bill Kelly having a friend that worked for the railroad and he also brought a sample to San Antonio. Like I stated, many years ago I did some research on that area and somewhere I have a folder with notes and other information about this subject. That area down where Reagan's Canyon is located is dangerous now because of all the drugs coming across the border. First cool day, I need to locate the boxes where I have lots of research records stored...need to refresh my memory. Kelley (Texas)

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Many years ago, probably back in the late 1980's, I located a battle site back on a ranch west of Leon Springs, Texas. I had spent the day riding a horse back in a remote area looking for stray mama cows and calves and was heading back home when I accidently found this site. It was late in the day and as I was moving the cow and calf ahead of me across a bluff, I noticed some rocks that seemed to be out of place. I made a mental note of the location and continued on my way...I was hungry, tired, and the half wild mama cow was giving me a hard time of it.

A few days later I returned to the site with a metal detector and camera. This site was on a bluff and looked down upon a small valley...there was a creek at the bottom of the bluff. Upon investigation, I found eight or nine spots where there were small scattered piles of large rifle cartridges. These were approximately 55 cal. and were the rim fire type of rifle shell. Looking around, I found several old rusted metal buttons, part of a fork, part of a harmonica, a iron chain about four feet long, and best of all, I found a large brass belt plate. I will post a picture of the belt plate when I finish typing this story.

After searching for several hours, I decided it was time to leave. It was at this time that I decided to check the base of the bluff...maybe I would find a few relics down there too. Well, I found some things, but they were not relics...there were bones scattered everywhere along the base of that bluff. These were not large animal bones, but were smaller bones...about the size of human bones. A chill went through me and the hair on the back of my neck stood up...these might be human bones! As I stood there looking up and down the base of that bluff, I noticed that it was real quiet, no bird sounds or anything...it was just a spooky type of quietness. Within seconds I decided that it was time to leave the area...as quickly as possible.

A few days later, I made a visit to Fort Sam Houston in San Antonio in the hopes of finding out about the battle site. They had no record of a battle site near Leon Springs. They did tell me that the belt plate was a Civil War officers belt plate. They offered to buy the belt plate but I said no. I have never been able to obtain any information about the battle site. I still have the old 5 1/4 inch floppy disk with the pictures that I took that day, but I need to find someone with an old computer that I can use to transfer them to a disk or something. I need to return to that site and look for some more relics, but it has to be soon because that ranch has been sold and they are starting to build houses. Please have a great day! Kelley (Texas)

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"Try to live up to your dog's opinion of you!"

bones were human, and were still there, if the State was contacted, that would stop development for a while! I'd hunt it before that continues. Very Interesting Fred!

would certainly check out that bone pile.

Actually if you are not going to hunt it I think I would find an archaeologist and let them know about it before it is destroyed by the development. History should not be destroyed.

That is a fine buckle you found there buddy.

Thanks for the post

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/15/2009 06:05AM by Royal.

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The rimfire cartridge cases were most likely Spencers. There were a lot of Spencers bought by the government during the War Between the States--& over a million rounds of .58 cal. Spencer ammo. This would date the fight prior to 1869, when the cavalry was rearmed with .50 cal. Spencers. That site needs to be brought to the attention of the state archaeologist. Tomorrow night I'll probably see Dr. Ann Fox, who's an archaeologist at UTSA. I'll tell her about it, but since I don't know the location there's not much I can do beyond that.

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A liar will assume you are lying

distroy the last remaining evidence of those people. It just seems they deserve to be remembered. The important thing, it seems to me is not who gets the credit but those peoples story and they deserve not to be forgotten.

It must been a real journey to even get to that spot. They died there. They should be remembered./

WE know Fred found them

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