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Vaquero vs Bandito umax
Posted by: sqwaby
Date: July 16, 2009 02:42PM
I really like my Vaquero(high tone) and I'm looking at a Bandito umax. If you have experience using BOTH of these machines I would appreciate your comparison. Is the Bandito going to out perform the V in some areas, depth, more definition in the signal sound with different targets, etc. Thanks

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Re: Vaquero vs Bandito umax
Posted by: David
Date: July 16, 2009 03:03PM
I can only pass on what I have heard. The ED 120 discrimination of the Bandido (II uMax or Eldorado) handles rusty iron better than the ED 180 discrimination of the Vaquero (and Tejon).

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Re: Vaquero vs Bandito umax
Posted by: Dang
Date: July 17, 2009 12:22PM
I think both a very good and very much the same detector whit minor differences.
The coils are not interchangeable so you will need both 4 and 5 pin coils. The Bandido
has the nice feature of a All Metal/Disc toggle switch which the Vaquero hasn't.
And I like the tones on the Bandido better, And I find it's easier to pin point the Bandido
also. But The Vaq has Freq shift control which is handy and will go deeper with it's
stock coil then the Bandido does with it's stock coil. I would stick with a machine where
I can use any extra coils with both detectors.

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Re: Vaquero vs Bandito umax
Posted by: David
Date: July 17, 2009 01:11PM
That is very good info Dang! Yes extra coils are expensive buying coils for 2 different detectors if they are not interchangable. Yes it is better to have 2 detectors where you can use any extra coils with both detectors interchangably.

"The coils are not interchangeable so you will need both 4 and 5 pin coils." Yes the (Bandido-Eldorado) uMax coils and Vaquero-Tejon coils are not interchangable.
http://www.tesoro.com/product/coils/

"But The Vaq has Freq shift control which is handy and will go deeper with it's stock coil then the Bandido does with it's stock coil."
Dang or anyone elso, generally how much deeper is the Vaq over the Bandido II uMax(or Eldorado)?? On a clad coin about one inch, 2 inches, etc.?
Thank you.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2009 01:13PM by David.

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Re: Vaquero vs Bandito umax
Posted by: Dang
Date: July 18, 2009 09:53AM
I would say during the air test side by side the Vaq got the quarter about 1.5" to 2" further from it's coil then the Bandidos.
But the Vaq's coil is a different style and size then whats on the bandido. That might be a factor as well. A better evaluation
would be possible if I had a 9X10 Spider coil for the Bandido also. Monte would know for sure about this. (Hint)
Also........I did these tests inside my home where all sorts of wires and ufos are around and I didn't think that
perhaps the Freqs position on the Vaq was on a different freq then that of the Bandido's fixed freq.

If I had to pick between the Vaquero or Bandito 痠ax, today, I'd lean toward
Posted by: Monte
Date: July 18, 2009 04:54PM
the Bandido II 然AX, but then these forums are for opinions, right?


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sqwaby
I really like my Vaquero(high tone) and I'm looking at a Bandito umax.
I have owned a few Vaquero's and didn't like any of them ... if they had the "standard" lower audio tone. The "high-tone" versions I liked. I do like the momentary Pinpoint button function like that of the Silver Sabre 然AX and Sidewinder's, however, I preferred the quick mode-change of the Bandido II 然AX.


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sqwaby
If you have experience using BOTH of these machines I would appreciate your comparison. Is the Bandito going to out perform the V in some areas, depth, more definition in the signal sound with different targets, etc. Thanks
Depth of detection, using similar coils can be quite close. Generally I'd say the Vaquero might have an 'edge' in depth, but not that significant if all the settings are similar.

I prefer to have a broader (low-end) acceptance in the Discriminate mode and while the Bandido II 然AX has the ED-120 discriminate acceptance range, the Vaquero/Cibola design has something more inclusive like an ED-165 to a little more. Still not a full ED-180 like the Tej鏮 or Compadre or Eldorado or Euro Sabre, but more than an ED-120. Now, with that said, having such an enhanced range is only good if you're going to be using less than iron nail rejection at a lot of sites. For most of what I want a quick response Tesoro for, the Bandido II 然AX did just fine.

As for providing something of benefit, I like to be able to change modes at will, and with the Vaquero you're 'clicked' in the All Metal mode and thus you don't have a Discriminate mode to quickly access that has the discriminate level setting you want for the site. I prefer the Bandido II 然AX because it does let you change modes at will.

Just my opinions, but if you're comfortable with the Vaquero's mode selection process and discriminate range and audio, then I am not sure you're going to feel a Bandido II 然AX is much of an improvement. If you're going to compliment either of these non-metered Tesoro's with another model, perhaps it ought to be one with Target ID. That would add a dimension to what you're currently getting.

Monte


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Re: Vaquero vs Bandito umax
Posted by: David
Date: July 18, 2009 05:55PM
Thanks Dang.

Thanks and that clears some things up Monte, I was wondering about this lately. I hate to barrage so many questions at you, but if you can answer very, very briefly in as few words as possible is 100% and appreciated.

1) It says on the Tesoro web site that the Tiger Shark has Bandido circutry. Do you know, does the Tiger Shark have ED 120 discrimination the same as the Bandido II uMax does, or not??

2) What does the Lobo ST have, ED-120 or ED-180??

"I prefer to have a broader (low-end) acceptance in the Discriminate mode and while the Bandido II 然AX has the ED-120 discriminate acceptance range, the Vaquero/Cibola design has something more inclusive like an ED-165 to a little more. Still not a full ED-180 like the Tej鏮 or Compadre or Eldorado or Euro Sabre, but more than an ED-120. Now, with that said, having such an enhanced range is only good if you're going to be using less than iron nail rejection at a lot of sites. For most of what I want a quick response Tesoro for, the Bandido II 然AX did just fine."

3) I do not quite understand this part above clearly Monte??

4) You prefer to have a broader (low-end) accentance range in the Discriminate mode. Which has this feature, the ED-120 or ED-180 that you perfer as better??

5) IYHO does the ED-120 handle rusty iron better than ED-180 as I have heard, or not??

Thank you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2009 05:59PM by David.

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Re: Vaquero vs Bandito umax
Posted by: Bill in Texas
Date: July 19, 2009 05:55AM
I have had and used both and after I got used to it, its the Vaquero hands down for my type of detecting. The Cowboy is a very stable and silent hunter that is a magnet for small gold. I would love to see Tesoro make Vaquero type with 2 notches and 3 tones though. Bill in Texas

Re: Vaquero vs Bandito umax
Posted by: sqwaby
Date: July 19, 2009 05:42PM
Thanks for all the replies. I think Monte makes a good point, since I already have a Vaq that works well for me. Get a TID or something that compliments or expands on the detectors already owned. I'm with you on the 2 or 3 tone Vaquero Bill, only I'd like notch disc for the whole disc range with a notch width adjustment at each point. If they did a multi tone I'd like more separation(frequency change) between each tone, I have a Golden Umax and its tough to tell the tones apart sometimes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2009 05:45PM by sqwaby.

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Re: Vaquero vs Bandito umax
Posted by: Dang
Date: July 20, 2009 12:56AM
Different tones, ID's and notch. Not for me. Distracts me from detecting. Spend so much time tyring to figure out exactly what the detector is telling me I could just as easily have dug up the target and be on my way.
Just like the old days. And a heck of a lot cheaper.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2009 12:57AM by Dang.

David, here are my "brief" Monday morning replies.
Posted by: Monte
Date: July 20, 2009 07:38AM
Sorry I didn't see this to get to it sooner. Been trying to get over a flu bug that hit me hard on Thursday and left me weak for a few days. On top of that, I grabbed a few hours rest and woke up at 3:30 this morning with a nasty floater in my right eye. This getting old and being unhealthy stuff is really irritating. :(


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David
Thanks and that clears some things up Monte, I was wondering about this lately. I hate to barrage so many questions at you, but if you can answer very, very briefly in as few words as possible is 100% and appreciated.
"Brief" is a tough thing to ask of me, but I'll try.


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David
1) It says on the Tesoro web site that the Tiger Shark has Bandido circutry. Do you know, does the Tiger Shark have ED 120 discrimination the same as the Bandido II uMax does, or not??
Reading the Tiger Shark flyer it states: It uses the same great ground balance and discrimination features that made the Bandido series so successful." Like all pieces of marketing, in print or just verbal, or even 'suggested" with pictures or drawings, You have to work through it. Let's look at this statement for a moment. First is says Sensitivity and Discrimination FEATURES and not THE SAME CIRCUITRY. What "features" does it refer to? Nothing specific so we can only conclude that like the Bandido series it provides manual GB and motion-based Discrimination. That statement is a bit vague!

So let's also consider the other comment when it compares the Tiger Shark with the Bandido series which spans four very differing models.:

Bandido.. The 'original' of the four models operated at 10 kHz. It had a "nice and proper" sort of Auto-Tune speed in the All Metal mode that was, for me, about ideal. Quite functional. It also brought us the first model with ED-120 discrimination, and it featured the 3-turn Ground Balance control, complimented by a Discrimination and Sensitivity control, a small knob that protruded through a hole in the back of the housing that worked the GB trimmer, and a mode-change toggle to select All Metal or Discriminate modes, and a momentary retune for the All Metal mode.

Bandido II.. Virtually the same model, but it has an added toggle switch to select either Manual retune or Fast Auto-tune in the All Metal mode. It no longer had the nice slower auto-tune of the original. It was either a very fast auto-tune, or manual only.

Bandido 然AX.. This model played up on the Sidewinder's small control housing and light-weight design. It differed from the first two because it operated at 12 kHz, like the Sidewinder, and it lacked the Threshold control adjustment. It also lacked the field performance I got from both the first Bandido 'series" models. In short, it seemed wimpy, and was horrible in versatility because you couldn't set a nice-and-proper Threshold hum.

Bandido II 然AX.. This model returned to the 10 kHz operating frequency, had an external Threshold tuner control, and brought us the "Low-Noise/High-Gain" circuitry that provided a bit better depth, stronger audio hits on mid-range targets, but didn't work quite as well in dense iron trash sites.

The Tiger Shark operates at 12 kHz. That's not the same as 3 of the four Bandido's.

Audio is different, also, because the first Bandido's had an audio frequency of 625 Hz. The Bandido 然AX was 760 Hz, and the popular Bandido II 然AX operates with an audio frequency of 630 Hz. This would by considered today a "high tone" version for something like the Vaquero, which has a standard audio frequency of 293 Hz. Many forum followers and Tesoro users prefer a "high tone" Vaquero, and I am one of them as I find the higher audio tones easier to hear and better when trying to discern some audio response qualities. The Tiger Shark has an audio frequency of 270 Hz. Nope, not like the Bandido 'series."

Then, too, the Tiger Shark uses piezo speaker headphones and that is different.

Where a tiger Shark also differs is in the Discriminate mode acceptance range since the Tiger uses an ED-180 acceptance compared with the Bandido's more limiting ED-120.

Nope, there is more to it than that, but there's more dis-similar between the Tiger Shark and any Bandido model.



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David
2) What does the Lobo ST have, ED-120 or ED-180??
ED-180 and maybe a bit more. ;) Keep in mind that while the Lobo ST has the "full range " acceptance, it also relies on an internally preset Ground Balance for the motion Discriminate mode.


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David
"I prefer to have a broader (low-end) acceptance in the Discriminate mode and while the Bandido II 然AX has the ED-120 discriminate acceptance range, the Vaquero/Cibola design has something more inclusive like an ED-165 to a little more. Still not a full ED-180 like the Tej鏮 or Compadre or Eldorado or Euro Sabre, but more than an ED-120. Now, with that said, having such an enhanced range is only good if you're going to be using less than iron nail rejection at a lot of sites. For most of what I want a quick response Tesoro for, the Bandido II 然AX did just fine."

3) I do not quite understand this part above clearly Monte??
That may come from some misuse of the term "All Metal' used by Tesoro and some other manufacturers, and what a true ED-180 means to me. many people still don't understand what ED-120 and ED-180 really refers to, and then that's only part of the picture. The processing circuitry has to be factored in, just like the smooth rejecting, quiet working first couple of Bandido models Vs the last Bandido II 然AX with the Low-Noise/High-Gain circuitry. It was just noisier and had some challenges in some iron trash conditions. The first and last Bandido's are my favorites for their strengths: The first, quieter in iron trash at minimum discrimination, and better than the last Bandido. The Bandido II 然AX is lighter, 'handier,' and a bit deeper and responsive than the original from this "series."


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David
4) You prefer to have a broader (low-end) accentance range in the Discriminate mode. Which has this feature, the ED-120 or ED-180 that you perfer as better??
The ED-180 accepts, in theory, the full upper 180 of the sine wave signals which can be considered to be ALL metal targets above ground rejection. ED-120 only accepts the upper 120 of this 180 arc. At the minimum discriminate setting it is still just a bit above common iron nail rejection. Functionally, an ED-120 discriminate circuit is fine for most people who want to reject iron nails and small small foil, etc. But to hunt in highly mineralized ground, and challenging places such as the black sand in our local volleyball sites or the pea gravel-filled tot lots, or our nasty mineralized river beaches in late summer at low water, you're best served with a full-range adjustable discriminate circuit.


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David
5) IYHO does the ED-120 handle rusty iron better than ED-180 as I have heard, or not??
Iron, rusty iron, small iron, big iron, there are just all sorts of iron challenges to deal with, and then you have to factor in the shape of man-made iron trash, too. As I stated, part of the ability to "handle" iron comes from being able to adjust the Discriminate so that it just barely rejects the most annoying iron issue at the site you're hunting.

But how the rest of the circuitry functions when processing the signal makes a difference as well. Some models, like the Tej鏮, is just noisier than other models, and because they are noisier in their processing, they don't reject some iron as well as other designs. An ED-120 will (should) reject most iron at the minimum setting. The ED-180 adjustment range designs let you fine tune he level of rejection for no iron, to getting rid of some iron to knocking out all iron ... but that doesn't mean it will be 'clean' rejection and quiet operation.

Monte


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Re: Vaquero vs Bandito umax
Posted by: ToddB64
Date: August 07, 2009 11:36PM
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Monte
The ED-180 accepts, in theory, the full upper 180 of the sine wave signals which can be considered to be ALL metal targets above ground rejection. ED-120 only accepts the upper 120 of this 180 arc. At the minimum discriminate setting it is still just a bit above common iron nail rejection. Functionally, an ED-120 discriminate circuit is fine for most people who want to reject iron nails and small small foil, etc. But to hunt in highly mineralized ground, and challenging places such as the black sand in our local volleyball sites or the pea gravel-filled tot lots, or our nasty mineralized river beaches in late summer at low water, you're best served with a full-range adjustable discriminate circuit.


Monte,

Above is your reply to Davids question #4 in his post dated July 18, 2009 05:55 PM. Very interesting ! Now I know that the 120 and 180 stand for degrees and I'm guessing the "D" represents Discrimination. Does the "S" represent Silent ?

Please advise.

Thanks,
Todd



Gamma 6000, Bandido ll 然ax and Compadre, Classic ll, Ace250, Vibra-Probe 570, Harbor Frt. Cen-Tech Pinpointer, Lesche Digger, Tabdog Hand Digger Replica, RatphonesMax headphones, Janster Coin Probe.

Re: Vaquero vs Bandito umax
Posted by: dirthound
Date: August 08, 2009 12:03PM
I have both I think both are exellent but I think the vaquero is much deeper and sharper on small gold,

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