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What DISC do you prefer?
Posted by: bd1024
Date: July 22, 2017 10:55AM
Hi everyone. -- I recently bought a black Vaquero, and am reading up on learning it, --- I have had it out for a couple of short hunts, and have found a few coins. --- I am 64 years old, and don't really enjoy spending a lot of time digging trash, so I have been running my DISC at 12:00 (nickel), and then rolling it up when I hit a target that sounds good. ---- I find that the zinc pennies disc out at about 5 o'clock, and I sometimes run it right on the edge of eliminating the zincs. -----Have been using the supertune posted by the Scannerguy on YouTube, (love his videos) -- My target of choice is silver, so I don't feel to bad about passing on nickels, and some jewelry, I may be wrong, but I think that the Vac will still ring in on class rings and wedding bands. ------I bought the ebook on "learning the tejon and vaquero", and picked up a few tips from that. ----- I am a somewhat experienced detectorist, currently have a Minelab 705 with various coils,--- a 505,--- a Makro Racer 2,--- a AT Pro with 5 coils,and recently sold my T2 SE, and Deus.--- It seems that the VDI detectors are limited to about 10" on a good day, (which is deep enough 99% of the time, but the target ID craps out at about 6-8", and starts identifying the targets as iron, and sounding like iron, though I am sure that I have missed a lot of silver relying on the "no brainer" VDI screen. ---- I have a lead on a used Lobo supertraq for $250, but have not made a decision on it. ---- I have purchased the NEL Sharpshooter coil for the Vac, and it seem to work well enough, though I think the stock 8x11 might get a little more depth, (but not much) ---From my experience, I don't think there have been any improvements in recovery depths for many years. ----Thought the FBS machines can get you a little more precise information on the identity of the target, I still dug trash with my Safari. ----I am pretty convinced at this point that the analog machines, and digging more targets, will increase my silver and jewelry finds. I started out metal detecting with a Tesoro Compadre years ago, and it looks like many years, and many thousands of dollars later, I am pretty much back where I started. ---------That being said, I really like my Minelab machines, ( the 705 and the 505 )----Thanks for listening, and I hope that there are more active members on this forum than on the others on this site!! --Any tips would be appreciated! Thanks

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Re: What DISC do you prefer?
Posted by: Architex
Date: July 22, 2017 11:25AM
IMHO you are right - more digging = more finds, as well as more trash. For the most part, at less than 8-9", TID can eliminate bad targets, not add good ones. More than 8=9" it's usually anybody's guess. At that depth you can get indications for sure but not absolutely positive ID.

I think the old adage applies - if you walk away from a hit wondering about it - go back and dig it.



One Man's Trash...........is what I usually find.

XP Deus / CTX 3030

Where are the diamond rings?.............They said there'd be diamond rings !.

Re: What DISC do you prefer?
Posted by: BarberBill
Date: July 22, 2017 12:16PM
I like to just accept nickels, cleanly.. I often set my disc by swinging over a nickel that is disced out, then turn back to where I just get a clean signal. This method puts me where I want it to be regardless of the printed knob marks.
BB



North Idaho - A bunch of Tesoros, 3 Whites, Gray Ghosts, Sunray probe
If you don't dig it, you'll never know!

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Re: What DISC do you prefer?
Posted by: Harold,ILL.
Date: July 22, 2017 03:59PM
That's One reason I love the Golden uMax. I can run the Disc. At Min. And let the Tones tell Me what to stop and Dig. Throw in Modulation to figure Depth estimate and I got a good Idea what and How Deep.
Love Hunting by Audio only.



Etrac
CZ-3D
Golden uMax

Re: What DISC do you prefer?
Posted by: Electricfrontporch
Date: July 22, 2017 05:43PM
I always try to start with the disc at minimum until
I figure out what trash I'm dealing with at the site.
Usually ends up between iron and foil and I dig all targets,
Until I've had my fill then switch to cherry picking.

When I'm trying to cherry pick I will turn the disc knob till a target goes away,
then turn it back till the target comes back in and only dig the
targets that go away and come in cleanly, without crackles and pops.

Noah

Re: What DISC do you prefer?
Posted by: bd1024
Date: July 22, 2017 06:59PM
Appreciate that, sounds like a good way to hunt. Thanks

Re: What DISC do you prefer?
Posted by: bd1024
Date: July 22, 2017 07:13PM
A correction on my post. ---The stock 8x11 DD coil is deeper than the Sharpshooter coil in my air test. --- It is 1" deeper on most coins,((8 to 9") but hits harder on the larger coins. ---It is 2" deeper on a silver quarter,(air tests at 10"vs 8")- --- 3" deeper on a .50c piece,(11" vs 8"), and 3" deeper on a large cent,(12" vs 9") --- tested at factory suggested air test for GB,--- Max Sens,--- Max Threshold, Disc straight up at 12:00 (nickel)

db1024, here are my responses regarding Discrimination settings and to your post.
Posted by: Monte
Date: July 25, 2017 08:00AM
Quote
bd1024
I am 64 years old, and don't really enjoy spending a lot of time digging trash,...
I'm 68, been detecting since March of '65, and I don't like to dig a lot of trash either. That said, I do listen to some trash, or I should say with some detectors I might be set to hear some trash, but I use search coil sweep techniques to help 'classify' many of them that are ferrous/iron based so I can ignore digging them.

Perfect all the time? No, but nothing is 'perfect' when it comes to detectors and detector design. It is up to the operator to learn how to get the most performance out of a detector,. and that includes control settings, Ground Balance, Sensitivity and Discrimination settings, search coil size/shape/type and sweep speed & coil presentation. Naturally it is also going to be dependent upon the type of site hunted and the type and amount of trash present.


Quote
bd1024
... so I have been running my DISC at 12:00 (nickel), and then rolling it up when I hit a target that sounds good. ---- I find that the zinc pennies disc out at about 5 o'clock, and I sometimes run it right on the edge of eliminating the zincs.
1st.. I never set out to run my Discrimination that high. I would be loosing detection a lot of gold jewelry and loose some depth especially on lower-conductive targets. I would also eliminate or reduce detection capability on many US 5¢ coins.

2nd.. I do not waste my time 'soloing the Disc.' control. If I wanted to reject mid-range to higher-conductive targets I would just set it thre in the first place. Sweeping across a targets while adjusting the Discriminate control will not provide highly reliable performance during rotation and with multiple opposing sweeps.

3rd.. I never want to increase to Zinc 1¢ rejection for several reasons. One is that you can lose some depth of detection. Two, most Indian Head Cents and many early issue Wheat-back Cents from 1909 to about 1920 share similar conductivity to the modern Zinc coin and I prefer not to inhibit older, good target detection.


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bd1024
Have been using the supertune posted by the Scannerguy on YouTube, (love his videos)
Interesting. I have watched Scannerguy1968's videos, including that on 'Supertuning' several times. His video on this actually goes beyond the subject of 'Supertuning.'

To 'Super-Tune,' which is a technique I was using with early Tesoro models and called 'Hyper-Tuning,' is simply a matter of bumping the Threshold control up towards or to maximum. Scannerguy's video also relates to adjusting the Ground balance to a slightly negative GB setting, but doesn't explain why. Tesoro Ground Balance adjustment, for most Tesoro models, is a completely different topic than 'super-tuning' and has to do with the way Tesoro designed the models with a somewhat positive GB offset in the Discriminate mode. The best GB adjustment comes from 'Power Balancing' which is a technique I have been using and training for about thirty-five years now..

Also, if I remember correctly, I saw his 'super-tuning' set-up done with a very high Disc. level setting. So really, his 'super-tuning' demonstration was more of a combined technique of eliminating lower-to-mid conductive targets, enhancing the performance by adjusting for a closer-to-peak Disc. mode GB, AND making use of the increased Threshold (super-tune) adjustment.


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bd1024
My target of choice is silver, so I don't feel to bad about passing on nickels, and some jewelry, I may be wrong, ...
If you mainly want higher conductive targets and plan to reject the US nickel (5¢) coins and above, consider that you will be rejecting virtually all gold jewelry and a good portion of silver jewelry as well.


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bd1024
... but I think that the Vac will still ring in on class rings and wedding bands.
Nope, not if you are running a higher Disc. setting. Yes, some larger class rings or wedding bands for men might still come through, depending upon how much Disc. you use, but you will be reducing the detection ability and depth of detection on those targets that are close to the 5¢ coin conductivity level.


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bd1024
I bought the ebook on "learning the tejon and vaquero", and picked up a few tips from that.
Just be aware that many books, magazine articles, forum posts and other 'suggestions' might not work as well as the writer states and might also be quite different if you change to a different size, shape or type of search coil, or of the site challenges are different.


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bd1024
I am a somewhat experienced detectorist, currently have a Minelab 705 with various coils,--- a 505,--- a Makro Racer 2,--- a AT Pro with 5 coils,and recently sold my T2 SE, and Deus.
Experience is good, and to be most 'experienced' we need to spend ample time afield and truly learn and master the detectors and coils we have. Of the models you listed, current and sold, I have had several Teknetics T2, 'classic' green and SE varieties, and I only liked them with the smaller 5" DD coil for Relic hunting very trashy sites. Never cared for the performance with their standard 11' BiAxial (DD) coil.

I also had the full initial set of Minelab X-Terra models, preferring the X-T 70 that morphed into the 705, but by 'preferring' I really liked what it offered over the 50 and it worked OK for some of the urban Coin Hunting I did ... but I let it go due to the more limited detection depth, the need for more of a controlled sweep speed and a few little quirks in its behavior and it lost out to the White's MXT Pro at the time.

I've used the rest of those you listed, and only the Makro Racer 2 remains in my personal detector arsenal, and it sees almost exclusive use in my hands with either the 'OOR' DD or the round 5¼" DD. The Regular-Use Detector Team I rely on is made up of 2 Nokat Impacts, 2 Nokta Relics, 2 Nokta CoRe's and 4 of my favorite Tesoro models. Note the Vaquero is now in the mix with the high-tone modification. It is the newer 'black' version Vaquero that came with the new 8X11 RSD DD coil, and my Vaquero keeps the round 6" Concentric coil mounted with the 8X11 on a spare lower rod for quick changes afield when needed.


Quote
bd1024
It seems that the VDI detectors are limited to about 10" on a good day, (which is deep enough 99% of the time, but the target ID craps out at about 6-8", and starts identifying the targets as iron, and sounding like iron, though I am sure that I have missed a lot of silver relying on the "no brainer" VDI screen.
Most of the sites I hunt you'll never get any coin-sized targets of silver, copper or most anything else at 9" or 10" because there is an excessive amount of shallower trash, especially iron based junk masking the deeper targets.

But you will find good 'keepe3rs' in amongst trash filled sites with all the detectors and coils I use, and I have used good Tesoro models to set the mark for achievement since July of '83. I do find some deeper-located targets in very favorable sites, but with over 52 years of avid experience and actually measuring coin depth, very seldom are coins much beyond what I consider typical 'deep' depths of 6"-8". Most of the time my best finds and most finds are, and have been, from surface to 4", maybe 5", in more recent years.


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bd1024
I have a lead on a used Lobo supertraq for $250, but have not made a decision on it.
I Have owned both the original Lobo and Lobo SuperTRAQ, and overall preferred the original Lobo. But that was back then and I would not even consider either of them compared with the more versatile performing Vaquero.


Quote
bd1024
I have purchased the NEL Sharpshooter coil for the Vac, and it seem to work well enough, though I think the stock 8x11 might get a little more depth, (but not much)
Yes, the 8X11 DD will get and should get slightly better depth. Just remember that target masking can hamper detection depth, and smaller coils provide better results. I'd recommend the 6" Concentric. Also, if you consider a mid-sized coil, and have the 8X9 Concentric and round 8" Concentric to pick from ... my vote also goes for the 8" Concentric coil.


Quote
bd1024
From my experience, I don't think there have been any improvements in recovery depths for many years. ----Thought the FBS machines can get you a little more precise information on the identity of the target, I still dug trash with my Safari. ----I am pretty convinced at this point that the analog machines, and digging more targets, will increase my silver and jewelry finds.
I agree with you, and having owned 7-9 FBS models from Minelab, I much prefer the better weight and balance and results afield with my current arsenal. I do use my Tesoro's quite often, too, and have the Vaquero, Bandido II microMAX, Impact and CoRe loaded right now for a quick couple of hours before the heat returns ... if I am lucky.


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bd1024
I started out metal detecting with a Tesoro Compadre years ago, and it looks like many years, and many thousands of dollars later, I am pretty much back where I started.
I have owned plenty of different detectors, but all the while for 34 years I have kept at least 1 to 4 Tesoro models on-hand in my arsenal. They can work well and I enjoy them.


Quote
bd1024
That being said, I really like my Minelab machines, ( the 705 and the 505 )----Thanks for listening, and I hope that there are more active members on this forum than on the others on this site!! --Any tips would be appreciated! Thanks
If you like those tow, then you really need to spend more time out there working the Makro Racer 2 and Tesoro Vaquero. These two models could make a great complement to provide an excellent 2-detector battery with a good coil set-up.

Just my opinions.

Monte



"Your EYES ... the only 100% accurate form of Discrimination!"

Stinkwater Wells
Trading Post

Metal Detector Evaluations and Product Reviews
'How-To' help for Coin & Jewelry Hunting, Relic Hunting and Useful Techniques.

My Regular-Use Detectors:
Nokta: Two each of the following: Impact, FORS Relic and FORS CoRe
Tesoro: Vaquero, Silver Sabre µMAX and Mojave
White's: MX7

Other Specialty-Use Detectors from:
Compass, Makro, Nokta, Tesoro and White's
Note: Detectors are listed alphabetically by Brand, NOT in my order of preference for use. Additional search coils on-hand in accessory bags.

Pinpointers: Using Nokta and Makro Pointers.
Headphones: Using White's Pro Star Headphones w/'tank style' ear cups.
Recovery Tools: Using White's Ground Hawg shovel and Digmaster digging tool

*** All working well today to make memories for tomorrow. ***

monte@stinkwaterwells.com .. or .. monte@ahrps.org
(503) 481-8147


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Re: What DISC do you prefer?
Posted by: slingshot
Date: July 25, 2017 10:54AM
I might also add Monte has an excellent article in cross checking targets from low discrimination to all metal and this was probably the closest to notch back in the 70's. A fellow named Ken Whitener was given credit for it and I believe the Tesoro Inca (?) was the model he was using. Sorry I couldn't find the post.

Re: What DISC do you prefer?
Posted by: pinenut
Date: July 25, 2017 02:12PM
Trashy area yesterday, disc set below nickel. I hate missing nickels and no point in passing up small gold either. Had I set disc any higher, I wouldn't have dug this nice 1912-D!
Dug plenty of melted blobs and tabs too, but also a junk ring, cool old USN belt buckle and plenty of clad. The higher I run disc, the less good stuff I get. I rarely run disc past the foil range.



one more wheatie..




Re: db1024, here are my responses regarding Discrimination settings and to your post.
Posted by: bd1024
Date: July 25, 2017 03:38PM
Thank you Monte for your tips and expertise. -----I do appreciate it, and will slowly work my way into detecting with less disc as I learn more about the Vacquero. ------Thanks!

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Re: What DISC do you prefer?
Posted by: Stoof-tabsallday
Date: July 26, 2017 01:58AM
I start as low as I can tolerate.
On 180 machines, just past where a nail discs out.
On 120ish machines, dang near lowest disc.

I usually stay hunting here as long as I can stand it and dig trash with the treasure.
I do thumb the disc but I'm starting to see it's a waste of time. 98% of the time no matter what It shows I dig anyway.

Later in the hunt as I get more tired I may turn up the disc more, but if I do that, I'll usually recheck that area next hunt with lower disc.
I hate the idea of missing anything.



Stefan (Michigan)

Nokta Fors Relic 7x11", 5.5x10"DD, 5", 5.5x10 Concentric


Makro Racer 2 - 7x11", 5.5x10", 5" DD


:tesoro: Mojave
:tesoro: Deleon - Troy shadow super 7",
:tesoro: Compadre 8
:tesoro: Compadre 5.75
:tesoro: Bandido II Micromax
:tesoro: Outlaw
:tesoro: Cibola- GB/all metal toggle mod
:tesoro: Vaquero
:tesoro: Cutlass Micromax 8

Lots of coils

*Not listed in any special order*

Tools:
Garrett carrot, lesche shovel, Killer B Wasps, my bare hands

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Re: What DISC do you prefer?
Posted by: Mega
Date: July 26, 2017 05:22AM
I only use the smallest amount of discrimination if at all really,if you start even knocking out say foil etc i stand a chance of missing our silver hammered coins which come in the foil range,mine is the UK version of the Vaquero which runs @18.75khz and is red hot on small cut halves and quarter hammereds.

If i am on a roman sit that has some hob nails from roman shoes then i can dial in just a little more discrimination,fine tweak the disc setting according to the site conditions,the 11x8 coil came with the detector is mainly only used for open clean sites but for the most part on sites with alot of human activity or habitation then i mainly use the NEL Snake coil when mounted on the Vaquero it makes a deadly combination especially on small finds.



Deus and Nexus MP main everyday detectors

Displays on a Detector are really the equivalent of relying on sub-titles,give me a Analogue machine anyday.

Some of my site specific use machines.
TDI Pro 20'' Mono
Nexus SE dual 9'' coil
Nexus MP 14x13
Fisher TW-5 twin box
Crossbow PI 14x9 Mono
Mirage PI 5'' Mono
DFX 18'' Detech
T2 SEF15x12
IDX Pro 15'' Concentric
Arado120b
B1 and B3
Trident11 Extreme NEL Snake


Mainly hunt deep ploughed and pasture sites,trashy roman/saxon and celtic permissions.

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Re: What DISC do you prefer?
Posted by: REVIER
Date: July 26, 2017 07:30AM
Quote
Electricfrontporch
I always try to start with the disc at minimum until
I figure out what trash I'm dealing with at the site.
Usually ends up between iron and foil and I dig all targets,
Until I've had my fill then switch to cherry picking.

When I'm trying to cherry pick I will turn the disc knob till a target goes away,
then turn it back till the target comes back in and only dig the
targets that go away and come in cleanly, without crackles and pops.

Noah

This.
I have been doing it this way for years using a Vaq, a Compadre and now a Mojave.
Found a ton of great treasure, dig a relatively small volume of trash since switching to this method and have a great fun time doing it this way.
I might miss a few things here and there but I no longer care...I don't believe I am, what I don't know about no longer bothers me and I hunt sites more than once so I figure what I miss on one hunt I will find on another.
Plus my track record and volume of great finds is more than satisfying.



"What if doing the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?”
F70, F2, Compadre, Mojave, Judge2 - 2017....Clad, 15 silver targets including a freaking Barber quarter, a beautiful walker and 4 V nickels...
Plus other cool stuff.

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