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metal detecting in Italy
Posted by: artifactjack
Date: April 02, 2013 08:59PM
Does anybody have information on metal detecting in Italy? My brother in law lives in Italy and is interested in doing some metal detecting there. Any suggestions would be appreciated. He is absolutely new to the hobby; I would like to get him started in the right direction and keep him out of jail...

Thank you,
AJ

Re: metal detecting in Italy
Posted by: Nauti Neil
Date: April 03, 2013 08:06AM
AJ,as you can imagine,italy has many important historical sites a list of which can be obtained through government organisations.Any detecting on these sites is stictly forebidden.However,any land falling outside these restrictions can be detected along with the landowners consent.....like anywhere really.Sometimes there can be local restrictions so depending on where your brother in law lives he needs to contact the local authority to find out.....these restrictions are sometimes in force due to the large quantity of ordinance left over from the second world war.These two rules need to be strictly adhered to otherwise he could either land in trouble with the law or land about 100 yards away from where he was originally detecting:surprised:Joking aside there is some brilliant detecting over there....you just have to make sure you are following correct procedure.
All the best,neil.

Re: metal detecting in Italy
Posted by: Tom_in_CA
Date: April 03, 2013 01:49PM
nauti neil is right: Anything "dire-sounding" you might read on this site:

http://www.ncmd.co.uk/law.html#ITALY

would apply to govt. land, not private farmer's lands with permission. And .... heck ... assuming he can deduce/research the oldest areas of continual cultivations (or where old villages, cross-roads, trading posts, etc...) used to be, then simply hunting farmer's fields can be productive in countries (or zones of countries) that are that old. Afterall, that's basically what they do in England afterall. Simply d/t continuous cultivation over 2000+ yrs, there will be bound to be fumble fingers drops over time. But better to find out where there was actual habitation, markets, etc.... as opposed to just mere cultivation, when possible.

Not sure what to make of the part of that link about alerting the govt. if you find something "archaeological". I know that when it comes to England, it has to be a very monumentous find, to rank up into that category. Ie.; even gold coins (singular anyhow) don't merit that "archaeological importance" status. I mean, they'd be talking about finding caches, or evidences of a past pyramaid, or something that scale. And I don't know where they get the part about "selling of objects over 50 yrs. old". I mean, even right now, people are buying and selling European (and yes, Italian) coins that are over 50 yrs. old. A Simple look at ebay would show that, for example. Not sure how anyone would know whether it was dug or found with a metal detector, nor is it likely anyone follows you around fields deducing the age of your coins with a calculator. Bottom line is, detectors are there, even dealers, clubs, etc... and .... they are obviously enjoying the hobby :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2013 01:50PM by Tom_in_CA.

Re: metal detecting in Italy
Posted by: Nauti Neil
Date: April 03, 2013 02:20PM
Tom,you are spot on to what most of us do in England.Basically any village with history,which is most of them,will throw up Roman and medieval coins and artefacts if thoroughly searched.I would imagine that Italy would be even more productive in general......i certainly would'nt mind a little detect there.

Re: metal detecting in Italy
Posted by: skookum
Date: April 03, 2013 05:38PM
Hi,
I live in Europe. Germany to be precise.
Problem over here is that most places that have seen activity over centuries have since been covered with cobble stones, concrete or they



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Blue Max 950 and Bullseye 5.3 coils for the Whites
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Re: metal detecting in Italy - reply
Posted by: Tom_in_CA
Date: April 04, 2013 03:48PM
skookum, you say:

"Britain has very liberal laws in regards to metal detecting, Most other European countries do not."

But on the other hand, you say that in Germany, tons of private land (farmers fields, for instance). Then .... can't you avail yourself of simply going to those farmer's fields with permission? Because those would be "outside" the laws that govern govt. land. The British system (that you call liberal and friendly) is actually also very dire, when it comes to public land. So for example, in Britian, they don't hunt public parks like we can in the USA (and maybe not even public beaches there?). They ONLY hunt farmers fields. So too could you do in Germany, and not have a problem, right? I mean, what the farmer does with his OWN land, is his own friggin perogrative, I would assume. If his wife lost her wedding ring in the field, what's to stop him or you from looking for it?

Re: metal detecting in Italy
Posted by: Robert2300
Date: April 04, 2013 04:04PM
Just knock on some doors and ask permission. And remember
to smile when you ask.(:-)
Robert

Re: metal detecting in Italy
Posted by: Nauti Neil
Date: April 05, 2013 06:34AM
Tom,you are correct again in thinking that we do not have liberal laws regarding detecting.Like you say we cannot just go and detect in a public park without permission and many councils will not give permission to search park areas.As for beaches we do not really have a problem unless there is a sign up actually saying no detecting.Some of our beaches are owned by the crown which you do need a crown foreshore license to detect on.....this is free however.Inland sites is a case of knocking doors for permission.
Regards,neil.

Re: metal detecting in Italy
Posted by: Tom_in_CA
Date: April 05, 2013 12:10PM
Neil,

About 6 or 8 yrs. ago, I ran a forum classified ad for a particular type older model Fisher detector (one of their mid 1980's models, which they no longer make). I got a reply from some in Spain. At first, I didn't want to deal with someone over-seas, and have to fiddle with the shipping, etc... But in-lieu of no other replies to my ad, and in-lieu of the fact that the fellow was pre-paying everything, including any extra cost to go over-seas, I had no reason to decline selling to the fellow. He explained that this particular model was popular for where he and his buddies hunt, and .... those american products (especially out-of-production ones), were simply only now available at the classifieds, of course.

So as he and I cemented our deal, and I got ready to ship .... I couldn't help but wonder "gee, metal detecting in SPAIN?". Because ... you see .... I had seen Spain listed as one of the ... uh ... "dire sounding" countries on this website listing a bunch of European countries:

http://www.ncmd.co.uk/law.html#SPAIN

Now, .... the average person reading such text, would naturally come away with the impression that it's not allowed there, RIGHT? And that they could be "arrested" right? blah blah blah. So ..... I couldn't resist. I just *had to ask* the fellow: "How can you detect there? I thought it was illegal?" And I linked him to that link, so as to play the "devil's advocate", haha.

He emailed me back the answer, that, I began to wonder is not widespread around the world, for a lot of places that you might find "dire wording" or "outright no's" passed out by lawyers or bureaucrats who have answered such questions put in front of them. I mean, afterall, that's how such lists get assembled in the first place, right? Someone inquires, a consulate or border lawyer or govt. official or whatever answers, right? And so someone compiles a list of all such responses, to create these compendium lists, right? I mean, who-better-to-ask, than the country themselves, right? Afterall, you don't want to "get in trouble", right?

His answer was, that if you read that closely (in the context of which it was written, which is, afterall, about public land), that any such thing you read on there is ... doh ... about public land. Thus they detect farmers lands, with permission, and never have a problem. He also added that *realistically* all such antiquities things have been "in effect" meant to apply to sensitive monuments, archaeological sites, etc.... And quite frankly, he added: Most of the time they're so far back in the woods, there's no one around to care less.

I mean, if you or I ask ANY public official if you can metal detect there, what land does that 'public official" officiate over? PUBLIC LAND. Not private land. Thus the same could be said if you asked enough govt. officials in the USA too: "can I metal detect?", you might have someone allude to ARPA, or state park rules about cultural heritage, etc... And sure enough, some people have mis-interpretted such things to think "oh no, I can't detect in my state anywhere", etc.... But using that as an example, we all know that in spite of dire sounding federal and state level laws, that detecting is common place here.

Therefore, whenever I read through that list of European sites laws, or read when someone on a forum says "you can't metal detect at such & such place", I often wonder if it's not this mis-interpretation, or the old "no one cared till you asked" routine, on a larger national scale.

Re: metal detecting in Italy
Posted by: skookum
Date: April 05, 2013 05:32PM
Hi,
In Britain the archaeologists have a much more liberal attitude when it comes to working with the citizens.
This attitude does not prevail throughout Germany.
Matter of fact is that in some provinces ANY artifact that is dug out of the ground automatically belongs to the state/province.
They will assess it and you may get a small reward - should you not report your find this is illegal and punished with very stiff fines should you be caught.
Private property or not - it doesn



Whites XLT , Whites 6000 Di Pro SL , Whites Classic III Plus , Fisher 1270
Blue Max 950 and Bullseye 5.3 coils for the Whites
10,5 - 8 - 5 inch coils for the 1270
Garrett Pro Pointer

*** The only detector that can truly tell trash from treasure is a shovel ***

Re: metal detecting in Italy
Posted by: Tom_in_CA
Date: April 06, 2013 12:56PM
ok, fair enough. You're right: Some countries have a law that "everything under the ground" belongs the govt. Britain, for example, is one of them. Anything (resources, mineral rights, etc...) belong "to the queen". Yet detecting is common-place there, as you know. Now of course, as you also know, they don't care anything about individual coins (even gold ones! even 2000 yr. old ones! etc...). They only care about, and take (with proper recompense) hoards or something truly worthy. Is that to say that the "queen" doesn't "own" (have rights to) the invidual coins those British md'rs find? No. She/they do have rights. It's just that they don't care, and will laugh you off the steps of the museum, and tell you to keep it.

Mexico is another country which .... technically ... .also has such laws. That's why if you own land in Mexico, and OIL is discovered under your land, ...... you're not going to be rich. The govt. comes in, kicks you off your land (or takes it, or buys you out with a pittance, or perhaps "allows" you to continue living there), while they drill for the oil, and you get nothing. (I suppose that oil example would apply to Britain too, eh?). Contrast to the United States, and if you found oil on your land, presto, you're going to be a millionare :)

HOWEVER, even inspite of such laws, metal detectors are a common site on Mexican tourist beaches. And in-land too. Even though ... "technically" (just like Britain), all those "resources" under the ground, belong to Mexico.

Therefore, when someone cites such rules (like you're doing for Germany) you have to take into account the actual-in-practice *realistic* attitude going on. And if you don't .... and "assume" all such verbage prohibits you from metal detecting, then .... you're going to be surprised indeed, when you leave your detector at home, yet show up on your holiday vacation in Germany, only to see that others are detecting, dealers exist, clubs exist, etc... Huh? How then are they doing it? Do they not keep anything? Do they give all their stuff to the govt.?

Here's the rub though: If enough of those German md'rs go seeking clarification (because yes, technically such things *could* apply), it would only be a matter of time, before some German govt. archie is "pressed with answering this question", and will implement specific prohibitions. Thus .... sometimes ... less visibility, scrutiny, and dumb questions are best for our hobby.

Re: metal detecting in Italy
Posted by: skookum
Date: April 07, 2013 06:10PM
Hi Tom in Ca,
I do not live in Britain nor in Mexico.
I have to obey the laws as they are here - because I am a memeber of a small community and run my own business.
I have absolutely no desire to run around like a sniveling little thief with one foot in jail.
This would take all the pleasure out of an otherwise very enjoyful hobby - and this is what metal detecting means to me.
It is a nice way to spend time outdoors and pursue something that I like doing.
Nothing less and nothing more.
If I can invest a few thou in equipment I sure have the means to buy any permit needed.
That amounts to small change.
I consider myself a "straight shooter" and that



Whites XLT , Whites 6000 Di Pro SL , Whites Classic III Plus , Fisher 1270
Blue Max 950 and Bullseye 5.3 coils for the Whites
10,5 - 8 - 5 inch coils for the 1270
Garrett Pro Pointer

*** The only detector that can truly tell trash from treasure is a shovel ***

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