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Robin I understand the SE doesn't work for you but it does for me and many others.
Posted by: Bryce-IL
Date: February 23, 2012 09:00AM
The fact is that for whatever reason you interpereted the signals over iron and deep coins differently than you did when using the EX2.

It doesn't mean you necessarily got a bad one. It simply means you did not prefer what you heard over iron, etc.

You got to know your EX2 very well and simply preferred what you hear over iron with that machine.

To me and many others it's the opposite.

I AGREE 100%...the sound isn't the same over said targets when using one machine or the other.

The fact is though...that it shouldn't be...just as those sounds are not the same when using the E-Trac instead of the SE....and again they shouldn't be.

While the SE and EX2 are explorers they are different machines with diffferent processors...and react slightly different over iron and other targets.

If we are able to interperet those signals as good vs bad or visa versa...then we praise and love that detector.

If we aren't...then we feel we got a "bad" one. You just simply prefer what the EX2 says over iron instead of what the SE says.

I'm the same way with my SE compared to the E-Trac....although many others would disagree.

I understand your frustration because I was one of the few who DID get an SE lemon from the start.

Here is a post I made over 4 years ago about my lemon jobber...lol.

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?10,488257,490509#msg-490509

I prefer my SE over the EX2 and "newer tecnology" of the E-Trac HANDS DOWN!

Doesn't mean I got a bad E-Trac or that it doesn't handle deep coins next to iron as well as my SE.

It simply means that my SE (4 different ones) handles deep iron better than my 2 different E-Tracs...for ME

There are a zillion guys who went from the SE to the E-Trac and feel it's much better in iron than BOTH the EX2 and the SE. I'm NOT one of them.

I spent years on the EX2 and SE training my ears to interperet what I MYSELF consider a "dig me" me signal...so what the E-Trac says is or isn't...doesn't sound the same or better to me than my SE. I think your experience with EX2 and SE is similar to mine with the SE and E-Trac. No harm no foul. It is what it is for both of us.

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Big Fang Coin Biter
Bryce,
You may be right - I never learned the differences between a good sounding nail and a good sounding indian head cent, both down at nine inches. To me they sounded completely the same!! Maybe it was a lemon, maybe my hearing isn't that good, I do not know. I truly wish I could say the SE worked better, can't do it though.
HH - BF

Robin you did learn the differences between those sounds down 9"...but with the EX2 and not the SE because you found the "dig me" signal that worked for you..

I respect your opinion because I have the same opinion AND experience with the E-Trac...but it doesn't mean the the SE might not be a step up from the EX2...and the E-Trac might not be a step up from the SE. It simply means that YOU and ME feel they are not because we have both spent a zillion hours learning our preferred machines AND the language each speaks to us over iron.:thumbup:

I've seen your finds and pics over the years:thumbup:...and it's obvious you know the EX2 WELL.:beers:

On that same token my finds and pics of previously masked silver speak volumes of the SE's capabilities in heavy iron.

There is no need for you to learn a different sound over iron than what you prefer with the EX2. You have that EX2 sound DOWN SOLID:beers:

PS: My offer still stands I made to you over a year ago on that coil you wanted to try. Just let me know.:thumbup:



Here's the link to my field test post containing over 60 different hunts of various coil tests...field tests published in Western & Eastern Treasures Magazine...comparisons...nicer finds...etc..:
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?19,1055627,1055627#msg-1055627

Been swingin' the coil since 1972

Started out in 1972 with a Jetco Detector...then the late 70's with a Whites 6000:whites:....then in 1981 went to a Bounty Hunter VLF TR 840:bounty:

Then in the early 1980's I went to a Whites 6000 Di Pro:whites:...mid 80's I went to a Whites Eagle II SL:whites:...Late 80's/Early 90's I went to the Whites XLT:whites:

1990's I used the Fisher CZ5, CZ6, CZ7, 7aPro, and CZ70Pro (still have)...and am currently doing some water hunting with my CZ-21:fisher:...

Started using Minelabs in 1999:minelab:

with a brief stint on the Musketeer while also using the CZ's...then in 2002 I switched to the Minelab Explorers and currently use the Explorer SE Pro as my main machine. I also use the Explorer 2 and E-trac often... and have a CTX3030 I use as a backup:minelab: Might also mention I have an arsenal of coils for the Explorers:thumbup:


"Metal detecting is an escape for me and allows me to find some much needed peace and solace.
Being able to clear my head...even if only for that short while...is much more meaningful than any amount of finds that end up in my pouch"
:angel: "Quote ME"



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2012 09:38AM by Bryce-IL.

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Re: You are right Elton...
Posted by: Elton
Date: February 23, 2012 10:25AM
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Big Fang Coin Biter
I am glad the SE works great for you! My experience is only with one SE and it could have been a lemon.

I thank you for the response BFCB..... Not sure there ever is a right or wrong on what works for each of us.... Sometimes it may just be our mindset on which one produces for us, and when one does we bear down a little stronger with it and find better coins.

I will repeat this one thing though. Bryce Brown made the difference for me with the Se pro.. As I stated the man hung in there with me from day one.Never giving up on guiding me through the learning curve. " Darn I bet he hated seeing my Pm's"....

I did find the Se pro worked better from the get go, and I was better able to get results with the Pro. I do really believe that some detectors work better in different areas......... with Bryce's patience I was able to figure out with his guidance how to get the better results with the Se Pro over the other two detectors.. From the outstanding finds I have seen you post up..For you, and your area the Exp II is the machine that gets it done for you.. I'm happy you found the one for you too... Your top notch people, Your also a detectorist with proven results whom I have admired greatly..

I'm just glad They make machines we can each use and get good results..I hope as time passes another machine can give me the same results as ours get old and can't be fixed and or replaced..
orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr We better buy a couple more and set them aside for the future LOL............:rofl:



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Re: Robin I understand the SE doesn't work for you but it does for me and many others.
Posted by: Big Fang Coin Biter
Date: February 24, 2012 05:43AM
Thanks Bryce! So you are saying that three-quarters of a square nail down at 9" gives you high tone that you can hear as iron? Are you using conductive tones? Are you listening to the little rough edge trail-off or what? I was able to ID the above in ferrous tones, but that is not my preferred hunting mode. Tell me what you listen for on the deep questionable signals.
BF

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Thanks Elton!N/T
Posted by: Big Fang Coin Biter
Date: February 24, 2012 05:45AM

(This message does not contain any text.)


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Re: Robin I understand the SE doesn't work for you but it does for me and many others.
Posted by: Bryce-IL
Date: February 24, 2012 09:53AM
Robin...3/4 of a nail at 9" deep will either null for me...or give a slight, intermittent chirp trying to fool me as a coin.

That's when I investigate that initial /false/chirp further to see if I "like" what I hear.

I can usually tell real fast whether it's just an iron false/chirp or possibly a chance of a coin in there with said iron chirp I want to further investigate.

Do I know....NO:biggrin:...but I check that false/chirp real fast...and in that quick pass or 2 with the coil I decide whether to walk or to investigate further.

IF I decide to investigate further here's what I do:

Hit that false/chirp/signal from 4 angles as I do a 360 degree circle around the undug target.

I usually use quick, short, "minelab wiggle" types of passes (4 or 5 passes AND return passes) from each angle...then turn another 90 degrees and repeat...then again until I have hit it from at least 4 angles.

If I can get the sweet high warble to repeat from 2 of those 4 angles and the warble doesn't "break up" in any way...I'm digging.

If I don't get get a consistent, repeating warble on both the pass and return pass from 2 of the 4 angles...I walk.

Now to throw another cog in the iron wheel:biggrin:...Honestly there are a times when I will be able to get a repeating warble on only 1 angle out of the 4 BUT that warble is so sweet AND repeating like clockwork on each pass and return pass 5 or 6 times in a row that I'll give it a shot.:thumbup:

Does it always work...NOPE:bouncy:. I do dig a few rusty nails every now and then BUT I made the choice to give it a shot before I dug the already iffy signal.

Honestly though Robin I don't dig much iron...and on occasion I will pop out some silver or injun's hiding in there with that iron as my finds and pics show.



Here's the link to my field test post containing over 60 different hunts of various coil tests...field tests published in Western & Eastern Treasures Magazine...comparisons...nicer finds...etc..:
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?19,1055627,1055627#msg-1055627

Been swingin' the coil since 1972

Started out in 1972 with a Jetco Detector...then the late 70's with a Whites 6000:whites:....then in 1981 went to a Bounty Hunter VLF TR 840:bounty:

Then in the early 1980's I went to a Whites 6000 Di Pro:whites:...mid 80's I went to a Whites Eagle II SL:whites:...Late 80's/Early 90's I went to the Whites XLT:whites:

1990's I used the Fisher CZ5, CZ6, CZ7, 7aPro, and CZ70Pro (still have)...and am currently doing some water hunting with my CZ-21:fisher:...

Started using Minelabs in 1999:minelab:

with a brief stint on the Musketeer while also using the CZ's...then in 2002 I switched to the Minelab Explorers and currently use the Explorer SE Pro as my main machine. I also use the Explorer 2 and E-trac often... and have a CTX3030 I use as a backup:minelab: Might also mention I have an arsenal of coils for the Explorers:thumbup:


"Metal detecting is an escape for me and allows me to find some much needed peace and solace.
Being able to clear my head...even if only for that short while...is much more meaningful than any amount of finds that end up in my pouch"
:angel: "Quote ME"

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Re: Read all these posts.............. Wow My experience was a little different
Posted by: Larry (IL)
Date: February 24, 2012 12:42PM
If Bryce had a dollar for everyone he has helped over the years, he could retire.......:biggrin: Thanks Bryce.



Bells and whistles are nice, but nothing will substitute for the basic understanding of the hobby.

:minelab: CTX 3030, :whites: V3i, :whites: Pro XL :tesoro: Cibola/modified

:ukflag:Re: Question on explorer's
Posted by: JAN1
Date: February 24, 2012 12:43PM
Glad to hear that I am not the only one that doesn't rate the SE.
After reading lots of articles on detectors looking for a spare machine I believed all the hype, after two years and many hours in fields and beaches I have yet to find anything much.
I have tried loads of different settings and bought Andy's book to no avail.

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Re: Robin I understand the SE doesn't work for you but it does for me and many others.
Posted by: Big Fang Coin Biter
Date: February 25, 2012 06:11AM
Brice that is exactly what I do with my Explorer II. The SE I had did not work that way at all. It would give me the good tone all the way around a target - dig it up and it was iron... When I got tired after hunting hours, I would start passing up the deep good signals since the percentage of good finds from that signal was so low (what a thing to do!). Oh well, glad I went back to what works for me. Now once the snow melts I can do some digging again.
Thanks and HH - Robin

Did you ever see that barber I found with the two square nails in the same hole? It was one of those too good sounding one-way hits (nulled at 90 deg.). Check it out, the small nail chunk was in the front of the hole at about 3" the dime was in the center at about 4-5" and the large nail was in the back of the hole at about 7". I was shocked with these finds (using the XS my first Explorer).




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Robin here's just a couple examples of how the SE does for me in iron.
Posted by: Bryce-IL
Date: February 25, 2012 07:08AM
I have a few more...but have to open up the gym this morning in a few minutes...so it's off to work I go.

To be honest...at least once every couple of hunts the SE finds me a coin hinding in iron simlilar to what the links show....and by using the exact "dig or don't dig" method we both described.

Take care...and good luck in 2012.

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?19,1425527,1425527#msg-1425527

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?19,1635113,1635113#msg-1635113



Here's the link to my field test post containing over 60 different hunts of various coil tests...field tests published in Western & Eastern Treasures Magazine...comparisons...nicer finds...etc..:
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?19,1055627,1055627#msg-1055627

Been swingin' the coil since 1972

Started out in 1972 with a Jetco Detector...then the late 70's with a Whites 6000:whites:....then in 1981 went to a Bounty Hunter VLF TR 840:bounty:

Then in the early 1980's I went to a Whites 6000 Di Pro:whites:...mid 80's I went to a Whites Eagle II SL:whites:...Late 80's/Early 90's I went to the Whites XLT:whites:

1990's I used the Fisher CZ5, CZ6, CZ7, 7aPro, and CZ70Pro (still have)...and am currently doing some water hunting with my CZ-21:fisher:...

Started using Minelabs in 1999:minelab:

with a brief stint on the Musketeer while also using the CZ's...then in 2002 I switched to the Minelab Explorers and currently use the Explorer SE Pro as my main machine. I also use the Explorer 2 and E-trac often... and have a CTX3030 I use as a backup:minelab: Might also mention I have an arsenal of coils for the Explorers:thumbup:


"Metal detecting is an escape for me and allows me to find some much needed peace and solace.
Being able to clear my head...even if only for that short while...is much more meaningful than any amount of finds that end up in my pouch"
:angel: "Quote ME"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2012 07:23AM by Bryce-IL.

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SE works best for me after trying the explorer2
Posted by: Dave-IL
Date: February 25, 2012 08:09AM
I just do better in iron with it. I used Bryce's ex2 for many weeks before trying his SE and the SE just did better at telling the truth about whether its iron or not.



:minelab:Minelab Explorer SE, Explorer 2 and ctx3030 as a backup:minelab:

"Everybody pities the weak; jealousy you have to earn."
- Arnold Schwarzenegger (1947-)

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Re: Question on explorer's
Posted by: deeponedge
Date: February 26, 2012 10:15PM
This is a great thread with some great information.



:minelab: Explorer SE, EX2, E-Trac, ctx3030 as my backupand whatever else works:minelab:

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
- Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968

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Re: Question on explorer's
Posted by: EladSwerdna
Date: February 28, 2012 08:00AM
What many people fail to grasp is that it's not just about what machine you use or how you use it.... location and luck play a huge role in being a successful dirt fisher.

I switched from an E-Trac to the SE Pro. (financial reasons forced me to sell E-Trac, got the SE because it's cheaper)

I have been using an SE Pro for 2 months now, and so far I have found:
  • 9 Indian Head Pennies
  • 1 Barber dime
  • 1 walking liberty half
  • a 1791 duit
  • a 1775 KGIII
  • a 1797 half real
  • loads of buttons, including one blowhole and 2 military
  • random silver, to include a spoon, washington quarter, and brooch
  • a box full of random relics

Do I miss the E-Trac? Yes, but only because I feel like have masted it. The SE Pro is a great machine, and continues to impress me. If I had a chance I would go back to an E-Trac, but I am very happy with the SE.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2012 08:12AM by EladSwerdna.

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Re: Question on explorer's
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: February 29, 2012 12:31PM
Bryce and Big Fang --

I read your posts here with great interest, the ones related to differentiating the partially-masked coins (deep coins next to nails), vs. deep nails "falsing," but with no coin.

I have finally gotten good at telling the difference between a pure false and a pure coin, BUT -- I have NOT gotten good at picking out the coins FROM AMONGST the iron (i.e. what is a "good-sounding" false, vs. what is a nail/coin that is "acting much like" a false).

What I mean is, I know what "falses" sound like, in general. BUT -- every time I try to dig a "more-than-likely-to-be iron false" sound, thinking it sounds JUST GOOD ENOUGH to maybe be a coin, it is --100% of the time, for me -- a NAIL (usually, a bent one).

So, I have to agree with Fang on this one...chasing deep "iffies," mixed with nulls, for me -- results in nails.

Bryce, your method you described matches almost exactly what I do -- i.e. passing right over the obvious falses, investigating for a couple of seconds the "slightly better sounding" falses, until they become obvious falses, and then I walk, but then, on the REALLY intriguing "iffies," doing the 360 degree turn around the target, with the "Minelab wiggle," listening for repeatability and consistency. Now, when doing this, you say that if it repeats a good, consistent sound for you from 2 of 4 directions, you dig. For me, if it repeats from two of four directions, I DON'T dig, especially if those "two directions" are directly opposite sides of the "compass" from each other (i.e. the "repeats" are north and south, and the "nulls" are east and west, or vice versa). I DON'T dig these, as, again, 100% of the time, these have been nails, for me. IF it repeats from 3 of 4 directions, and IF there is not a consistent null in that one "bad" direction, then I will dig, and have had some success doing so, on occasion. But if it nulls consistently in one or more directions, I have never had it be a coin. Ever. Also, I have tried those hits that repeat from only one direction, but sound REALLY GOOD from that one direction (again, as long as there are not "nulls" from the other directions), and again, 100% of the time, nail. So, while it would be easy to conclude that I have learned to do a great job of "not digging" nails, the problem of course is that I also never dig those coin/nail combined targets!

I KNOW that if I want to hit a "masked" coin, that I WILL have to dig hits that null in at least one direction; I fully expect that this is what a co-located coin/nail will do. BUT, as of yet, I haven't been able to have any success at all, doing so, which tells me I'm digging the WRONG "iffies," and not hearing the subtleties that I need to hear which hint that a coin/nail may be a bit higher probability, vs. just a bent rusty nail.

One question -- are you doing this technique, Bryce, with the 10x12 SEF, and NOT the Pro coil? That could be some of the difference (I use the Pro coil), and if so, that's enough reason for me to consider the 10x12 SEF. Fang -- I assume your "inability" to succed with the SE Pro was with the Pro coil? I know, Bryce, that you have said you like the SEF "much better in iron;" is this maybe what you are referring to exactly, where the difference lies between the two -- in separating the "PURE" nail falses, from the nail/coin targets?

Thanks,

Steve



Minelab Explorer SE Pro, Fisher Gold Bug Pro (DP)
Garrett ProPointer
Lesche 38D "King of Spades"

Norman, OK

Re: Question on explorer's
Posted by: Orlensin-FL
Date: March 08, 2012 12:03PM
I think they are all great units mate. There are obviously some differences as has been pointed out but this is a great bunch of informaton in this post.

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