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can a detectorist ask for to much permission ?
Posted by: WaterHound
Date: March 12, 2017 12:30PM
That's my question ? The reason is recently I came across the Huron Manistee National Forest rules and regulations for metal detecting in Michigan at the parks and beaches and campgrounds .and it says that you can metal detect at beaches and swim areas but ! You can keep only coins and jewelry that are 50 years old or less ,no historical sites and you have to get a permit for anything else. Well after reading that and finding nice places to hunt on Google Earth I decided to make sure it was okay ,so I called the main office and asked a person who answered the phone and she said yes it's okay well I asked her if I could talk to her supervisor because I wanted to make sure what the rules were, and he said I could metal detect but I could not do any digging because the local bone digger told them that the historical layer is just inches under the surface ,and I asked him couldn't we use just a little trowel and he said no but if I seen a quarter sticking halfway out of the ground I could dig that by hand , of course on their website none of that stuff was mentioned it just said it was okay and it seems like that they would realize that detectorist are looking for things that are under the surface most the time ,and now I am thinking I should have just went with the first permission from the secretary just went with the regulations on the website and had those things available if I ever was question about it at a beach by an officer . yet when beach goers dig sand castles they leave holes that are sometimes two to three feet deep and they use diggers and detectorist fill their holes and take out a lot of sharp metal junk, jealous bone diggers ! I am very thankful that my experiences with Michigan DNR officers have all been good ones ,so asking too much permission is probably a reality and even if I have permission I should probably use the detector I don't mind losing . or just stay away because in Michigan there are a lot of other places two do the hobby

Re: can a detectorist ask for to much permission ?
Posted by: Gerry
Date: March 12, 2017 02:19PM
First rule of thumb when asking questions, when you get the answer you want stop asking. You will find usually the government underlings have common sense, the supervisors got to be supervisors not for common sense but being political --- kissers.
Just my opinion, after working at the same place for 36.5 years.

Gerry

Re: can a detectorist ask for to much permission ?
Posted by: WaterHound
Date: March 12, 2017 04:10PM
Thanks Gerry, I will definitely follow your good advice ,

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Re: can a detectorist ask for to much permission ?
Posted by: bootyhoundpa
Date: March 12, 2017 07:11PM
Lesson learned...umm? It's a fine line we walk in the publics eye.. even where permitted sometimes less busy times are best ... out of sight out of mind... sad part is there is a slim chance the no digging rule might have been one those more less forgotten rules. But is on the front burner now..

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Re: can a detectorist ask for to much permission ?
Posted by: Doc Holliday
Date: March 13, 2017 09:49AM
If kids can dig and build sand castles at the beach, you should be allowed to dig, also. Exact same thing, it's not like you're bringing in a backhoe....and, if asked, I am ALWAYS looking for 'coins of recent vintage' or 'pocket change for gas money'...if something else turns up, not my fault, I can't control that.

Re: can a detectorist ask for to much permission ?
Posted by: WaterHound
Date: March 13, 2017 12:05PM
Good advice as well doc and bootyhoundpa , hunting the less occupying time keeping a low profile and the right awnser when asked is a must for detectorist caring about the future of this hobby , at times I carry those broken glass bottle tops with the metal rings or caps still on them , their a swimmers foot cutter for sure, and I will show them to someone whos asking . last year I tried water hunting a big public beach during crowded times and it wasn't good , weaving in and around people with just my head and earphones showing looks a bit weird , and then the kids chasing after me asking Mr are you finding treasure drained me .I was glad to get out of their , this spring I will do new sites as soon as the ice moves away from shore ,and in peak swim time at the break of dawn .

Re: can a detectorist ask for to much permission ?
Posted by: doc holiday232
Date: March 13, 2017 03:55PM
IF you axe a question you are going to get an answer----may not be the one you want.

Re: can a detectorist ask for to much permission ?
Posted by: WaterHound
Date: March 13, 2017 06:41PM
I here ya doc.

Re: can a detectorist ask for to much permission ?
Posted by: Goldfleks
Date: March 14, 2017 11:46PM
I'd still go and detect. Sounds like it's OK to me, and I'd just forget I spoke with the super.

I feel like the stories of people getting in trouble are like the telephone game. I just do my thing. So far all I see is cops walking past or riding past on their bikes and park maintenance walking past or driving past in their carts. It's 2017, no one is getting paid enough to care about someone with a detector cutting a few plugs or scooping sand on the beach.

Re: can a detectorist ask for to much permission ?
Posted by: iqwozpoom
Date: March 15, 2017 04:14PM
I concur with gold flex on this one. Just the other day I was tiptoeing through a wet park as maintenance workers came and went, all around me I could see grass torn up by dogs left off their leashes. Just make as small of a footprint as you can at your area and be on your best behavior, no worries.

Re: can a detectorist ask for to much permission ?
Posted by: WaterHound
Date: March 16, 2017 09:54PM
Thanks for the responses , and good advice .

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Re: can a detectorist ask for to much permission ?
Posted by: Champ Ferguson
Date: March 17, 2017 05:47PM
Tom/CA must have quit coming to this site. This one is right in his sweet spot.



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Your post is oh-so-telling and typical ....
Posted by: Tom_in_CA
Date: March 31, 2017 10:40AM
Water-hound, as champferguson alluded to, this topic is a "bee in my bonnet" :)

For starters, I bet those Huron-Manistee rules you read, probably only-ever came about because yester-year md'rs bureaucracy dreamed up rules to "address this pressing issue" brought in by yester-year md'r's Q's. And the matter crosses the desk of an archie for review. And presto, the "50 yr." limit gets in there.

And seriously, is someone standing around out there, armed with a calculator, doing the math on the ages of each coin we find ? Doh! It's the psychology of : Sometimes no one cares ... UNTIL you ask.

And when you read of that particular rule, it subconsciously caused you to ask at other places now. This is the understandable reaction that a cautious person might have. They think "aha, some places dis-allow it. So I better be safe and ask at the next place I come to". Eh ? Only to find themselves the newest victim of the "safe" answer. When in fact, probably no one cared less, or would ever have given the matter a moment's thought.

I saw this evolution first-hand back in the late 1970s to mid 1980s. No internet back then, so word traveled slowly. And very few "rules" (specific ones that actually mention md'ing anyhow), since the hobby was still in it's infancy. Back then it never crossed any of our's minds that there might be a rule, or that you "had to ask". Oh sure, we had the presence of mind to avoid obvious historic sensitive monuments, but that was about it.

But then the FMDAC was born in the early 1980s. In addition to a few articles in the TH'ing magazines about some hassles at lone isolated spots 1000 miles away. And as a result of that, a curious phenomenon began to occur : Any one reading that (if they are of a skittish mindset) figured "aha! I should start asking wherever I come to. After all, I don't want to 'get in trouble' like the article I read in the magazine or newsletter". So they started showing up and city halls and county offices. And getting "no's" sometimes. Oddly these answer often came at places that, quite frankly, were never an issue before. So you had old-timers scratching their heads saying "since when ?". See how this vicious self-fulfilling circle works ? It's as if we can be our own worst enemy ! haha

I'm not faulting you water-hound. Just pointing out that all the psychological factors of what I've suspected, are seen in your post here. Like, sure: You can ALWAYS find a "no", depending on which person at city hall you ask, what their mood is, and how you phrase the question. So FAR from being cut and dried "finding out the rules", you have merely subjected yourself to Russian roulette. And worse yet, guess what will happen when that same person sees another md'r out there (who he previously never gave thought to): He'll remember the earlier inquiry and think: Aha! there's one of *them*. And start booting others. I've seen that happen.

So in the future, just go. Unless of course you found FOR YOURSELF a true and *specific* prohibition. And barring obvious sensitive monuments. If someone still gripes, then you're merely looking for the ring your sister in law lost their last week, right ? You are NEVER going to please every last person and get red-carpets rolled out for you. This hobby has connotations (in turf anyhow) that you "might be about to leave a hole". So sometimes, rather than trying to seek everyone's blessings first, it's better just to pick low traffic times and avoid such lookie-lous.

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Re: Your post is oh-so-telling and typical ....
Posted by: Champ Ferguson
Date: March 31, 2017 11:35AM
Good to see youre still here, Tom. The Universe just seemed unbalanced without you in this thread.



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Re: can a detectorist ask for to much permission ?
Posted by: doc holiday232
Date: April 01, 2017 10:50AM
Go Stealth and leave no trail.

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