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SD Question
Posted by: Boston
Date: November 04, 2012 02:12PM
I can afford an SD and that is my limit as far as money being spent. How many models were there and which model would be best...Thank You.

Re: SD Question
Posted by: argyle
Date: November 04, 2012 04:34PM
Hi Boston.

This is a quick rundown on the SD models and my thoughts on them. Depending on the type of ground and in which country you will use one, you may gauge a little bit of info out of it.

SD2000:

Some maintain they still hold sway as the deepest of the SD series, but I've always thought the 2200 with DD coil was. With the 2100 and mono coil, size per size, being a very close 2nd.

SD2100:

Far and away a better detector than the 2000. They are mono coil friendly too. There were some trouble with early models having paint that decomposed on the circuit boards, and a component problem, but even some of those were still good detectors.
The problems were sorted and the later serial numbers were bomb proof.
Very nice manual ground balance on all the 2100 models. Very easy to learn and master.

SD2100e:

Once the problems had been addressed, these were produced with cosmetic and slight component changes, with no issues. Good machines, but very underrated as the 2200d were made the same year.

SD2100v2:

The new blue box versions of both the 2100v2 and 2200v2 were the most perfectly even across the board, and the best SD's made.

SD2200d:

Great machines, with the only real problem being an extremly low audio, and had to be run with amplification. The first Auto ground balance and Auto ground tracking in the range. The d stands for discrimination, the first of its kind, but was bloody useless.
I feel the 2200d didn't like mono coils from the get go, and were DD lovers from the start, maybe due to the tracking speed or the electronics on the first tracking unit made.
Not the most sensitive on smaller targets in comparison with any of the 2100 models, especially when running mono coils (which suited the 2100 no end), but were a very deep machine, and very easy to master.
They had a major problem with mono coils, was a real danger to run them in tracking, as a few passes over deep slight signals would cause them to balance the signal away.
This does not happen with a DD coil on them though. And getting a nice balance and working the immediate area then flicking over to into fixed balance, made them the deepest units.

SD2200v2:

I feel, along with the 2100v2, these were the best SD's made.
The tracking speed on the 2200v2 felt better than on the 2200d to me. Smoother somehow. Maybe that was merely put down to better components, or the tracking speed may have been slightly faster, I'm just not sure.
The poor Version 2's only suffered one problem, the GPextreme was already out, so nobody took any notice of them. The GP's weren't any deeper, but the signal response on smaller gold was much better. But they had their share of problems too.
I'd much rather use a Version 2, either of them.

Hope any of that helped.

Re: SD Question
Posted by: Boston
Date: November 04, 2012 06:54PM
Quote
argyle
Hi Boston.

This is a quick rundown on the SD models and my thoughts on them. Depending on the type of ground and in which country you will use one, you may gauge a little bit of info out of it.

SD2000:

Some maintain they still hold sway as the deepest of the SD series, but I've always thought the 2200 with DD coil was. With the 2100 and mono coil, size per size, being a very close 2nd.

SD2100:

Far and away a better detector than the 2000. They are mono coil friendly too. There were some trouble with early models having paint that decomposed on the circuit boards, and a component problem, but even some of those were still good detectors.
The problems were sorted and the later serial numbers were bomb proof.
Very nice manual ground balance on all the 2100 models. Very easy to learn and master.

SD2100e:

Once the problems had been addressed, these were produced with cosmetic and slight component changes, with no issues. Good machines, but very underrated as the 2200d were made the same year.

SD2100v2:

The new blue box versions of both the 2100v2 and 2200v2 were the most perfectly even across the board, and the best SD's made.

SD2200d:

Great machines, with the only real problem being an extremly low audio, and had to be run with amplification. The first Auto ground balance and Auto ground tracking in the range. The d stands for discrimination, the first of its kind, but was bloody useless.
I feel the 2200d didn't like mono coils from the get go, and were DD lovers from the start, maybe due to the tracking speed or the electronics on the first tracking unit made.
Not the most sensitive on smaller targets in comparison with any of the 2100 models, especially when running mono coils (which suited the 2100 no end), but were a very deep machine, and very easy to master.
They had a major problem with mono coils, was a real danger to run them in tracking, as a few passes over deep slight signals would cause them to balance the signal away.
This does not happen with a DD coil on them though. And getting a nice balance and working the immediate area then flicking over to into fixed balance, made them the deepest units.

SD2200v2:

I feel, along with the 2100v2, these were the best SD's made.
The tracking speed on the 2200v2 felt better than on the 2200d to me. Smoother somehow. Maybe that was merely put down to better components, or the tracking speed may have been slightly faster, I'm just not sure.
The poor Version 2's only suffered one problem, the GPextreme was already out, so nobody took any notice of them. The GP's weren't any deeper, but the signal response on smaller gold was much better. But they had their share of problems too.
I'd much rather use a Version 2, either of them.

Hope any of that helped.
One Heck Of An Answer...Thank You.

avatar
Re: SD Question
Posted by: steve herschbach
Date: November 05, 2012 01:54AM
Best summary of the SDs I have ever seen... Thanks!

I had an SD2200v2 I held onto for a long time before I finally decided with my GPX I was just not going to be using it again. But I really liked that detector.

Steve Herschbach



Currently using :fisher: Fisher F75, Gold Bug 2, Gold Bug Pro; :garrett: Garrett ATX; :minelab: Minelab CTX 3030, GPX 5000, SDC 2300; :whites: White's DFX, GM3, GMT, TDI, Surf PI DF, V3i; plus Nokta Fors Gold and XP Deus

Re: SD Question
Posted by: argyle
Date: November 05, 2012 03:53AM
You're welcome Boston. I hope you end up with a nice unit, and if you do, good luck with it.


Hi Steve. Yeah, such a pity they have gone. But, that is progress I guess. We ended up with improved units across the entire range of Minelab's, just sad to see some of the favorite ones fall by the wayside. Goodbye Eureka soon, but hello new XTerra.

Life's got to go on.

Re: SD Question
Posted by: Jonathan Porter
Date: November 06, 2012 02:51PM
I have to disagree with the comments about the SD2200 not being any good with Mono coils, thats all I used with the SD2200 and we had some of our best years with them. Audio was a problem, with the horribly too loud start up noise which deafened you then the very quiet running audio, if people are using them now a booster speaker is one of the best add on improvements money can buy for the 2200.

The auto tracking was a real bonus with the 2200, but you had to be careful not to pass the coil over too many times especially on the very faint very deep targets found with the larger mono coils, however it saved huge amounts of time when there were variable faint ground noise responses scattered everywhere, if it tracked out in 3 passes move on. The other thing of note was you could not use then 2200's in channel one only like you could with the 2100 as the cross over target points of the two channels had been moved about compared to the 2100, this meant you needed both channels to get maximum depth, however thanks to the auto ground balance I found the 2200 ran a lot quieter than a 2100.

The thing that started the DD coil myth with the 2200's was the 7.3 voltage regulated 12V battery units put out by Coiltek, higher voltage meant much more ground noise for Mono coils which killed them in places like Victoria, forcing users to go to a DD to handle the variable ground.

Regards
Jonathan Porter

Re: SD Question
Posted by: argyle
Date: November 06, 2012 03:33PM
It was fact, no myth about it, and had naught to do Coiltek's new regulated system.
They simply wouldn't handle mono coils as well as the 2100 on hot ground.
That first auto tracking balance's processed revovery simply did not appreciate a larger, more sensitive mono coil vs the same size DD.

Have a look back at one your old dvd's. On the test bed comparing a GP3500 and 2200d. Both with the same mono coil, tracking the large planted nugget out.
An equivalent size DD on the 2200d would have given you a much better signal response on that one, less broader, and without danger of tracking it out, and an even nicer response when running fixed, provided it was balanced correctly to start with.
Considering the lead up ground on that test bed was fairly quiet, at least you were able to run the mono on the 2200 in that spot.

Re: SD Question
Posted by: Jonathan Porter
Date: November 06, 2012 05:18PM
Before I get into a heated discussion it would be nice know whom I'm having these discussions with?

With regards with the SD2200 I humbly disagree with you and considering it is my videos you are using as a reference point I should be able to rightly assume readers of this post could/would take my current comments on the matter in context with what I've produced in the past.

The auto Tracking on current machines is the same as used on all the PIs since the the 2200D except for the actual speed of the tracking which in the case of the GP extreme and GP 3000 was way too fast and was corrected in the GP 3500 onwards with the option of choosing one of three speeds of which the Medium speed was the same as the tracking speed on the 2200. From memory the actual pausing effect was fixed in stone on the 3500 onwards but you could adjust it with the level adjust on the previous models right back to the SD2200.

Lastly, monos run slightly more noisier on the GP series compared to the SD2200D thanks to the Dual Voltage of the GP series. Dual voltage gives a lot more sensitivity to smaller gold especially at depth but also generates a fair bit more ground noise, thats the price you pay for more performance.:detecting: Thankfully Minelab have since developed the Smooth class of timings to allow people to use Monoloop coils in highly mineralised environments without a huge trade off to sensitivity on the smaller targets.

Regards
Jonathan Porter

Re: SD Question
Posted by: Bobbylikesgold
Date: November 06, 2012 05:54PM
Great to see differing points of view , the reader being the ultimate winner :clapping:

Go for it boys , I'm getting excited for the next round :drinking:

Re: SD Question
Posted by: argyle
Date: November 07, 2012 02:54AM
Before you get into a heated discussion Jonathan?
Now why would you want to go and ruin a friendly chat about detectors.

Everyone picks up on the different responses the electronics give on the PI series. The right headphone amp combo vs a different amp speaker combo is just one of the many varying reasons we all have a feel for different units and the way they behave, along with the main ground types and varying ground types we detect in different places.

For instance, I always felt the 2200d had too slow a tracking speed and were hoping the following model would track a bit faster.
I was glad the first two GP's had that nice faster tracking speed. Then again, I wasn't running overlarge mono's that would give me too broad of a response at depth. I'd learnt my lesson well before then, that it can be a bad mix on deep signals, especially running a speaker at all, with a too high a tone setting for the threshold.

The 2200d's tracking speed was still a bit slower than the GP3500's medium setting though. The 2200v2's speed felt and responded a touch faster than the 2200d, but still came in under the 3500's medium setting. Close, but not quite there.

Funny how other users get to know their machines well isn't it.
We all gotta learn over time, that we aren't the only ones that swing, listen, dig, pop gold into our pockets, and love detectors.

Re: SD Question
Posted by: Jonathan Porter
Date: November 07, 2012 05:05AM
Um heated is not an argument, heated is passion about a subject you know well when having a discussion with some one else who seems as passionate as yourself, hence the request for information about the person I'm having a heated discussion with otherwise the playing field is unfairly stacked.

I'm all ears about what others are doing that helps them to be successful detector operators, the day I know it all is the same day I stopped learning.:surrender:

JP

Re: SD Question
Posted by: Reno Chris
Date: November 07, 2012 08:47PM
Quote

We all gotta learn over time, that we aren't the only ones that swing, listen, dig, pop gold into our pockets, and love detectors.

Wow, Seriously?
Sounds like you've got yourself a pretty large hat size, argyle. Think your experience would be true everywhere, like even here in the states where the goldfields tend to have milder mineralization?

Re: SD Question
Posted by: argyle
Date: November 08, 2012 12:27AM
What just got up your arse excactly Chris?

Re: SD Question
Posted by: Bobbylikesgold
Date: November 08, 2012 03:01AM
Quote
argyle
What just got up your arse excactly Chris?

Don't worry about it Argye , I appreciated what you wrote ' thanks for sharing your knowledge :thumbup:

Bobby himself wearing his big hat :wave:

Re: SD Question
Posted by: Reno Chris
Date: November 08, 2012 11:22PM
Basically the same thing that Steve said above, only he put it into more eloquent and polite terms.
While I am sure that your comments accurately reflect your own experiences, there are folks from all around the planet who read here.and not all of us prospect in Victoria or wherever else you've worked. Conditions can be very significantly different in other locations, and what has not worked for you may work fine for others and vise - versa.

When you make broad statements that the 2200 is no good with mono coils, and that "It was fact, no myth about it" - that may well be your experience, but I know other detector operators for whom it has not been their experience at all. The newbies here may not know enough to broadly discout your monolithic statements as reflecting only your own personal experiences.

Its a fact that "other users get to know their machines well" - and just because their experience is different that yours, it doesn't mean your experiece is right and theirs wrong. When you offer your thoughts and insist that you are right, you need to consider that others working under different conditions may have different experiences.

So it comes around that all considered, you yourself are someone who has "gotta learn over time, that we aren't the only ones that swing, listen, dig, pop gold into our pockets, and love detectors."

Just be careful when you toss out semi-insulting comments like that because while it may make you feel better about yourself, its not particularly helpful for the rest of us. Some of us actually know, like and respect JP.

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