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Signagraph Bars
Posted by: Kentuck11
Date: July 15, 2017 08:30PM
Can the signagraph on the DFX, showing good solid bars on the left or negative range, be a good target? I have dug several but they have always been trash, but I read that sometimes a deep target next to iron can cause the repeated bars to appear on the left side of the graph. Is this true? Are there pictures somewhere showing different signagraph readings for different depths and items, other than in the manual? I have found a few pictures online but they seem to be just ordinary coin and junk readings. Thanks for any help. Hopefully there are still some DFX users out there to help out.

Kentuck

Re: Signagraph Bars
Posted by: Kentuck11
Date: July 15, 2017 10:42PM
Oh, and targets up to 6 inches deep, and sometimes a little deeper, I can read the signagraph and tell pretty much each time what is in the ground before I dig, except when it is a large object or more than one item close together. Every once in a while I will get one solid bar on the negative or left, side of the signagraph, and was wondering if sometimes this could be a good target along with maybe junk iron. I used to dig similar signagraph readings but they were always junk. I guess I will just have to keep digging everything...

Kentuck

Re: Signagraph Bars
Posted by: Blind Squirrel
Date: July 16, 2017 11:12AM
Howdy Kentuck11--

I hope that you had some luck at Old Osage!

Yes. Sometimes good targets can have a signograph reading in the negative range. From my experience that occurs mostly on deep good targets that are in close proximity to larger trash targets. There is a solution to that situation though that can enable you to get the good one. An example comes to mind. I was detecting a lot that I call "Dr. Peppersville" because of the Billiken 1908 Dr. Pepper watch fob that I dug there. I had already hunted this lot regularly for about 10 years because it kept producing. Whenever I purchased a new coil or had a brainstorm for a new hunting strategy for that lot, I got after it. I had just purchased the new D2 10" coil and thought that would be a good place to try it out. First of all, I always use Tone ID and secondly, I use DC Phase. By utilizing these 2 features, I was able to get this fob as well as many other hard to get good finds. Where the Tone ID came into play was that I initially heard a low iron grunt indicating rusty trash but while I swung the coil back and forth I heard a short high pitch sound which alerted me to investigate more closely. When I went into the pinpoint mode, DC Phase came into play. While slowly moving the coil and watching the DC Phase readings, I was able to isolate the fob which gave a positive # from a rusty can that gave a negative #. You can still see the discoloration where the rusty can was in contact with the fob near the horses neck. Tone ID and DC Phase could be the answer to your question! Best of luck and...

Happy Hunting!
blind Squirrel




Re: Signagraph Bars
Posted by: Kentuck11
Date: July 16, 2017 12:19PM
Thanks, Blind Squirrel! That's pretty much what I figured. I just sometimes get one good full length solid bar on the negative side of the signagraph that goes to the top, just like I do with a shallow coin, but I have not been digging these since I have so much trash here and I already spend too much time digging. I have been using the DC Phase and like it, but the DC Phase sometimes goes up to the -70's but rarely into the positive numbers. I have checked a few but it is always trash.
I am planning on going to Old Osage this afternoon if it does not rain. On Google maps, I cannot find the park, just the cemetery, and the old cemetery, but nothing else. I will let you know what I find.
That's a very nice find there! I found a small piece of a chain that I believe was for a pocketwatch. It was giving me a broken signal like trash, but also a good tone kept coming through and there were a few short bars on the positive side of the signagraph, so I dug it.
Thanks for your help!
Kentuck

Re: Signagraph Bars
Posted by: Blind Squirrel
Date: July 16, 2017 01:30PM
Kentuck11--

The DC Phase works really great when you have, for example, a rusty bottle cap in close proximity to a silver dime. It's a big aid in accurate pinpointing. Using DC Phase , one will rarely damage a good target. It also helps to identify a bottle cap that gives a much lower DC Phase # than a quarter. Sometimes because of soil conditions even a good target will give a low DC Phase # - especially if close to trash. In that case, if it has a high VDI # and a good audio response I pinpoint and dig the higher DC Phase #. Sometimes it turns out to be a small piece of brass or copper (that I recycle) but often it IS a good target.

On Tone ID - I view TID as an Audio version of the Signagraph. It's the same information only in an audio format. It saves our most PRECIOUS commodity - TIME. Also, where I often hunt, there is the safety element - rather than constantly looking at the screen, I pay attention to the ground and can avoid encounters with little guys like this:

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?85,2286379,2287171#msg-2287171

Best of luck and...

Happy Hunting!
Blind Squirrel

Re: Signagraph Bars
Posted by: Kentuck11
Date: July 18, 2017 11:36AM
Blind Squirrel, yes, you have to be on the lookout here also for those critters. Copperheads are a dime a dozen here, not to mention the rattlers and countless other non venomous snakes, which is one of the reasons I don't hunt in the dark anymore. Fireants are another reason.
I didn't get a chance to go to Old Osage yet, problems came up this past weekend and I worked all day yesterday, so maybe this weekend I can make a trip there.
DC Phase here rarely shows a target into the + range. But then when I know I have a good target, I rarely check the DC Phase number, but on deep iffy's, the DC Phase will rise as little as 15 numbers, but usually up 40 or 50 numbers from ground readings and will go into the 50's or 40's but still in the negative range on deep targets.
I got another hit the other evening just before dark which made a good repeated sound, but the signagraph showed a single tall bar on the left negative side of the signagraph. I dug it anyway and it was a brass keyhole disk about the size of a quarter. Same happened with a bullet slug that also had some splattered bars on both sides, but tall bars on the left. DC Phase read into the -50's. It was also deep, just over 10 inches, so I guess the depth has a lot to do with these different then normal readings, and also nearby trash.
On targets up to around 6 inches deep, I have no problem identifying them, good or bad, but deeper targets give me different signals each time. Trash here in some areas is so thick that I have a hard time finding a place to ground balance the detector, and this trash has a lot to do with target ID also.
Sometimes I get a good solid repeating sound, but no signagraph and only sometimes giving a VDI reading with every few passes. I dig because of the good sound, but it is usually junk such as nails.
On both of my DFX's I can't seem to get accurate readings on my depth in DC mode. It will tell me 7 or 8 inches, and the object will actually be 3 or 4 inches. I was wondering if I have some setting set wrong that would cause this. I've changed to DC sensitivity numbers up and down and no change. I hold the disk as close to the ground as possible, and even on the ground where the grass is shorter, but the depth is still off. I have gotten used to it, and it is nothing that I have to have since I am after the target, no matter how deep it is.
Thanks for your help.

Re: Signagraph Bars
Posted by: Blind Squirrel
Date: July 19, 2017 04:01PM
Howdy Kentuck11--

Yes sir, those snakes can slow us down. I can deal with them. What I have a problem with are ants and mosquitoes! Both of which LOVE to dine on me and I have a painful reaction to them.

I've been thinking about your trouble with your DC Phase readings.My guess is that it is because of 2 factors: Depth and soil conditions. From my experience, I've had good audio responses (on deep targets) with DC Phase readings that go from negative 50 to negative 40. I pinpoint the closest to" 0" DC Phase reading and dig it. Of course it can be a crap-shoot on the deeper targets, so your knowledge of the site and what the likely target is will be the determining factor weather you dig or not. Just a suggestion though: when you encounter a target that you know what it is, still observe the DC Phase reading for future reference with a mental note as to the depth and soil conditions. Then on the deeper targets , you can make the mental adjustments.That in the long run can put a goodie or 2 in your pouch that you may have otherwise passed.

On your inaccurate depth readings, if you let me know what all of your settings are in your basic start up and go program, I may be able to spot the problem. Also, what coil(s) do you use at the trashy sites?

Oh, and good luck when you do hunt Old Osage! I hope that you dig something that makes your day! Best of luck and...

Happy Hunting!
Blind Squirrel

Re: Signagraph Bars
Posted by: Kentuck11
Date: July 20, 2017 10:55AM
Blind Squirrel,
Thanks for the reply. I do the same since I have been using DC Phase, I pinpoint the closest reading closest to "0". My ground generally reads in the mid to low 90's range and I have repeatedly checked DC reading of some good sounding targets and those that rise 20 or more points, I will dig. Many rise 10 points to around -80 but I don't dig these even though I think they could possibly be a deep good target. Anything rising 20 or more numbers but still far into the negative range is where I start to dig the targets.
I am searching some really trashy areas. I usually get a sound with every swing of the coil, and sometimes 2 or 3 per swing, so discriminating becomes a problem here for the detector, and for me.
I run the AC sens at 70 -75, depending on the area and the noise that day, DC sens at 40. PAG 3 or 4, gain, depending.
Ratchet Pinpointing off
Tone ID off most of the time, but sometimes on.
VCO on.
Modulation off.
Accept -10 to +94, and sometimes down to -20.
Recovery at 25.
BCR at 4.
HHR at 10,
Sweep speed 5.
Ground Filters at 3 most of the time, but sometimes 4.
VDI sens at 90.
DC Phase on.
Best Data or Correlate depending on interference that day.
I mostly use the 9.5 stock coil but will occasionally use the 5.3.
I don't get the depth with the 10X5 Detech coil. I have been wanting a 6X10 DD but never got one yet.
I get a lot of good sounds, even with Tone ID on, but many of these are large iron objects. I can almost always tell when an object is a non-ferrous item, but it's the decision to dig that is a problem because there could be, and I'm sure there are, good items next to bad targets that are getting discriminated out by the bad targets. I get tired of digging iffy's only to find more junk. I literally have buckets of iron junk from the 1800's such as horse shoes, hoes, files, and other large scarp iron. In the 'hotspot' areas where I also found some coins, I could dig after each swing of the coil, but my back gives out after a while even just digging the better sounding targets much less digging them all.
Thanks for your help, and anyone else that has any suggestions.

Kentuck

Re: Signagraph Bars
Posted by: Blind Squirrel
Date: July 21, 2017 12:54AM
Howdy Kentuck11--

Ideally we want positive DC Phase #'s - the closer to the actual VDI reading, the better.

Kentuck11, your basic settings are very close to mine. I, too, mainly detect trashy sites - old home sites, vacant urban lots and abandoned homes in older parts of town. Since we both hunt trashy sites, may I make a few suggestions for your consideration, based on my experience? You mentioned that your sites are so trashy that you get 3 or 4 signals per sweep. That's not unusual using the 9.5 coil at such a site. To quiet the DFX down, try your 5.3 coil (better separation and a smaller footprint). An important adjustment in trash is Recovery Speed. I would speed it up to about 33-35. A recovery speed of 20-25 is great for clean low trash sites. I have also found that a LOWER AC Sensitivity and VDI Sensitivity work best. I usually use AC Sensitivity in the 66-68 range and VDI Sensitivity at 82 (you will get fewer trash audio & display responses and loose the 3rd VDI digit). Correlate works really well in trash also. Correlate has a bias against iron which always quiets down the detector. One other setting adjustment you may consider: Hot Rock Reject. I have seen various opinions on this one but ask yourself, "What IS a hot rock?" My answer is that it is a rock that has properties that causes my DFX to beep - similar to large iron junk. With that in mind I set my HRR at 20. I also accept targets from negative 35 to positive 93 with Tone ID on. Accepting more VDI's gives more depth and with the TID turned on I listen for the higher pitched signals. The 6x10 DD coil, I have to admit is my favorite coil for these sites but I always have the 4x6 and the 9.5 with me. Sometimes using a smaller coil gives more effective depth than the 9.5 - avoid the masking of good targets. Using a smaller coil with slow physical sweep speed can get the goods!

I know that every site is unique, but the above basic settings have worked for me in Texas, New Mexico, Old Mexico, Louisiana, New York and Florida. Hopefully an adjustment or 2 will help you to put more of the good stuff in your pouch! Best of luck and...

Happy Hunting!
Blind Squirrel

Re: Signagraph Bars
Posted by: Kentuck11
Date: July 21, 2017 11:06AM
Thanks, Blind Squirrel!
I have used the 5.3 coil and a faster recovery speed before, but I did not see much difference but I will try each of these again. I just never got the depth out of the 5.3 as I do with the 9.5, but with better adjustments, maybe I can compensate for this. I don't have a problem with hot rocks but I will also try setting HRR at 20 and see what that does for the larger iron junk. In the past, I have accepted down to -30 and sometimes to even -40 but I have been accepting +94, so I will start rejecting +94 and see what happens.
I went to Old Osage yesterday evening to check out the site. There is an open park area about 1 1/2 acres in size, across the road from the present day cemetery. All that is there is a couple of concrete picnic tables. The old pavilion that I saw several years ago is now gone. A Local, passing by, told me that most of the town along with the 'old' cemetery, was on private property on the other side of the newer cemetery, and inaccessible to the public. However, the park area should yield me some good finds, although not as old, but the yearly gathering should have left something there over the years. He said no one has ever detected the park area that he knew of, and it should be interesting to see what is there. I will go back when the grass gets cut which should be soon.
I will keep you posted and thanks for all of your help!

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