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FSB Search Frequencies
Posted by: SC Dirt Fisher
Date: August 31, 2014 12:53PM
Another detector manufacturer is saying that the ML claim of FSB technology that transmits, receives and and analyzes 28 different frequencies simultaneously is absolutely false. I have no way to determine if the Safari does or doesn't work like that even though I purchased it specifically for that reason.
Does anyone know for sure?

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Re: FSB Search Frequencies
Posted by: Goldstrike
Date: August 31, 2014 01:58PM
That is a bold claim and you surely will be challenged on this by diehard Minelab users. Unless you are more specific on the claim i.e. who it came from/company and if him/her were a reliable source, this will claim couldn't 'hold no water' Could you share on the Forum where they said that?
Obviously, the competition out there might say something negative regarding this technology, but if it was proven that it works, which I feel it does, it would look bad for the company that claimed otherwise.
P.s. It's FBS (full band spectrum) not FSB.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2014 02:00PM by Goldstrike.

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Re: FSB Search Frequencies
Posted by: Southwind
Date: August 31, 2014 03:06PM
There is no doubt whatever Minelab does with the FBS works. That said, I would say they could surely claim it transmits 28 frequencies, if you count resonant frequencies, but I'd have to question the claim to receive and analyze 28 frequencies simultaneously.



The real treasure is in the hunt...

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Re: FSB Search Frequencies
Posted by: KinTN
Date: August 31, 2014 03:54PM
Let me start by saying that I do not know the answer to this question. What I have read is that:

the FBS machines do indeed use 28 frequencies, tho not more than 3 at a time. When you noise cancel, the machine selects the 3 best freqs for the environment that you are hunting in and uses those 3 until you NC again. So the FBS Minelabs do use 28 freqs, tho not all at once.

If this is incorrect, I look forward to learning the correct answer.



Minelab CTX 3030
Minelab Excalibur II
Minelab Safari



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2014 03:54PM by KinTN.

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Re: FSB Search Frequencies
Posted by: Southwind
Date: August 31, 2014 04:51PM
Sounds right Kin, I also believe the 3 frequencies it chooses are not processed simultaneously, but using a timed frequency. Sort of like how a scanner can scan 100 difference channels very quickly, the FBS scans those 3 frequencies very quick and processes the data separately from each frequency. I also think that the 3 frequencies it chooses always contains a lower set. Although they advertise a frequency range from 1 kHz to 100 kHz, the lack of sensitivity to low conductors like gold would tend to indicate no high frequencies. If the FBS used 100 kHz small gold should sing on them but it doesn't. That and being a killer on silver would suggest a lower frequency set.



The real treasure is in the hunt...

Re: FSB Search Frequencies
Posted by: SC Dirt Fisher
Date: August 31, 2014 05:29PM
From what you guys are saying, methinks the statement about how FBS works as stated in the ML site is a bit misleading.
If I am reading correctly, it definitely says " simultaneously transmits and analyzes a full band of multiple frequencies"
Is there more than one way to interpret that, especially with the diagram directly underneath, showing 28 signals being transmitted in the soil?

http://www.minelab.com/consumer/knowledge-base/minelab-technologies

Sure, I guess all that matters is that the the detector works, but I just despise eluding to something that's not totally true!

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Re: FSB Search Frequencies
Posted by: KinTN
Date: August 31, 2014 07:10PM
SCDF, I love that my machine works, but am also the type of person that wants to know HOW it works. Or at least to the extent of my ability to understand it.

My fondest MD wish is that Minelab would release a FBS machine with the option of manually selecting 1 to 3 frequencies inside that 1.5-100kHz range. THEN I could make my machine a killer on gold too. But that would probably cut into the higher end Minelab gold machines so I'm not holding my breath. Should be easy to do tho on something like the CTX or ETrac; I'm thinking a software routine would do it.



Minelab CTX 3030
Minelab Excalibur II
Minelab Safari

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Re: FSB Search Frequencies
Posted by: Goldstrike
Date: August 31, 2014 07:36PM
SC Dirt Fisher, I was just heading out the door when I quickly penned the reply to your original question.
I had to get my copy out of Andy Sabich's 'The Minelab Quatrro and Safari Handbook' to see how he described it. On page 8 it explains how it selects "optimal frequencies from the 28 frequencies"....but I must admit, I'm also having a bit of a hard time getting my head around how it "selects the optimal frequencies" etc; etc;. From what I'm reading and I could be wrong, it sends out 28 frequencies initially and then selects the best or optimal 'set' of frequencies from among those 28 frequencies, for the ground your detecting at the time?

Re: FSB Search Frequencies
Posted by: SC Dirt Fisher
Date: September 01, 2014 08:18AM
Quote
SC Dirt Fisher
Another detector manufacturer is saying that the ML claim of FSB technology that transmits, receives and and analyzes 28 different frequencies simultaneously is absolutely false. I have no way to determine if the Safari does or doesn't work like that even though I purchased it specifically for that reason.
Does anyone know for sure?

Thanks for the info guys. Considering your responses I think I should qualify my original post above. The "other manufacturer" not named was Whites. Although they did not outright say that ML claim was false, they do say on pg. 2 of the V3i Owners Manual that no hobby detector on the market ( including theirs) PROCESSES more than 3 frequencies. They also state that (currently) multifrequency detectors TRANSMIT many harmonic frequencies as a side effect of the desired frequency BUT, these frequencies are not USED or PROCESSED.
After that I guess it's all a matter of interpretation of the words USE, PROCESS & ANALYZE.
ML states that FBS simultaneously ANALYZES 28 different frequencies. I guess it's "splitting hairs" trying to determine if ANALYZE means the same as PROCESS or USE.
Like KinTn says, it's important to know to just to know how your machine works.

Re: FSB Search Frequencies
Posted by: Scenario84
Date: September 03, 2014 05:11PM
Doesn't matter if it does all or some if it finds you the goods! And if it beats out other detectors (which it does!) then they can argue whatever they want

Re: FSB Search Frequencies
Posted by: iDetectorX
Date: May 15, 2017 11:08AM
It does turn out to be a bit misleading, and Whites was kind of pulling their pants down without mentioning them by name. It does matter greatly how many frequencies are being processed on return. Those are the only frequencies that matter actually. You can send as many as you like, but if you can't process them on return they are useless. What separates Whites is they use 3 separate filters, any of which can be used by themselves or in combination. This is important if you want to optimize depth and performance. You can't do it on a ML. This is why no full time multifrequency machine is as deep as a peak single frequency machine in mild to moderate soil. The V3i in single frequency mode or a machine like the F75 LTD will rock the Minelabs coils being equal. It is wishful thinking and an abysmal understanding of physics to state otherwise.

Re: FSB Search Frequencies
Posted by: TomNH
Date: May 23, 2017 09:12AM
Best bet is to look up the patent(s) that apply. I read them once but you really need an EE
they are very technical. I only have enough electronics to fix TV's etc for a living.

This is what seems to be happening:
You press the noise cancel & the machine goes through the 28 freqs looking for the quietest ( EMI )
and probably best ground conditions. When done the detector selects the best 3 out of 28 freqs
to operate on. I would guess it chooses the widest set of quiet freqs also.
Now you have a detector that goes through triple the freqs, processes them & displays the
results. That is probably why FBS is slower. ( That is why I just use all metal now )
To speed thing up all you can do is use a faster micro. That would raise cost & lower battery life.
Its a compromise ...........

CUL
Tom
LFOD !

Re: FSB Search Frequencies
Posted by: Prep1957
Date: June 17, 2017 08:34AM
It was a real disappointment for me when I found this out 5 years ago you can look at my past posts.It sets the Safari up with 28 but only hunts with 2 or 3 depending on what set of 11 sets it selects.I would like to thank Andy years ago for explaining that years ago in his very good book.I still do not think there is a better detector out there than the Safari,and that includes the Etrac which is equal not better.I have owned two Etracs the reason I got rid of them was because I was playing with all the Bells and Whistles instead of hunting.I bought AT gold for water hunting because I did not want to ruin my Safari although I have water hunted with Safari a lot and done very well.

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