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Will there be an update to the Surfmaster Dual Field PI?
Posted by: BenjaminE
Date: July 12, 2017 08:01PM
I am trying my question again, in a different form. I have yet to get a comment from people inside Whites. I love the Surfmaster Dual Field P.I. I have found hundreds of rings, in under two years. Obviously, that includes all sorts of rings - not just gold. I would like a detector that operates like the Surfmaster Dual Field PI, but that gets two to four inches more depth.

I find old heavy gold rings, with honemoon dates from the 90's, at significant depths, with extremely faint signals. But, I believe that past 16 inches I cannot get a signal on a ring (only a heavy ring), though I can get signals on larger, denser objects like heavy lead fishing weights, and very old lead cloth bale seals.

I have never gotten an answer from the Whites people regarding a newer more powerful version of the Surfmaster. I already run the power at full gain, all the time. Power is 100% maxed out. The sensitivity knob is barely on. I use a faint threshold, and sometimes pick up deep rings on a very faint signal, that increases as I dig. Still, I need up to four more inches to do really well.

Should I hold my breath for Whites? Or, should I go to another PI unit? Also, I do not care about discrimination. I study everything I dig to form an idea regarding the underground areas, beneath the surface. I want to dig lead fishing weights. I want to know exactly what depth the lead stops sinking, in any given area. I also want to dig heavy old coins, even if they have no monetary value. This helps me to see underground. So, I do not want discrimination. I only want a few inches more depth.

Any suggestions?

Ben

P.S. I am attaching a photo of my latest round of gold and platinum (and 1 palladium) rings. The second photo of three rings were all found in a pile - engagement ring, wedding ring, and anniversary ring. Always check your holes, unless you want to leave something behind!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2017 08:06PM by BenjaminE.




Re: Will there be an update to the Surfmaster Dual Field PI?
Posted by: Dave J.
Date: July 13, 2017 03:20AM
Tacking several more inches of depth onto an existing platform is something that to my knowledge has never happened in the metal detector industry.

Re: Will there be an update to the Surfmaster Dual Field PI?
Posted by: BenjaminE
Date: July 13, 2017 07:42AM
Okay, so what are my options? I want something that functions like a Dual Field PI. I do not want discrimination. I am not afraid to dig. What would be an improvement over the Dual Field, in terms of depth? An Aquastar?

Re: Will there be an update to the Surfmaster Dual Field PI?
Posted by: Dave J.
Date: July 13, 2017 01:20PM
Quote
BenjaminE
Okay, so what are my options? I want something that functions like a Dual Field PI. I do not want discrimination. I am not afraid to dig. What would be an improvement over the Dual Field, in terms of depth? An Aquastar?
I suspect that what you want doesn't exist. It you start over with a thread with a title something like "what is the deepest PI for beach work?", if such a thing does exist you'll probably get a reply.

Re: Will there be an update to the Surfmaster Dual Field PI?
Posted by: stephenscool
Date: July 18, 2017 10:45AM
Some insight into the conditions you hunt might help. Wetsand? Chest deep? I have a few pi detectors and hunt using pi exclusively. My df hasn't seen light in well over a year

Re: Will there be an update to the Surfmaster Dual Field PI?
Posted by: BenjaminE
Date: July 22, 2017 09:33AM
Hello Stephenscool,

Thanks for the response.

I hunt in water up to my head, and a little over. Also, the sand is composed from coral. There is nothing magnetic in it, that I am aware of. I generally dig through sand, gravel, and coral rocks. I can run the DF full gain no problem.

What unit would you recommend that goes deeper than the PI at full gain, and almost maximum sensitivity? I can probably get a "honker" gold ring at around 15-16 inches, but not 20 inches. The thinner bands come in maybe 8-12 inches tops.

So, far, my impression is that maybe only a legendary fellow named "Eric Foster" knows the secrets to all of this. I can hardly get a response from the Whites people, about an improved Surfmaster, with greater depth. I cannot understand what all of the silence is about, from the Whites people...

Any input, tips, pointers, etc would be appreciated.

Thanks

Re: Will there be an update to the Surfmaster Dual Field PI?
Posted by: Tony
Date: July 26, 2017 03:10AM
Hello Benjamin,

You remind me of me from when I started out many years ago....I was constantly searching for the ultimate deep seeking detector, which at the time, was the Aquastar. Unfortunately, money was tight back in those days and I was never able to purchase the Aquastar. What you have discovered is that there is a "hard barrier" when it comes to detecting in salt water. Your estimates mirror mine in that the 16" mark is very hard to better with today's detector's. The Aquastar could punch down to about the 18" mark on a typical 18K mens wedding band. I believe that detecting deeper than the 16" mark is currently unattainable. In the end, I decided to time my hunts when mother nature had done some excavating for me so essentially those 20" deep targets became 10" deep targets once the sands have shifted. Hopefully there is a manufacturer who can develop something soon that will keep us depth junkies happy. I will certainly buy such a detector !
Tony.

Re: Will there be an update to the Surfmaster Dual Field PI?
Posted by: BenjaminE
Date: July 26, 2017 02:08PM
Aha! So, there is roughly a sixteen inch barrier...

I confess my total ignorance on the technology end. I also use erosional patterns to help focus my searches, along with other types of probabilities.

A couple years ago, I ran across a video of an old fellow in Florida who had a PI unit. I believe he said that it only works well in Florida, due to some type of sand they have there, and the lack of mineralization. If I remember correctly, he said he could get a silver dime at around 20 inches. It was some sort of custom unit. I am seriously wondering whether he was using an Aquastar??? I need to try to find the video.

There is a second issue aside from maximum depth. The thinner rings are not being found so deep! So, I am looking for an improvement on depth, to be better able to reach all sorts of rings that are currently not reachable with the Surfmaster. They are down there. It is just not powerful enough to detect them. For example, at eight to ten inches, a thin 2-3 gram band produces a weak signal, if detectable. But, what about all of the bands that are thinner, and just out of reach??? They are being missed.

Also, I can dig by hand to past my elbow. And, my elbow is 19 inches. On one occasion, I dug by hand in mucky sand for a half an hour, until the hole was elbow deep. Eventually, while feeling around in the bottom of the hole, I felt a metal hoop, and pulled out a bracelet. It was not gold - maybe steel or something. Ideally, I would like to reach a "honker" ring at that same depth, and the thinner rings at deeper depths. If I could reach the thin 2-3 gram bands at 14-16 inches, I would probably find alot more gold...

As far as I can tell, the newer TDI runs deeper. But, it is not waterproof!! I have asked Whites people numerous times about a better submersible unit coming out, that runs deeper than the Surfmaster. So far, they have been very quiet. But, I believe one person said that the original TDI Pro runs deeper due to greater battery power. Could this be correct? Would there be a way to create this effect in a Surfmaster Dual Field PI?

Re: Will there be an update to the Surfmaster Dual Field PI?
Posted by: doc holiday232
Date: July 26, 2017 04:37PM
Forget about hearing from whites about anything related to the TDI PRO or ANY improvements on their existing PI detectors--They are too busy trying to debug the mxsport--- Plus the whites social media guy told me that"TDI PRO was Old technology" So I axe where is the NEW technology????

Re: Will there be an update to the Surfmaster Dual Field PI?
Posted by: Tony
Date: July 26, 2017 07:19PM
Quote
BenjaminE
Aha! So, there is roughly a sixteen inch barrier...

I confess my total ignorance on the technology end. I also use erosional patterns to help focus my searches, along with other types of probabilities.

A couple years ago, I ran across a video of an old fellow in Florida who had a PI unit. I believe he said that it only works well in Florida, due to some type of sand they have there, and the lack of mineralization. If I remember correctly, he said he could get a silver dime at around 20 inches. It was some sort of custom unit. I am seriously wondering whether he was using an Aquastar??? I need to try to find the video.

There is a second issue aside from maximum depth. The thinner rings are not being found so deep! So, I am looking for an improvement on depth, to be better able to reach all sorts of rings that are currently not reachable with the Surfmaster. They are down there. It is just not powerful enough to detect them. For example, at eight to ten inches, a thin 2-3 gram band produces a weak signal, if detectable. But, what about all of the bands that are thinner, and just out of reach??? They are being missed.

Also, I can dig by hand to past my elbow. And, my elbow is 19 inches. On one occasion, I dug by hand in mucky sand for a half an hour, until the hole was elbow deep. Eventually, while feeling around in the bottom of the hole, I felt a metal hoop, and pulled out a bracelet. It was not gold - maybe steel or something. Ideally, I would like to reach a "honker" ring at that same depth, and the thinner rings at deeper depths. If I could reach the thin 2-3 gram bands at 14-16 inches, I would probably find alot more gold...


As far as I can tell, the newer TDI runs deeper. But, it is not waterproof!! I have asked Whites people numerous times about a better submersible unit coming out, that runs deeper than the Surfmaster. So far, they have been very quiet. But, I believe one person said that the original TDI Pro runs deeper due to greater battery power. Could this be correct? Would there be a way to create this effect in a Surfmaster Dual Field PI?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2017 07:20PM by Tony.

Re: Will there be an update to the Surfmaster Dual Field PI?
Posted by: Tony
Date: July 26, 2017 07:20PM
I use the 15"-16" barrier for items such as a US Nickel or an "average" 18K gold ring (plain band with reasonable thickness and diameter). The thinner rings just can't be found be deeper and quite often need a pulse delay of around the 10uS mark......but this setting will pick up too much salt water signal even on saturated wet sand, let alone deeper water. The other detector you mentioned was the Aquasound (a TR machine). I had one a few years ago but sold it because unless the sands are pure white, performance drops off hugely. It was a good machine but not quite suited to my beaches down here in parts of Australia. In order to preserve your sanity, you will probably have to accept the current depth limits on today's detectors. A lot of the videos posted regarding depth need to be viewed with "eyes wide open".....how many times do you see/hear a "target" when the adjacent sand is making plenty of noise....this is due to maximum gain/sensitivity and mineralised sand. I only respect test videos if the operator sweeps the ground around the buried target without falsing and then gets a signal over the test target. At this stage, you will have to let Mother Nature do the hard work for you. There is a rumour that Fisher have hired a guy who was involved in the Manta line of detectors but I am not expecting depth miracles due to simple physics and electronics having the final word.
Regards
Tony

Re: Will there be an update to the Surfmaster Dual Field PI?
Posted by: stephenscool
Date: July 30, 2017 06:48AM
The atx does have considerable depth. The weight and the shaft will likely be an issue.
Have you tried looking for where there is "less" sand? At a certain depth you will be losing targets just because they are too deep.

Re: Will there be an update to the Surfmaster Dual Field PI?
Posted by: cjc
Date: August 02, 2017 09:57AM
Not sure what you are going to get that's much deeper than the DF. I spent a year waterproofing a TDI pro to accomplish exactly that. Some detectors are better in the black sand owing to the DF's coil size. My modded Cuda (SMPI coil) is deeper than a DF on the sidewall where there is a lot of interference. Otherwise--may be the ATX--some also like the Sea Hunter large coil.
cjc
clivesgoldpage.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2017 10:03AM by cjc.




Re: Will there be an update to the Surfmaster Dual Field PI?
Posted by: RC
Date: September 02, 2017 12:27PM
I recently sold my Anchor electronic barracuda It came with a 8 inch coil. The coil died and I put a 13 inch coil on. 20-24 inches hard packed sand in water for gold rings. The barracuda is no longer made which is very unfortunate. Paid abiout 1700 US 15 years ago. I wish Jim Pugh were still making them as I would buy another in a heart beat.. Anchors I would pick up at three to four feet, but coins down to 16 14kt gold to 20-24 inches. Ids there a Pulse machone today that would provide similar results if so what is it.

Re: Will there be an update to the Surfmaster Dual Field PI?
Posted by: 6666
Date: September 02, 2017 07:44PM
Quote
RC
I recently sold my Anchor electronic barracuda It came with a 8 inch coil. The coil died and I put a 13 inch coil on. 20-24 inches hard packed sand in water for gold rings. The barracuda is no longer made which is very unfortunate. Paid abiout 1700 US 15 years ago. I wish Jim Pugh were still making them as I would buy another in a heart beat.. Anchors I would pick up at three to four feet, but coins down to 16 14kt gold to 20-24 inches. Ids there a Pulse machone today that would provide similar results if so what is it.

Just for interest what brand coil did you put on ?

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