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Monotone?
Posted by: JJames1610
Date: June 02, 2017 07:51PM
I read on Dankowski's forum about the f75 being in monotone to unmask good targets amongst trash. I cannot find monotone on my f75 se. Is it dp tones? Is that what he means? He was on disc 6, monotone and pf. With 99 sens.
Someone help me out and explain what monotone is. Thanks

Re: Monotone?
Posted by: NCtoad
Date: June 02, 2017 08:14PM
On my F70 monotone is either 1 or 1F. DP is delta pitch with assigns a tone to each VID #.

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Re: Monotone?
Posted by: REVIER
Date: June 02, 2017 09:30PM
The first of the tone choices, to unmask the best in iron use 1...not 1F, 2F or anything else, just 1.
I also use disc down to 1or 0.



"What if doing the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?”
F70, F2, Compadre, Mojave, Judge2 - 2017....Clad, 15 silver targets including a freaking Barber quarter, a beautiful walker and 4 V nickels...
Plus other cool stuff.

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Re: Monotone?
Posted by: WV62
Date: June 02, 2017 09:34PM
Same on the F75, monotone is any single tone.

dp= delta pitch, what that does take the steps out of tones, for example a time will pretty high tone a quarter will be a little higher, and a half will be even higher. Now if you were running 3 tones over those same coins they would all give you the same high tone.

pf= plowed fields, which is one of your disc processors and is said that it is for running over uneven ground.

Ron in WV



Worked and lived in the Huntington West Virginia area all my life, retired 2010
US Air Force Vietnam Veteran (68-69 & 70-71)
Started getting into metal detecting around 1975

Re: Monotone?
Posted by: JJames1610
Date: June 03, 2017 11:59AM
Ok, thanks. I just know monotone is not in the manuel. So with disc at 6 and on monotone, anything you hear could be non-ferous?

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Re: Monotone?
Posted by: REVIER
Date: June 03, 2017 12:08PM
Quote
JJames1610
Ok, thanks. I just know monotone is not in the manuel. So with disc at 6 and on monotone, anything you hear could be non-ferous?

No, but disc 6 knocks out the smaller nails that seem to litter some heavy iron sites.
The deal is some high conductor non ferrous targets might actually wrap around and come in low at iron, plus you want some iron left in to be able to to tell if you are actually swinging over iron.
With low disc if you use any tone choice except 1 these things can automatically lift the iron disc number up to 15.

Dankowski explains it all.



"What if doing the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?”
F70, F2, Compadre, Mojave, Judge2 - 2017....Clad, 15 silver targets including a freaking Barber quarter, a beautiful walker and 4 V nickels...
Plus other cool stuff.

Re: Monotone?
Posted by: JJames1610
Date: June 04, 2017 12:12AM
On the f75 se, is 1, 1F, 1n considered a single tone, or monotone? Or just the 1 only.
Which brings me to my next question, if you are in a single tone only. How do you tell a good target from iron? In a single tone, all tones are supposed to sound the same, right. Or are you also looking at the vdi?

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Re: Monotone?
Posted by: REVIER
Date: June 04, 2017 05:38AM
Quote
JJames1610
On the f75 se, is 1, 1F, 1n considered a single tone, or monotone? Or just the 1 only.
Which brings me to my next question, if you are in a single tone only. How do you tell a good target from iron? In a single tone, all tones are supposed to sound the same, right. Or are you also looking at the vdi?

Yes, under most circumstances the VDI is important when using monotone although most times the sound of that tone still counts.
False tones do not sound exactly the same as real tones even in monotone when scanning targets but you need some experience hours in order to tell the difference.

OK, I had this wrong, here is Dankowski's findings in his words...

"Say; you have a silver dime and a non-oxidized nail in very close proximity (nearly touching) at a handful of inches deep. The two targets are close enough to each other.... and laying in such a fashion so as to give you a VDI ID of...say; '13' (a higher ID than what most nails will ID….. but still within the ‘iron’ ID range). Let's say your F-75 Discrimination is on a setting of '6'.

1. If you are in '1' tone (monotone).... the F-75 will give you a good audio response to the target….. regardless of what the VDI is indicating. Since you are in 1-tone (monotone) there is no “tone-ID” per-se. (((You will most probably recover the target))).

2. Now….. say the F-75 is in 2-tone (or 3, 3H, 4, 4H tone options etc.....). And NOW......... the F-75 will respond with a ‘tone’ audio response that most detectorists will NOT dig/recover. The F-75 will report a 'iron' tone (the lowest sounding audio tone). The non-ferrous silver target will most likely NOT be recovered....... even though most all nails will discriminate out at a Disc setting of '6'.

THIS IS BECAUSE; When 2-tone (or 3, 3H, 4, 4H etc.....) is selected = ANY target that results in a VDI ID reading of '15' or below....will report as a 'iron' LOW-tone. Most folks will NOT recover iron tones……. Especially in nail infested areas.

Conclusively:
In situations like this..... COMPLETELY ignore the VDI. Rotate your body around the target until you have the best/most clear audio report. ((( This is usually best performed in monotone ))). NOW...... and only NOW,,,,, you may look at the VDI,,,, but for a distant secondary data input. You should already know (at this point) that you will/will not recover this target."


Many use this monotone method with great success.
He does not talk about anything else here but 1 tone even though 1F was available at the time...1N was not even a thing back then.

I have found that listening to and using monotone vs. anything else like 1F or 2F with that modulation or any of the upper tone choices all the way up to DP, is a much better and much less mentally fatiguing way to do it...for me.
The sites I hunt are usually filled with signals to the extreme both bad and good, a veritable wall of jumping numbers and sound, especially in all metal or my disc set at 1 or 0, and I have learned to use monotone to make sense of it all with a lot of practice
and my primary tone choice when hunting in disc.

All that being said even though I use a form of of this low disc monotone method I don't really use the tone as my primary indicator at all and figured out a different way that has proven to work for me for me in many different sites and situations.
Especially when hunting in heavy iron the VDI for me is everything...what I see in the screen, blocks or ranges of repeatable higher numbers and how they behave, how many iron numbers show up and their frequency all are taken into account.
Even though I have learned to do this using that low disc and monotone I am even better at it using all metal and extremely pumped up gain and threshold settings...I came to call this my "Blast Through" method.
I suppose you can call all metal a form of monotone hunting but with added modulation.

Tom read my report about using this method on his forum and saw what I was able to do and find and said learning to do it this way so efficiently puts me in the top 2% of hunters in his opinion.
Heavy praise for sure but I don't know about that, just a different way I discovered that works well for me through some experimentation and close observation which I believe anyone can learn to do using the F75/F70/T2/Patriot platform detectors.

That is the great thing about these tools, many different ways to set them up and use them and all successful.



"What if doing the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?”
F70, F2, Compadre, Mojave, Judge2 - 2017....Clad, 15 silver targets including a freaking Barber quarter, a beautiful walker and 4 V nickels...
Plus other cool stuff.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2017 05:45AM by REVIER.

Re: Monotone?
Posted by: David53
Date: June 04, 2017 11:41AM
How do you pump up the gain in all metal mode on the F75. Also what is the best method you
have found for pinpointing your targets? I just started using the 1F tone, if all metal is
better, I would like to try it out. Any help would be greatly
appreciated.

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Re: Monotone?
Posted by: REVIER
Date: June 04, 2017 05:14PM
Quote
David53
How do you pump up the gain in all metal mode on the F75. Also what is the best method you
have found for pinpointing your targets? I just started using the 1F tone, if all metal is
better, I would like to try it out. Any help would be greatly
appreciated.

I believe you can control the gain, (sensitivity), in all modes, tone choices and in both all metal settings you have.
The threshold, on the other hand, can only be changed and controlled in one of your all metal settings and not the other or in disc.
It is preset in those two other modes...I believe.

All metal for many might be the deepest but I have gotten scary deep in disc on my F70 too.

I regularly hunt in all metal, sense turned up to 99, threshold up to +9 and more often than not boost.
Surprisingly stable considering the wide open set up, even more so than using disc and and way lower settings a lot of the time.
Don't ask me why...it just is.
This just works well in my mineralized soil that is also saturated with extra iron.
This platform has better resolution around iron with higher gain settings not lower like some other detectors and brands.
As always even if it chatters, jumps or acts nuts it still stops and tells me when it is swinging over targets.

Usually I use the wiggle pull back method on most targets that aren't super deep up to 3-4", any further I use the pinpoint button and hit it from two directions to home in accurately.
Hate to dig deep holes here and miss the target.



"What if doing the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?”
F70, F2, Compadre, Mojave, Judge2 - 2017....Clad, 15 silver targets including a freaking Barber quarter, a beautiful walker and 4 V nickels...
Plus other cool stuff.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2017 05:21PM by REVIER.

Re: Monotone?
Posted by: JJames1610
Date: June 05, 2017 02:34PM
Also David53 if you will turn on bp or boost process, then switch into all metal - its deeper than using the ones before that. Like De, Fa, je, pf etc. The characteristics of bp will carry over into the all metal. Trust me its deeper in all metal this way instead of being in De then switching to all metal. Just a little hint if you do it like this. Don't run sensitivity but about 75. Just a suggestion

Re: Monotone?
Posted by: David53
Date: June 07, 2017 10:59AM
Thank you for explaining everything so well.

Re: Monotone?
Posted by: David53
Date: June 07, 2017 11:15AM
I spoke to person at Kellyco who said threshold can be set in all metal mode and when
switch back to disc mode he said the threshold setting carries over and
effects your disc mode. He told me -5 threshold is best to
use in high trash/iron for disc mode. I have lots of experimenting to perform.

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Re: Monotone?
Posted by: REVIER
Date: June 07, 2017 01:25PM
Quote
David53
I spoke to person at Kellyco who said threshold can be set in all metal mode and when
switch back to disc mode he said the threshold setting carries over and
effects your disc mode. He told me -5 threshold is best to
use in high trash/iron for disc mode. I have lots of experimenting to perform.

I doubt that.
The manuals say nothing about that at all and you would think they would because for some this would be an important feature that they might want people to know about if it were true.
Somebody called Fisher once and a tech there told him the only thresh setting that transfers over from all metal to disc is a setting of +2.
That sounds pretty weird to me and I doubt that is true either.

Until someone with credentials that we can trust knows what they are talking about on this subject, like Dave Johnson, comes on here and adresses this exact subject with true knowledge and facts I would tend to believe that threshold is only adjustable in one all metal mode on the F75.
Then again I take almost everything out there I hear with a grain of salt.

Also after many hours of hunting in extreme high trash/iron environments, pretty much the only kind I hunt in nowadays, I have had a different experience...high threshold works better to unmask in those kind of sites than low ever did, way better...again just what I have seen by actually trying both.



"What if doing the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?”
F70, F2, Compadre, Mojave, Judge2 - 2017....Clad, 15 silver targets including a freaking Barber quarter, a beautiful walker and 4 V nickels...
Plus other cool stuff.

avatar
Re: Monotone?
Posted by: WV62
Date: June 07, 2017 03:30PM
Quote
REVIER
Quote
David53
I spoke to person at Kellyco who said threshold can be set in all metal mode and when
switch back to disc mode he said the threshold setting carries over and
effects your disc mode. He told me -5 threshold is best to
use in high trash/iron for disc mode. I have lots of experimenting to perform.

I doubt that.
The manuals say nothing about that at all and you would think they would because for some this would be an important feature that they might want people to know about if it were true.
Somebody called Fisher once and a tech there told him the only thresh setting that transfers over from all metal to disc is a setting of +2.
That sounds pretty weird to me and I doubt that is true either.

Until someone with credentials that we can trust knows what they are talking about on this subject, like Dave Johnson, comes on here and addresses this exact subject with true knowledge and facts I would tend to believe that threshold is only adjustable in one all metal mode on the F75.
Then again I take almost everything out there I hear with a grain of salt.

Also after many hours of hunting in extreme high trash/iron environments, pretty much the only kind I hunt in nowadays, I have had a different experience...high threshold works better to unmask in those kind of sites than low ever did, way better...again just what I have seen by actually trying both.

I sent Dave J a PM a couple hours ago, but haven't got anything back yet.

Ron in WV



Worked and lived in the Huntington West Virginia area all my life, retired 2010
US Air Force Vietnam Veteran (68-69 & 70-71)
Started getting into metal detecting around 1975

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