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F75 jumping ID numbers?
Posted by: Tony N (Michigan)
Date: June 15, 2017 04:02PM
Hi folks,
Got a question:
When your numbers are jumping all over the place when you've detected a deep coin, how does one even know it's a coin on the F75?

For instance, on YouTube a guy was demonstrating the F75 on his coin garden. There was a quarter at 10 inches, a dime at 8 inches and so on. He'd wave the
coil back and forth over the deep quarter and the detector would beep but the numbers were all over the place. If this scenario was, say, in a park, how would
you know if you had a quarter at 10 inches? How would you know to dig? Just curious. I don't have the F75 but have been looking at it quite a lot. I don't know
anyone nearby that owns one.

Re: F75 jumping ID numbers?
Posted by: RLOH
Date: June 15, 2017 06:30PM
Tony, I did not look for "locked on numbers" with the F75's that I have used. I am mainly a coin hunter so I found three tones worked best for me. Deep coins might flash a good number(80's) but would jump from say the 60's to the 80's. If the high tone repeated, even if weak, and I got a flash of a good number, I was digging. I dug some very deep coins, but it is not foolproof. Shallow, strong signals with jumpy numbers were almost always trash.

Re: F75 jumping ID numbers?
Posted by: James/Texas
Date: June 15, 2017 07:02PM
Coins that are at the edge of detection are difficult for ANY detector to give a proper TID. That is just the way it is. Shallow coins will hit properly but the deep ones are always going to jump. However, the tone should remain fairly stable. THAT is the key and how you know to dig. THAT is something you will learn as you put time with the detector in the field and you dig these types of targets. Not every target you dig will be a keeper, no matter which detector you use! Do not give up on the wonderful F75! Give it some time and listen to what it has to tell you. You will do well!



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Fisher F75 DST

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The only way to find out
Posted by: vlad
Date: June 16, 2017 08:49AM
is dig it--or you will miss the old stuff.
Run full accept and try it on iron and other things that you know the identity of, just to be familiar.
If you are not digging some trash you are really missing the goodies.

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Re: F75 jumping ID numbers?
Posted by: MarkCZ
Date: June 16, 2017 10:13AM
At depth more often than not bad trash don't hit as a coin, but coins or metals like coins give hints to themselves.
And for the record, I've dug thousands of items that were for the most part shallow, had good ID numbers for a coin, but turned out to be,
Wheel Weights,
Match Box cars,
Zippo Lighter lids,
Odd Ball tokens,
Old vintage ink pin caps,
Keys,
Bullets,
Sinkers,
Watches,
Crushed aluminum stuff??
Copper pipe caps,
electrical odds and ends,
in fact the list is endless.
So, whenever you dig based on an ID number ITS NEVER EVER CLOSED TO 100%, so you never really KNOW what your digging.
But, that's part of the hunt! that sinker, junk watch, or that key could have been a ___________________ .

Mark



Avatar, Me and my two brothers from left to right!

WV62 - MarkCZ - Still Looking 52

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Thanks for replies. Do you think the F75 is better than or = the T-2 .. .
Posted by: Tony N (Michigan)
Date: June 16, 2017 10:19AM
Thanks for replies. Do you think the F75 is better than or equal to the T-2 . . . as far as target separation in iron trash and depth?

Re: Thanks for replies. Do you think the F75 is better than or = the T-2 .. .
Posted by: Dave J.
Date: June 16, 2017 10:38AM
The T2 and F75 when operated in comparable modes/processes deliver just about the same performance.

Earlier in the thread the big question was bouncy ID's. Coins and rings (but not necessarily other types of targets) deliver pretty consistent ID when the signal from the target is fairly strong relative to that of electrical interference and ground mineral pickup. You won't usually hear ground mineral pickup but nonetheless it's there. In ground with light iron mineralization you may get fairly stable ID out to 8-9 inches or more. In heavy iron mineralization things may get really bouncy at 6 inches or less.

One of the reasons why we supply ground mineralization bargraphs on some of our products, is so you have a clue as to how deep you'll have reliable discrimination/ID.

It's been said that visual ID is useful if you understand what it is and isn't, but with experience, listening will usually tell you more and deeper. However the same signal strength issues that affect visual ID affect audio discrimination and in heavy iron mineralization audio discrimination on deeper targets will also suffer.

Re: F75 jumping ID numbers?
Posted by: markg
Date: June 16, 2017 11:18AM
As always, you are correct on all points Dave. Nice to read reinforcement facts from time to time.

Re: F75 jumping ID numbers?
Posted by: Coin Rescue Inc
Date: June 16, 2017 11:21AM
One thing about the F 75 is

the tone and ID numbers are separate programs. Hi tone for a very deep good target can be heard without any ID number.

The deeper the target the less reliable the ID #. Soil also plays a part how deep the ID number are 100% correct.

If another type of metal like iron is next to the coin the Numbers will average out and be low and bouncy.

Also any round object will get a sharp or quick, solid repeatable number. (Coins, Can tops, Rings, Washers, Gromits, Shot gun brass casings, things like that)

(For Coins in DE mode) Come to think of it I do not look at the numbers when I swing anymore. I use 3H or DP tone and swing away listening for Hi Tones. Any Slight High tone gets further scrutiny. Number and depth check after pinpointing the source.

3H high tones on nickels as part of the programming

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Re: Thanks for replies. Do you think the F75 is better than or = the T-2 .. .
Posted by: Tony N (Michigan)
Date: June 16, 2017 01:48PM
Quote
Dave J.
The T2 and F75 when operated in comparable modes/processes deliver just about the same performance.

Earlier in the thread the big question was bouncy ID's. Coins and rings (but not necessarily other types of targets) deliver pretty consistent ID when the signal from the target is fairly strong relative to that of electrical interference and ground mineral pickup. You won't usually hear ground mineral pickup but nonetheless it's there. In ground with light iron mineralization you may get fairly stable ID out to 8-9 inches or more. In heavy iron mineralization things may get really bouncy at 6 inches or less.

One of the reasons why we supply ground mineralization bargraphs on some of our products, is so you have a clue as to how deep you'll have reliable discrimination/ID.

It's been said that visual ID is useful if you understand what it is and isn't, but with experience, listening will usually tell you more and deeper. However the same signal strength issues that affect visual ID affect audio discrimination and in heavy iron mineralization audio discrimination on deeper targets will also suffer.

Thanks Dave J.
My other detectors which are not Fisher, and also have visual I.D. also bounce around on a deep coin/ring. The sound, though is super important. I would rely on sound first and foremost and T.I.D. second.
I still have a Coin Strike. I'm sure the F75 and T-2 are light years beyond it.
I didn't know that concerning the bar graphs on some of your detectors. That is surely good to know!
Thank you for your response, Dave. Much appreciated! I've been leaning toward the F75 but am kind of torn between that and a T-2.

Re: Thanks for replies. Do you think the F75 is better than or = the T-2 .. .
Posted by: Dave J.
Date: June 16, 2017 02:15PM
The T2 is geared a little more toward relic hunting, the F75 more toward general purpose. Be aware that the T2 uses DD searchcoils only, whereas the F75 can drive both DD's and concentrics.

You might also look into the F70/TekPatriot, which is a derivative of the F75 with roughly comparable performance, less expensive and some folks prefer it over the T2 and F75 (see especially REVIER's posts)..

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Re: Thanks for replies. Do you think the F75 is better than or = the T-2 .. .
Posted by: REVIER
Date: June 17, 2017 02:43PM
Quote
Tony N (Michigan)
Hi folks,
Got a question:
When your numbers are jumping all over the place when you've detected a deep coin, how does one even know it's a coin on the F75?

For instance, on YouTube a guy was demonstrating the F75 on his coin garden. There was a quarter at 10 inches, a dime at 8 inches and so on. He'd wave the
coil back and forth over the deep quarter and the detector would beep but the numbers were all over the place. If this scenario was, say, in a park, how would
you know if you had a quarter at 10 inches? How would you know to dig? Just curious. I don't have the F75 but have been looking at it quite a lot. I don't know
anyone nearby that owns one.

Using the F2 I developed some hard and fast rules about digging jumpy signals.
Eventually I got to the point that if it didn't jump more than 3 numbers I would dig it, that is a solid signal to me.
All the rest I would leave in the dirt and consider it trash because the many thousands of jumpy targets I did dig up to when I decided to do it this way usually were trash and junk.
If I missed something good here and there so be it...I still dug more treasure than I thought possible after switching to these digging rules of mine and I had more fun hunting plus could do it longer because I wasn't tiring myself out so much.

When I got the F70 I attempted to do the same but there was so much more power things were way juniper than that F2 on most targets, even the shallower ones.
In time I got better at zeroing in on my targets, the numbers jumped way less but still rarely got to a 2-3 number jump unless the target was super shallow so I just amended my digging rules a bit and increased that number range up to about 5 or so and that worked pretty good.
I also learned other things along the way like turning and scanning from another angle to see if those numbers changed and other trash like behavior.
Shallow or deep in good soil if I dug targets in that still small number range they were usually good ones even deep.
Trash next to good targets can screw with you and still give you a big jump but I also listened closely to the tones and adding that together with the screen behavior I got ever better pulling out good targets in a sea of trash.
On my 4th hunt before I really had a handle on anything I found a good ring that way, jumpy numbers because this ring was a nickel signal but lower numbers into small foil and a much bigger jump than I wanted but I kept seeing 31-33 numbers flash by and the tone I heard was quick but nice and solid and high in 4H tones.
I had to dig it because all the indicators that I knew added up despite my lack of knowledge at that time.

On the Fishers some depend on the screen a lot, a huge amount of owners just go by the tones but I learned ways to utilize both to my great satisfaction.

When I was still in good soil I learned to find great treasure in an insane amount of iron.
Tons of jumping, way more than this 5 numbers and up averaging too because of all that iron but eventually I learned new behaviors and indicators and was able to target the good non ferrous targets, repeatable behavior that might look like a jumping mess of nonsense but had patterns you can notice if you observe closely.
Then when I moved to the SE. and my crazy soil with a huge amount of trash and iron same thing, nothing is stable and most everything is a huge jumpy mess but after months I noticed more repeating patterns in that confusing jumping behavior and got deeper and deeper and pretty successful at targeting the better but very masked targets.
Still learning though, I have adapted well but I can get way better than I am now I believe.

Some hunters want tools that lock in on a target and just give you one great solid tone or number at all depths.
If there is such a thing it still has to deal with site and soil conditions plus trash and iron so nothing is going to be perfect at this absolutely everywhere.
When it comes to Fishers this lock in on solid indicators is not going to be the rule but more like the exception a lot of the time and you can see this in that vid.
Doesn't matter, we owners still seem to be able to deal with it all and learn what's good and what's not even with this skittish behavior whether it is by using the screen, tones or both.
If we couldn't these things would never have been sold in the numbers they have been over the years and there wouldn't be so many of us rabid fans that sing their praises and thank the deities for the day these tools came into our lives as I do.

There are patterns and a method to that madness you saw, it might help if you are a little crazy to start with but for those that are open to it hunting with these things are easily learned.



"What if doing the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?”
F70, F2, Compadre, Mojave, Judge2 - 2017....Clad, 15 silver targets including a freaking Barber quarter, a beautiful walker and 4 V nickels...
Plus other cool stuff.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2017 02:53PM by REVIER.

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Concerning adjusting to different environments :clapping:
Posted by: Tony N (Michigan)
Date: June 17, 2017 07:15PM
Revier, you are to be highly commended on adjusting to differing circumstances with differing detectors.
Like the old saying, If you are like a tree and can bend in the wind, you won't break and only get stronger.
Some people just can't adjust.
Thanks so very much for sharing that. It means a lot to me.

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Revier, are there different versions of the F70?
Posted by: Tony N (Michigan)
Date: June 19, 2017 02:52PM
Are there any F70's where they performed a software upgrade?

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Re: Revier, are there different versions of the F70?
Posted by: REVIER
Date: June 19, 2017 03:21PM
Quote
Tony N (Michigan)
Are there any F70's where they performed a software upgrade?

No, pretty much is as it was since the day it came out.
Then again FTP has been rumored to tweak things here and there from time to time on some products, some programming adjustments maybe, but they really don't announce it if they actually do this stuff so who knows if this is true on anything.
Nice to think they would do this stuff if they can, though, I would put that in the category of super customer support even though it is behind the scenes.

I am assuming it might be possible to do an upgrade on DST on the F70 but I am not Dave Johnson or John Gardner so technically I really don't know.
Wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to do that right now if they could, that would bring it uncomfortably close the the flagship models...for now.

The F70/Patriot aren't perfect detectors, there are always some that would like this feature or that added to the mix but they seem close enough for government work to me.
I have found more treasure in not only the easy sites but many, many more difficult sites than I could have ever imagined possible...and it is still happening.

In the case of this one I think that old saying is very apt...
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"



"What if doing the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?”
F70, F2, Compadre, Mojave, Judge2 - 2017....Clad, 15 silver targets including a freaking Barber quarter, a beautiful walker and 4 V nickels...
Plus other cool stuff.

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