Whatzit Forum

I guess we can all agree that this relic is the bottom plate to a butt stock to a gun. It's made of brass and is missing a piece . Can any one date ? or tell from what country ? Rev. War ? French and Indian ? Any help will be great . If you feel its something else let us know. Found detecting a cellar hole in New York 20min. S.W. of Albany . Thank-you. Dutch

Maybe from a brown bess. Does it look like the tip of the tang is broken off?

Yes , the tip is definitely broken off right above the tang.

Thanks for your help Taz42o I think this is it.



Marine or Militia Pat-tern 1756 and 1759:
   The need for a lower cost musket to arm the Marines and English militia led to the adoption of this arm in 1756. It retained the Brown Bess form, but reduced the barrel to 42" (still in .75 cal.), used a wooden ramrod and economized further by omitting the nose cap, tail pipe and escutcheon. Moreover, the rounded sideplate shape of the Long Land design was now flattened while the prior 6" long brass butt tang was shortened to 3 3/4" and included a distinctive upper screw head.
   In 1759, it was upgraded by replacing the earlier versions wooden ramrod with a steel button-head form and adding a tailpipe, nose cap and lengthened upper pipe.

Taz420 nails the hard sutff... WTG

Try googling "India Pattern Brown Bess". The regular brown bess had a slightly heavier butt plate. The very first of the India Pattern was not built to mil specs, it was built originally for the East India Company in 1797 but the English government needed a bunch of guns ASAP and took them (bought) from the East India Company.

They went on to use them up to 1854 when they where disposed of all over the world. Mexico used them as late as 1830s in Texas against the US, and lost! Bringing a flintlock to a repeating gun fight, go figure!

Many where disposed of in Newfoundland and my friends have found several of that shape and design. I am the relic guy for my group and I have researched them. They where sold and used for hunting sea birds and where we found them was a famous spot for hunting eider ducks.

A famous quote concerning the accuracy of the India Pattern was from an officer who said that a man standing 100yds away would have little to fear from a shot from one. They where fairly lethal at 25 to 50 yards but had no rear sight. The front sight was need to attach the bayonet.

HH

1859

Come to think of it, we don't find any gun brass with these guns. Taz's gunis probably be the correct fit for this butt plate. I don't have them nearby and I don't have a picture with me. I don't recall that tang on the 2 we found. So your gun is probably earlier than the "India".

I dug this one today. Very heavy Brass with the screws still attached. Makes u wonder if the rest of the gun is close. I looked, but didn't find anything. Dug next to an antebellum home from 1809.

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Yeah Dutch I bet there aren't many of these dug. I think me and you have some very nice historical pieces of history.

Here is another butt plate that i cannot identify on the internet. Dug in Jan 2013 in Central Virginia. The straight tang is pinned and the end of the tang comes to a point. Found an additional piece of brass in the same hole that has a piece of rotted wood attached to the screw. Found at base of tree about 2 inches in the ground. Can any ID the rifle from this butt plate? thanks