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Analog will never completely die
Posted by: Canewrap
Date: November 02, 2011 06:35PM
It seems like the digital machines just aren't built to take a beating the way the old analog machines were. Also, from what I can tell there is more variability in the individual machines when it comes to the modern crop of digital machines.Without getting into brand bashing I've tried several different digital machines from different manufacturers and I had to send in several because of performance issues that ranged from subtle inability to detect as deep they should (matched up against two other of the same model) to simple inability to operate at all. The new digital machines are small computers and I suspect they just don't have the shock resistance or build quality they need to have for the rigors of off-the-beaten track type of hunting some of us do. I had to post this over in this forum because I know you guys would understand what I'm saying, but then I guess I'm preaching to the choir. Getting so annoyed with my latest digital machine and had to vent.

Hey Canewrap, did you ever find a detector to work in the iron nails?
Posted by: Hombre
Date: November 02, 2011 08:17PM
One of my better analog detectors is the original Bandido from Tesoro, it has a manual 10 turn ground balance, adjustable sens.,disc.,,threshold...... and a true threshold based all-metal mode. It does'nt get anymore analog than that. It's great in the iron nails, around old homesteads, cellar holes, building teardowns etc. If it beeps, dig it, it is just great in the older places, without aluminum canslaw, that stuff is everywhere. It was one of Monte's favorites, I've had mine since 2001, lucked out and found one new in the box old stock, good price too. They are worth looking for and Tesoro still can service them, they even had parts to fix my 'ol Inca (circa 1983) great company:thumbup:



" If in doubt, dig it out"

I use various analog detectors, knobs and switches rule.

Randy from south central Kansas

Re: Hey Canewrap, did you ever find a detector to work in the iron nails?
Posted by: Canewrap
Date: November 02, 2011 09:01PM
The short answer to your question about a detector to work in the nails is no. But, I am still looking. The problem was it needed fantastic separation in the nails, but also needed to be able to pick out a non-ferrous target at 8". I had an Eldorado that I now regret selling. I am appreciating the Tejon I have more and more. It was new when I got it last year and its way better than the used one I had a few years ago. Its more stable, deeper and just better. The one I had a few years ago was practically beat to death when I got it in a trade. I sent it in to Tesoro and it came back better but still not as good as the one I have now. I need to get a smaller coil for it, just haven't decided whether it should be the concentric or a DD coil, since it might just be able to get just enough depth and discrimination to answer the mail on my previously stated problem, with the nails. I have a CW camp that has been hard hunted, but I know there is still stuff there. I was considering the 8.5" Widescan coil, but someone said it won't get any better depth than the 5.75 coil.

Short reply........get the 5.75 concentric, it will surprise you, I have one for my Bandido.......
Posted by: Hombre
Date: November 03, 2011 08:00AM
One of my favorite people to talk to on the phone about detecting is Ty Brook (author of Tech Talk W&E Treasure) He lives, I think, down around your part of the country. He is a very savvy detectorist, the last time I had a conversation with him, he was using the Tejon with the 5.75 "Hot" concentric coil. That was his main detector for relics down in Alabama, at the time he had found some of the rare "AVC" confederate buttons with that set-up.



" If in doubt, dig it out"

I use various analog detectors, knobs and switches rule.

Randy from south central Kansas

I hope not, but they are slowing disappearing. :ranting:
Posted by: Monte
Date: November 05, 2011 09:43AM
It is up to the loyal and avid detectorist to keep the best detectors we have had alive and well. Manufacturers have had to follow some modern electronic design 'trends' that has shifted production to all the techie digital designs. Yes, there are some good models out there that are essentially a digital detector. Some are quite glitchy but others aren't too bad ... however ....

I do have a 'modern' unit (Teknetics Omega) that fits in my personal detector arsenal for some casual hunting needs, and I have a White's XLT that I rely on as my 'cruising unit' for open areas, mainly. Other than those two, and perhaps something else that's new and trendy, if I happen to like it and can afford it, I have been trimming my personal arsenal to mainly good-quality/top-performing analog detectors.

I hunt a LOT of older sites that are quite nail infested, and many that have other varying amounts of iron-based junk. Small hunks of rusty tin, old bottle caps, nuts and bolts, and plain of crap left behind, especially in the old railroad towns I like to hunt. To best handle such challenging sites I have (and still do) relied on a quick-response/fast-recovery 2-filter analog detectors with a smaller-than-stock search coil.

My personal favorites include these:

Tesoro Bandido and Bandido II for manual GB and working in iron nails.

Tesoro Silver Sabre II for preset GB and hunting in iron nails.

Tesoro Eldorado



"Your EYES ... the only 100% accurate form of Discrimination!"


Stinkwater Wells

Just a name that brings back fond memories of old alkali desert favorite sites in Utah, Nevada, and Eastern Oregon. There is no pastime I enjoy more than hunting old sites as best I can, doing research, and helping others learn more about this great hobby.:

My 'Tag-Along' buddies: White's MXT All-Pro and MX5 and other makes and models I want to tote along for fun.

monte@stinkwaterwells.com
(503) 481-8147


Re: Analog will never completely die
Posted by: amcjavelin
Date: November 30, 2011 07:17PM
Well maybe from the usa but analog is produced new and alive and well in europe and there are some decent machines that i use frequently and haven't looked back

Re: Analog will never completely die
Posted by: Canewrap
Date: December 02, 2011 12:46PM
Do tell. What machines have you gotten from Europe that are worth mentioning?

Monte, as usual, is spot on in this subject:thumbup:
Posted by: Hombre
Date: December 03, 2011 06:02AM
As well as others who have suggested a nice two filter detector like an early Tesoro Bandido, Bandido ll or one of the White's Classics, such as the Classic lll SL, IDX, IDX Pro. I would mention that to get the best out of these favorites, you must mount a smaller than stock coil on them to work the iron nails with precision. That would include using the 6



" If in doubt, dig it out"

I use various analog detectors, knobs and switches rule.

Randy from south central Kansas

Re: Hey Canewrap, did you ever find a detector to work in the iron nails?
Posted by: Nauti Neil
Date: December 03, 2011 03:25PM
Hi canewrap,i know this is a little late in the day(i've only just read the post)but have you ever considered an xp goldmax power for use in heavily iron infested areas.They are used extensively on ancient sites over here in britain to find tiny roman and hammered coins in amongst very heavy iron contamination.Thet are not cheap and they take a little learning but you won't find a better machine in the iron.It will also pick out non ferous targets to depths of 8" and more depending on the objects size.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2011 03:28PM by Nauti Neil.

Re: Analog will never completely die
Posted by: amcjavelin
Date: December 03, 2011 04:29PM
I 've been running Deep Tech VLF machines and i have the vista rg 1000 V-2 that runs at 12.5khz dual tone or single really deep machine the disc works like this which is a non ferrous and ferrous detector the disc can be set all the way maxed and it will still find nickels and gold rings just pretty much does away with large iron the only bugger that i sometimes have a hard time with is aluminum but i'm getting the tone down now and i also have the Vista Gold runs at 25khz dual tone as well set up for small coinage and gold items has a signal boost plus a fast and slow recovery switch plus a seperate iron tone switch so you can really pick out the good stuff, really likes buttons these are the only machines i don't think i could ever part with, there that good for my hunting style!

Avid detectorists in Europe , elsewhere AND in the USA know about 'analog' performance.
Posted by: Monte
Date: December 05, 2011 09:27AM
It is easy for many hobbyists around here to get caught up in all the newness that manufactures keep offering. For those who hunt a wide-range of targets in widely-varying sizes and shapes and alloys, it is tough to beat a good analog detector.

Most metal detectors got their start here in the USA, and without a doubt the bulk of the quality built products come from manufacturers here. Yes, there are some well designed models from what we consider to be foreign sources, but most hobbyists are here in the USA and get their detectors her, and for what most hobbyists tend to enjoy. That enjoyment comes from Coin Hunting.

Yes, you can hunt coins in other lands, but separate metal detecting hobbyists into one of two groups:

A "Traditional Coin Hunter" or an "Avid Detectorist."

Metal detector design used to be quite simple, You chose either BFO or a TR model and hunted. Found something and you heard a motorboat increase in beats (BFO) or a 'Beep' (TR), then you recovered it, looked at it, and decided if you wanted it or not.

Then came variable Discrimination and we could reject some of the lower-conductive targets and be a little more selective in what might give us a 'Beep.'

In only a few short years, by '75, we had the VLF (very low frequency) models that gave us ground cancellation from most major manufacturers and we could balance out the ground signal, search, get a 'Beep,' recover it, and take a look to see what we found. Any type of soil in any country, we all had the same options. Then came the dual mode VLF/TR-Disc. models in the '70s, then in 1978 our first motion-based VLF Discriminator (the Bounty Hunter Red Baron), and in no time at all, every major detector maker had copied or designed their own. Most were a fast-sweep 4-filter design, but we could still follow the same steps. All of us might reject some lower-conductivity targets, then search, get a 'Beep,' recover the target and determine if it was a keeper or not.

In '82/'83 we got our first slow-motion, 2-filter type detectors, and very shortly in



"Your EYES ... the only 100% accurate form of Discrimination!"


Stinkwater Wells

Just a name that brings back fond memories of old alkali desert favorite sites in Utah, Nevada, and Eastern Oregon. There is no pastime I enjoy more than hunting old sites as best I can, doing research, and helping others learn more about this great hobby.:

My 'Tag-Along' buddies: White's MXT All-Pro and MX5 and other makes and models I want to tote along for fun.

monte@stinkwaterwells.com
(503) 481-8147


Re: Avid detectorists in Europe , elsewhere AND in the USA know about 'analog' performance.
Posted by: Nauti Neil
Date: December 05, 2011 01:36PM
Keep rambling Monte......that was a really enjoyable piece to read.I've tried to write a post like that many times but never been able to get it across as well as you have.Will people listen???,probably not......most detectorists today still believe that the best results come from using the latest gizmo packed detectors.It's the same over here in England......try to explain the benefits you can obtain from using a really simple detector and they think you're barmy:lol:
Thanks again for the enjoyable read.

Re: Avid detectorists in Europe , elsewhere AND in the USA know about 'analog' performance.
Posted by: Canewrap
Date: December 06, 2011 04:54PM
I think its funny in a way that the popularity of the newer digital detectors will probably slow the pace at which sites are getting cleaned out due to good targets staying masked under the trash that the cherry picking TIDs are leaving behind, instead of cleaning out all the good targets like everybody that buys into the TID idea are thinking.

My son and I have started hunting an 1856 Antebellum mansion that was a hospital during the Civil War and while it was detected alot over the last 30 years there is so much junk left in the front and back yards that I know good finds are still there, the yard is littered with iron. We're going to start gridding the yard and systematically clean out areas and then look for deep targets. I'm sure we'll turn up a few things over the next couple of years as we go back to visit and detect, off an on. The guy loves it that we're detecting his yard, because he wants the historic artifacts, having to do with the house that we find, like the shutter dog and block and tackle pieces we found, but anything CW, (buttons, bullets, etc.) we get to keep.

Re: Hey Canewrap, did you ever find a detector to work in the iron nails?
Posted by: Canewrap
Date: December 06, 2011 04:57PM
No I haven't considered that machine, but I have quite a few sites begging for something that can get that depth and seperation in nails. I'll take a look at it. Thanks. For the record I'm using a Tejon and I am really liking this one. We have moderate to almost bad ground in our back yard. Last year I buried a couple targets, including a flat button (8" deep), slightly smaller than a dime. The TID machines I was using were identifying it as an iron target. I recently tried out the Tejon on it and it identifies it as a good target, even when I go into disc 2, which is set just above foil. I'm working on getting a 5.75 coil for it and if it still can register that button as a good target with that coil, I am seriously set to do some recovery on a few trashy sites I know of. I think I finally have the machine I've been looking for.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2011 05:06PM by Canewrap.

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Re: Analog will never completely die
Posted by: nw1886
Date: December 15, 2011 10:41AM
I have and use heavily the new digital tech. (Love it for how you can "get in" to specific situations.) As much as I enjoy it, I don't know if I can ever get away from using a quality analog unit because of audio strengths. A long hunt with digital is rough on me and switching to analog (after a stretch) proves why that audio is more natural with less "processing stress". Same thing when comparing my music equipment.....and all who listen agree. (Audiophiles call this "warmth", and this means comfort to our brain.) The "window" this offers in detecting, will keep finding stuff digital misses always the case. Face it...comfort does mean more finds at the very least.

Tone ID is huge for me but it has absolutely no added info within the ramp up and ramp down from a target. I can't say wholeheartedly that analog is best.....but what it is best at will keep older well designed boxes (and newer offerings) in demand and in many detectorists hands for sure.

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