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Patriot setting troubles
Posted by: 2ooser
Date: July 12, 2017 03:51PM
Hello I recently purchased the Teknetics Patriot from everything I read it was a great buy for the money. Now I've been using the Garrett Ace 250 the only machine I've own and am having trouble with the settings. It's just seems like I'm not getting any depth with it 3 to 4 inch the most. I been running it sen. 60 thres -3 disc out up to tabs and SL for speed 3H tone. And the reason I been running it at that cause I don't getting all that chatter. I'm I going something wrong I watched tons of videos on the F70 and what little videos that are out there on the Patriot. Please looking for a little help. THANK YOU

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Re: Patriot setting troubles
Posted by: REVIER
Date: July 12, 2017 04:42PM
Quote
2ooser
Hello I recently purchased the Teknetics Patriot from everything I read it was a great buy for the money. Now I've been using the Garrett Ace 250 the only machine I've own and am having trouble with the settings. It's just seems like I'm not getting any depth with it 3 to 4 inch the most. I been running it sen. 60 thres -3 disc out up to tabs and SL for speed 3H tone. And the reason I been running it at that cause I don't getting all that chatter. I'm I going something wrong I watched tons of videos on the F70 and what little videos that are out there on the Patriot. Please looking for a little help. THANK YOU

Is this in the dirt or air testing?
You said it seems like you are not getting any depth but why do you say this?
I can get deep but the bulk of my targets still seem to be around that 3-4" area so if you are saying that because you haven't found anything deeper you need more data.

Do a factory reset first thing, that starts you off clean.
At your settings you should still get at least 6" in air testing and that is in DE according to the two charts I will post below made by a couple of other members.
If not, could have a technical problem.

There are a ton of settings you can use that keep it quiet but get deep...with a good working unit.
Check out the F Series forum for tons of setting advice about the F70 also.

Do a reset and air test again.



"What if doing the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?”
F70, F2, Compadre, Mojave, Judge2 - 2017....Clad, 13 silver targets including a freaking Barber quarter, a beautiful walker and two V nickels...
Plus other cool stuff.




Re: Patriot setting troubles
Posted by: 2ooser
Date: July 12, 2017 05:27PM
REVIER this is all in the dirt. I was out the other day with my Patriot and my son was using the ACE 250 at an old home site. My kid was pulling stuff out 6+ inches where I was only like I said 3 to 4 inches. Now I just figure I'll have to put in the time to really figure out this detector.

Re: Patriot setting troubles
Posted by: chuck, ky
Date: July 12, 2017 05:55PM
Were you not able to hear the 6 inch targets your son was getting?

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Re: Patriot setting troubles
Posted by: REVIER
Date: July 12, 2017 07:07PM
Yes, you could have only been swinging over 4" targets unless you did more scientific testing or checked them against your son's signals before he dug.
Can't assume anything in this hobby.

Bury a coin or two at known depths, 4", 6" 8"...then see what you can hit and what you can't.

I once hit a measured 5" dime with SL, thresh on -1, 4H and sense at 19.
At 80-85 sense I have hit coins at 8-10" in good soil 7-8" in bad soil.
At 60 you should get way past 4"...the start up settings from the factory are set that way for a reason and not just to hit a 4" mark.
Like I said...you need more data.

Also as I said do a reset, that usually fixes most funky problems like this.



"What if doing the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?”
F70, F2, Compadre, Mojave, Judge2 - 2017....Clad, 13 silver targets including a freaking Barber quarter, a beautiful walker and two V nickels...
Plus other cool stuff.

Re: Patriot setting troubles
Posted by: CaDigginDawg
Date: July 12, 2017 08:13PM
I've only had my Patriot for a little
over a week and been out on 3
hunts. All 3 where different locations,
did a reset before each hunt at each location.
I put a small tablet in my pouch and when I
got it set how I wanted it and was working good enough
I wrote the setting down in my tablet. Now the next time
I go back I have a starting point and can make adjustments
from there. I haven't found any targets over 5" , 3"-4" is the
normal where I've been hunting. Try the reset and see what
happens, this is new to me also having a power house detector
that wants to go crazy on ya, don't give up once you figure it
out you'll be happy. The folks on this site know their stuff and
will help ya any way they can.

Good luck & H.H.

Re: Patriot setting troubles
Posted by: 2ooser
Date: July 12, 2017 08:38PM
CaDiggnDawg I like that idea I'm also going to do that. Being in Chicago and hunting a lot of old Chicago Parks I have to mess with the setting a lot to stop it from chattering. I'm not giving up I'll figure this detector out.

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Re: Patriot setting troubles
Posted by: REVIER
Date: July 13, 2017 06:05AM
Quote
2ooser
CaDiggnDawg I like that idea I'm also going to do that. Being in Chicago and hunting a lot of old Chicago Parks I have to mess with the setting a lot to stop it from chattering. I'm not giving up I'll figure this detector out.

Having used and experimented with the twin F70 for over 3 years now if there is a setting combination you can think of I have probably tried it.
I can hunt with extreme noise and chatter if I want, got used to that long ago and these things will stop and tell you in some way when you are swinging over good targets no matter what, but hunting quietly is better for recognizing more targets and the only way some want to hunt.

I learned a few things over the years...
In urban environments there can be lots of EMI and chatter even in parks.
Doing a reset at sites like these might quiet it down a lot sometimes, it is like a reset helps acclimate them to sites with these issues.
Always, always, always do a reset if you encounter any strange behavior or after switching coils and it is imperative that you do this if you ever set a notch.
Reversing out of notches might look like you have gotten rid of it in the slashes up top but more often than not these things might be lying to you and you didn't...a quirk in the programming we Fisher guys have known about for a long time.
Changing frequencies in problem sites can also help, sometimes just one move to another frequency can do wonders.
Always GB if you do change frequencies and it works both ways but the engineers recommend always ground balancing in all metal then switch to disc after.
The lowest three tone settings will be the quietest...1 monotone, 1F and 2F, monotone the quietest of all.
I used to hunt using 4H most of the time and still do once in awhile when quick sweeping parks for coins and jewelry but nowadays if I am not in all metal monotone is what you will usually find me using...also it is fast, responsive and has some great unmasking abilities on everything from low to high disc...especially really low disc.
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?37,2372790

Not only can you use the gain and thresh to mitigate chatter, (and those lower tone choices), but the disc can help in that area too.
The
In very high disc you will get less chatter and you don't lose any depth on high disc using these detectors.
High thresh can get you deep if you can push it, here is a way I hunt sometimes doing that and by using high disc it is possible to do it quietly.
With thresh in the negative it is even quieter, other higher tone choices don't affect the chatter much and can still get very deep with the gain set high.
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?37,2346907
With disc at 65 and nickels notched in I have been able to just about max out the gain and thresh and still stay eerily quiet in some sites I hunt that never are on normal settings...I call this my Silver Shooting Settings method.

These things discriminate using slightly different programming at different settings, the effect is a little higher sensitivity and maybe a bit more chatter at more normal settings.
These things will be the quietest and the most stable with the disc setting from 5-20 but as I said if you push the disc very high it seems to calm them down again.

DP can sometimes be amazing in difficult sites but that is one tone choice you need to practice to deal with and understand it.
DP is actually the only tone choice directly tied to the numbers on the screen so the fastest of all of them in DE.
There is a lag time in all others but it is so short it is all but imperceptible at 78 milliseconds...but it is there.
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?37,2351519

A million ways to set up and use these things are possible and we all seem to do it different but with the same high success rate.
I am on # 2476 of that million possible settings and pretty much all have found me great treasure...but still some are better than others depending in sites and conditions.



If you really need to know the technical stuff about these things here are the specs from an F75 LTD but I believe all units on this platform are the same.

Operating Frequency: nominal 13 kHz, quartz crystal timing reference
13158Hz, 13100Hz, 1043Hz, 12987Hz, 12931Hz, 12876Hz, 12821Hz

Basic Sensitivity: 6 x 10 9 root Hertz (detectivity)
Lag Coefficient: 78 milliseconds
Reactive Overload: approximately 10,000 micro-cgs units (volume susceptibility)
40,000 micro-cgs units with sensitivity < 30.
Resistive Overload: approximately 1,200 micro-cgs units (volume susceptibility)
4,800 micro-cgs units with sensitivity < 30.
Ground Balancing Range: From ferrite to salt, inclusive
Discrimination
Ground Suppression: combination of second and third order methods
ID Ground Suppression: third order
Battery Life: Typically 40 hours with high quality alkaline batteries
Estimated 80 hours with nickel oxyhydroxide batteries
Estimated 65 hours with lithium iron disulfide batteries
Operating Temp Range: 4 to +122 degrees F (-20 to +50 degrees C)
Operating Humidity Range: 0-90% non-condensing



"What if doing the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?”
F70, F2, Compadre, Mojave, Judge2 - 2017....Clad, 13 silver targets including a freaking Barber quarter, a beautiful walker and two V nickels...
Plus other cool stuff.



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2017 06:33AM by REVIER.

Re: Patriot setting troubles
Posted by: 2ooser
Date: July 13, 2017 08:58PM
Ok I was out for about an hour this morning had a nice signal ringing up as a deep quarter. End up being an old up tab but made me feel better it was 8 inches down. It's just going to take some time learning this detector and the numbers as a signal. Right now I listen for tones first then the numbers.

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Re: Patriot setting troubles
Posted by: REVIER
Date: July 14, 2017 04:31AM
Quote
2ooser
Ok I was out for about an hour this morning had a nice signal ringing up as a deep quarter. End up being an old up tab but made me feel better it was 8 inches down. It's just going to take some time learning this detector and the numbers as a signal. Right now I listen for tones first then the numbers.

Well, you are getting depth so that is good.
And yea, really deep tabs ring up as dimes or quarters for some reason, sound good too.
I have dug them as deep as 10"...hate that they are trash, love that there was actually something down there that deep.
Gotta take the good with the bad, all deep targets aren't always going to be tabs.

Sometimes I use just the tones, other times just the numbers for some of my methods, most times I use both.



"What if doing the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?”
F70, F2, Compadre, Mojave, Judge2 - 2017....Clad, 13 silver targets including a freaking Barber quarter, a beautiful walker and two V nickels...
Plus other cool stuff.

Re: Patriot setting troubles
Posted by: Shifu
Date: July 28, 2017 12:14AM
Hi there, i also am new to the Patriots/F70 Family. I was experiencing similar problems with chatter and depth and after a bunch of days of tinkering, reading the manual, forums, tinkering, youtube, tinkering, VIOLA! i've finally found a sweet spot that works for me. I don't want to confuse you anymore than you might already be confused so instead i'm just going to share my settings with you, and do with them what you will.

I live in Southern California and have gone to the park, the beach, and the desert. As suggested I find that keeping my settings lowish simplifies things and still gives me lots of dings. I've eliminated almost all chatter. Don't forget to ground balance every day! Don't over descrim, and DIG EVERYTHING!!! YEAH BABY LETS GET DIRTY!

Program: 1
Disc: Currently set only to 3. I've noticed that this machine is easy to over discriminate so unless you're in a really trashy area I would keep the descrim low and dig everything. Try it in the low settings, i see in most videos people are running it at 15+
Speed: Default - Yes I'm aware that that "SL" is a boost, but i'm still new to this machine so i'm keeping it simple and what works for me. I do play in SL sometimes and just seem to get much more feedback and louder tones in SL. Let's keep it simple and in default for now.
Sensitivity: The areas I've been in can handle a range from 60-88 Ish. I'm currently set to 80 and am pulling target(s) out deeper than 6 inches. Including an old Pin i found. I've heard running it in lower sensitivity can still give you lots to dig, but this is working for me.
Threshold: -3 Why? This is gonna give me feedback. Try to dial it down to a point where you're getting bare minimum radio feedback, then go just one click lower and it should eliminate almost all of the chatter. A little itty tiny small bit is probably okay, it is a sensitive machine. Remember in the Threshold setting each setting has 2 clicks :)
Tones: Let's keep it simple at 2F. Beep and dig and you can get fancy later.
Notch: 1

With these settings if i lower the descrim to 0 or 1 and bump the sensitivity up a bit, it will allow me to air test a nickel at 10-12 inches almost as well as i've seen posted. They also allow me to control the feedback with my descrim/threshold. You can try to find a nice balance between descrim/threshold/sensitivity. Don't run your descrim too high. Make sure your cell phone isn't interfering with your detector, and that your Patriots volume is UP!

The message here is learn to walk with the patriot before we fly with it. I really hope this helps. Everyone on this forum is super helpful and I appreciate all of your input i have learned a lot from reading and have so much more to learn. Best of luck to you and please feel free to offer your suggested settings for the Patriot/F70 so i can give them a go myself as i'm still learning! It is clearly a sophisticated machine, and as has been previously said I can see how there can be many ways to set it up to your personal preference. This really is a great hobby! Cheers



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2017 12:39AM by Shifu.

Re: Patriot setting troubles
Posted by: Shifu
Date: July 28, 2017 02:22AM
Just want to throw in a follow up link to all F-70 / Patriot users. Check this link, about the 4th post down there is a run-down of the settings by a guy named MarkCZ that i found extremely helpful. Cant wait to get out tomorrow and tinker with my Sens/Thresh some more! Also thinking of doing a Factory reset for sh*ts and giggles since i've never done one. Cheers!

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?37,2259407,2259473



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2017 02:24AM by Shifu.

avatar
Re: Patriot setting troubles
Posted by: REVIER
Date: July 28, 2017 03:11AM
Quote
Shifu
Hi there, i also am new to the Patriots/F70 Family. I was experiencing similar problems with chatter and depth and after a bunch of days of tinkering, reading the manual, forums, tinkering, youtube, tinkering, VIOLA! i've finally found a sweet spot that works for me. I don't want to confuse you anymore than you might already be confused so instead i'm just going to share my settings with you, and do with them what you will.

I live in Southern California and have gone to the park, the beach, and the desert. As suggested I find that keeping my settings lowish simplifies things and still gives me lots of dings. I've eliminated almost all chatter. Don't forget to ground balance every day! Don't over descrim, and DIG EVERYTHING!!! YEAH BABY LETS GET DIRTY!

Program: 1
Disc: Currently set only to 3. I've noticed that this machine is easy to over discriminate so unless you're in a really trashy area I would keep the descrim low and dig everything. Try it in the low settings, i see in most videos people are running it at 15+
Speed: Default - Yes I'm aware that that "SL" is a boost, but i'm still new to this machine so i'm keeping it simple and what works for me. I do play in SL sometimes and just seem to get much more feedback and louder tones in SL. Let's keep it simple and in default for now.
Sensitivity: The areas I've been in can handle a range from 60-88 Ish. I'm currently set to 80 and am pulling target(s) out deeper than 6 inches. Including an old Pin i found. I've heard running it in lower sensitivity can still give you lots to dig, but this is working for me.
Threshold: -3 Why? This is gonna give me feedback. Try to dial it down to a point where you're getting bare minimum radio feedback, then go just one click lower and it should eliminate almost all of the chatter. A little itty tiny small bit is probably okay, it is a sensitive machine. Remember in the Threshold setting each setting has 2 clicks :)
Tones: Let's keep it simple at 2F. Beep and dig and you can get fancy later.
Notch: 1

With these settings if i lower the descrim to 0 or 1 and bump the sensitivity up a bit, it will allow me to air test a nickel at 10-12 inches almost as well as i've seen posted. They also allow me to control the feedback with my descrim/threshold. You can try to find a nice balance between descrim/threshold/sensitivity. Don't run your descrim too high. Make sure your cell phone isn't interfering with your detector, and that your Patriots volume is UP!

The message here is learn to walk with the patriot before we fly with it. I really hope this helps. Everyone on this forum is super helpful and I appreciate all of your input i have learned a lot from reading and have so much more to learn. Best of luck to you and please feel free to offer your suggested settings for the Patriot/F70 so i can give them a go myself as i'm still learning! It is clearly a sophisticated machine, and as has been previously said I can see how there can be many ways to set it up to your personal preference. This really is a great hobby! Cheers

Let me repeat these links I had in one if my posts higher up in this thread.
They have all worked well for me so they bear repeating.

You might want to experiment a little with 1, monotone.
It is different than 1F and 2F, both have their uses and I have run with them for hours as I have with all the tone choices in disc but monotone has found me the most especially in difficult dirt, sites and conditions.
There are a few technical reasons why monotone is different than any others including 1F and 2F and it is my #1 tone setting I use in disc.
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?37,2372790,2373028#msg-2373028

DP also can have some very interesting results used by different settings...
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?37,2351519

High thresh...that can have some advantages if you push it and find settings that can help you deal with it...
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?37,2346907,2346907#msg-2346907

0 Disc...
A huge difference in noise and chatter between this number and 1 but it also can hold some advantages if you can learn to deal with it...
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?37,2306599,2307369#msg-2307369



Let me add this to the conversation...
ALL METAL!
Probably my best way to hunt and #1 choice for any site but especially in extreme iron, heavy mineralization and even heavy trash infested public sites.
It took awhile to get used to doing it this way, so much information, chatter and jumping but once I learned to notice the good stuff this became my most productive way to hunt...still is.
I call these blast through settings.
Here I talk about how and why I use them plus a lot about up averaging around iron which these things are programmed to do.
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?37,2322233



"What if doing the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?”
F70, F2, Compadre, Mojave, Judge2 - 2017....Clad, 13 silver targets including a freaking Barber quarter, a beautiful walker and two V nickels...
Plus other cool stuff.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2017 03:18AM by REVIER.

Re: Patriot setting troubles
Posted by: Shifu
Date: July 28, 2017 03:19AM
Wow REV, thank you for the wealth of information!! I am going to dig further in to all of this in the morning. Funny that you mention the high Threshold. I was just outside tinkering and bumped mine up to 9, my machine wen't crazy of course.. started lowering the sensitivity down until it got quiet-ish (to about 35) and wow!!!.. This thing is a beast haha. Where are you SUN!? I want to play!!! Anyways, you're a Legend REVIER, thank you so much for sharing.


p.s. all metal scares me.. so many things blinking and chirps, i'll get there!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2017 03:24AM by Shifu.

avatar
Re: Patriot setting troubles
Posted by: REVIER
Date: July 28, 2017 04:58AM
Quote
Shifu
Wow REV, thank you for the wealth of information!! I am going to dig further in to all of this in the morning. Funny that you mention the high Threshold. I was just outside tinkering and bumped mine up to 9, my machine wen't crazy of course.. started lowering the sensitivity down until it got quiet-ish (to about 35) and wow!!!.. This thing is a beast haha. Where are you SUN!? I want to play!!! Anyways, you're a Legend REVIER, thank you so much for sharing.


p.s. all metal scares me.. so many things blinking and chirps, i'll get there!

Those all metal blast through settings confused me for hours, couldn't make heads or tails of what I was seeing and listening to when I first tried them and I was probably crazy to even try them in a site so loaded with massive amounts of iron but not much else seemed to work for me or anyone else that ever tried hunting this site.
Then on one signal I noticed something, some repeating behavior from two directions and when I dug the target it was in a hole with a bunch of other iron but it was non ferrous.
Then eventually I saw this behavior again and dug up a coin...then another and another.
It got easier as I kept doing it and eventually I could zero in the better non ferrous targets at will...and avoid most of the iron, or at least the iron signals I was not interested in but some I was...I love digging pocket knives in any shape anywhere at any time and this site held many.
A ton of other great things were found at this site that I discuss in more detail in that all metal link above, and I did eventually attempt disc also in monotone and found a coin but all metal worked much better over all.
In a site where many hunted using all kinds of detectors and walked away with nothing I ever heard mentioned by any of them but one silver dime I ended up with all this...once I learned how to use this method and settings to my advantage.
Most of it was found using the same big DD coil that comes standard on the Patriot, by the way.
Turns out this method in great soil but hunting in insane iron works about the same as in my current location and dirt that has a little less iron but tons of trash and much more iron oxide mineralization.
Still, despite my skill level using all those different settings and methods this is probably the most helpful skill out of all of them that I have learned in my entire time spent in this hobby to this day and will pay me dividends far into the future.



"What if doing the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?”
F70, F2, Compadre, Mojave, Judge2 - 2017....Clad, 13 silver targets including a freaking Barber quarter, a beautiful walker and two V nickels...
Plus other cool stuff.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2017 05:21AM by REVIER.




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