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TTF, TTC, 4TF, and 4TC - E-Trac Setup Visualizations
Posted by: Johnnyanglo
Date: March 24, 2013 12:19AM
Sometimes it is easier to understand what the different Audio Tone IDs do if they are displayed in a visual format. Below are the Audio Tone IDs that you can choose on the E-Trac, each with explanation of how to use them (with some subjective input). The visualizations show the TID grid with Ferrous running top-to-bottom from 1-35 and Conduct running from 1-50 left-to-right, same as the E-Trac. If you are new to the E-Trac study these displays so you can better determine which Audio Tone ID to choose.

The display is divided into two or four audio zones, each with their corresponding color. Suggested discrimination areas (DISC) are in lined dark red shading. The light-grey hatched areas represent non-ferrous target rich areas, zones where a target response is likely to be something of value.

The horizontal grey stripe at 12Fe is the "Ideal Non-Ferrous Zone". That is, it is where the majority of good non-ferrous targets would lay if not for down averaging by mineralized soil, iron contamination, and the conduction loss via oxidation/decomposition in targets buried for long periods. The grey stripe is just for reference.

The orange and green stripes are visual examples tied to the narrative explaning how that Audio Tone ID would respond along that vertical stripe. In other words, if a real target bounced up-down along the Fe scale in the orange or green stripe area, what would you expect to hear in the audio tone. This is done so you can think about how each Audio Tone setup affects the target audio.

There are narrative overviews of how the tones can be used or altered with judicial use of DISC to give more intelligent meaning to the audio. Everyone will have different setups for their particular hunting style and sought targets, so these are only suggestions.

Four-Tone Conduct Setup


Two-Tone Conduct Setup


Four-Tone Ferrous Setup


Two-Tone Ferrous Setup




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2013 12:44AM by Johnnyanglo.


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Re: TTF, TTC, 4TF, and 4TC - E-Trac Setup Visualizations
Posted by: BH_Landstar_
Date: March 24, 2013 05:50AM
Nice info, thanks. :thumbup:



To see a sample of the things I found since January 2010..... visit >>https://sites.google.com/site/mdfinds/

Current Detectors
CTX 3030 with standard coil + 17" coil
Pro Pointer
AT Pro -- (Repaired after water leaked into control box, new electronics and front panel -- Thanks Garratt ! Nice job)

Re: TTF, TTC, 4TF, and 4TC - E-Trac Setup Visualizations
Posted by: Jeff in Pa
Date: March 26, 2013 06:15AM
Very nice! I have never really known where the "4 tone" sections were because I never bothered to use it.

I do use TTF sometimes and it has advantages that I like but for me its limited to heavy iron and then I listen to the iron. The Etrac seems to respond faster in TTF than in Multi tone Conduct.

Your illistrations are very good information and thank you for taking the time to create them!



DEUS

Re: TTF, TTC, 4TF, and 4TC - E-Trac Setup Visualizations
Posted by: Johnnyanglo
Date: March 28, 2013 08:23PM
One of the things that became clearer to me in comparing the choices of modes for the E-Trac was just how efficient the 4TF is...

TTF doesn't isolate the deep coins that fall below 17Fe, it is all Low Tone down to 35Fe. There is no audio variation alerting you to a possible coin amongst the iron.

TTC makes all the low conductors like rings, jewelry, and nickels fall into the Low Tone, which is not ideal if audio variation to those targets is desired. Second, TTC produces a High Tone for both high conducting silver and ferrous nails. Thus, a silver quarter is audibly the same as a nail at 35Fe, all High Tone, which is not helpful.

4TC is a mode that does nothing well. Tonal zones don't correspond to desirable targets and doesn't alert to anything in particular. Leave this one alone.

4TF has it all, for me. Doesn't require much DISC to isolate the audio. The Low Tone, above 30Fe, is a tone with a high probability to be iron, and can be ignored (without using DISC). Those Med-Low targets are possible coins in iron and deserve some audio alert, which they get. The Med-High alerts to a zone that centers on 12Fe, the line of best fit for most coins, rings, and jewelry. The High Tone hits the silver/gold high conductors.

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Re: TTF, TTC, 4TF, and 4TC - E-Trac Setup Visualizations
Posted by: ~ACE~
Date: April 28, 2013 06:46PM
Hey guys. I am totally new to the E-Trac...so new, in fact, that will be here in 24-48 hours! Super pumped! Anyways, I have read every threat, post and forum until I had a major brain fart. So many great opinions! Some say use TTF, others swear by 4TF. I really like the concept of 4TF and would hate to miss deep coins. I have read that some deep coins come in with low Fe numbers (01-20) as well as some IH's. I don't want to miss any coin at all! I read that if you are not careful with discrim, you will miss big silver too. Could someone let me know, keeping in mind that I am new to the machine, the best way to run it so I don't accidentally miss any coins. I have been running my old machine in all metal for the past 2 weeks, just to get used to various tones. I would like to have a program that I can use on every hunt, that is tailored to my needs. I hunt mostly relatively clean fields and the odd homestead. Thank you for your help!

Re: TTF, TTC, 4TF, and 4TC - E-Trac Setup Visualizations
Posted by: knightsquad
Date: May 01, 2013 04:10AM
Just wanted to Bump this as I think it is a very good post
that deserves more input especially for us newbies to the E -Trac!
Thanks guys
Pete

Re: TTF, TTC, 4TF, and 4TC - E-Trac Setup Visualizations
Posted by: Johnnyanglo
Date: May 04, 2013 10:47AM
*** Could someone let me know, keeping in mind that I am new to the machine, the best way to run it so I don't accidentally miss any coins. ***

For Hunting mostly shallow coin targets
In neutral ground with few iron targets you can run in QuickMask without any DISC. You can use either TTF or 4TF. TTF is simple - High Tone for most coins and non-ferrous and Low Tone for most ferrous and some non-ferrous trash. Just listen for the High Tone. In 4TF you get more audio discrimination, which some may find confusing, but if learned, it provides more information. Either one would work - TTF is less audio 'busy' and best for new users.

In nail-strewn ground you will get iron falsing with wrap-around high tones near 01Fe-02Fe. This is the more common situation. It can be very hard to handle. In TTF the iron is Low Tone. By adding DISC (above say 18Fe) in TTF the Low Tone can be eliminated and becomes a High Tone only mode. Again, High Tone is non-ferrous. 4TF would work similarly as TTF - adding DISC from 18-35Fe give just 2 tones, with the addition of the High Tone reserved for silver-halves. TTF and 4TF are about equal under this scenario.

For Hunting both shallow and deep coin targets
In neutral ground the copper coins will not be down-averaged into lower Fe values. The E-Trac is very good at getting a precise Co value and in neutral ground the Fe value will be more accurate. The same rules apply: use either TTF or 4TF depending upon your audio preferences.

In moderate nail-strewn ground there is some difference. A coin, for instance, that gives a 24Fe would be mixed with Low Tones for 35Fe iron in TTF. If you choose to DISC out the iron you can lose the coin. If you don't DISC the iron you're left with repeating Low Tones with no differentiation between higher and lower Fe values. Usually a compromise is used in TTF, based on individual preference. Some DISC is used (say from 22Fe-35Fe) while leaving an area for Low Tones to respond (18Fe-21Fe), so some unmasking of those coins is available.
The alternative is to use very little DISC in 4TF and let the audio sounds separate the targets. With the 29Fe-30Fe line DISC'd, the Med-Low Tone between 18Fe-27Fe will give some variation from the probable iron nails. Thus, iron nails get a Low Tone (ignore) or are DISC'd from 29-35Fe and can be audio separated from those targets that are less ferrous sounding (with a Med-Low Tone). Of course, you will have to determine by repeatability and TID stability if the Low Tone (TTF) or Med-Low Tone (4TF) target is worth digging.

In dense nail-strewn ground, the game changes again. You are going to experience continuous machine-gun Low Tones in TTF (assuming 18Fe-21Fe is left open). In 4TF, you will experience continuous machine-gun Med-Low Tones (assuming 18-28Fe is left open). In both cases you are still looking for repeatable one-way (or two-way) TID. Personally, I can hunt these nail-stewn areas for about 1-2 hours, then audio weariness becomes an issue. It is just too much concentration and not at all relaxing. In these cases, I will switch to using DISC to shut off the noise. Yes, some sensitivity is lost, but in heavy iron (or mineralized soil) depth is already compromised (though the FBS design excels over other VLF machines in iron).

4TF JUST THE GOOD STUFF Pattern


Before switching to this pattern I will try and get any non-ferrous target in the ground using 4TF. But be aware, the iron will be falsing to High Tone along the 01-03FE wrap-around zone continuously. That is, you will be getting many High Tones that are just iron. Some new to this will describe the TID as erratic and the audio as overwhelming and confusing. Therefore, in iron you must have that High Tone falsing silenced with some DISC. For people who aren't interested in hunting for old, deep coins in the worst iron fields, then the JUST THE GOOD STUFF pattern will keep them happy. It runs quiet and stable - you aren't going to get much iron and if you do it won't be repeatable (it chirps).

My advice: After a new E-Trac owner has 30 hours of tame hunting, take your E-Trac to the absolute worst location for buried iron. A well-worn gravel parking lot or old homsestead site, something that will cause the audio to scatter tones all over the place and cause the cursor to jump wildly about with each swing. This is your training ground. Spend an hour trying to unmask the non-ferrous targets (not pull-tabs, which are outside the ferrous zone - but rather non-ferrous in the iron zone). Try and locate a clad penny amongst the falsing and machine-gun audio. Learn the difference between the fleeting High Tone false and repeatable High Tones (which are valuable). Learn to hear the Med-Low Tone (in 4TF) that is repeatable or Low Tone (in TTF). Go slow. Be methodical. Check each tone. Did it dissapear on you? It was iron. Does it only hit intermittedly? It is iron. Just be sure when investigating the target to keep the coil movement narrow and confined (just 1-2" in length over the signal). Go back-and-forth along one radial (not randomly). Long iron is super sensitive and will chirp and then be silent. A coin will repeat (often only from one direction if iron is nearby). Turn 90 degrees or so, again 1-2" over top of the target. Still getting at least a one-way repeatable signal? Then dig. Did the chirp dissapear at right angles? It may be iron (or a coin near iron). With the E-Trac, if you sweep from iron-to-coin the coin will be masked. If you sweep from coin-to-iron you have a better chance of getting a hit. That is why you have to investigate from several angles. You should be able to determine the target's nature (good or bad) within 10 seconds, or less. Then move on or dig. When you recover a nail - consider why you got fooled. After you have spent 30 hours in those heavy nail-infested areas - there won't be much left in the ground that will confuse or throw you, and those nail-free areas will seem like a dream to detect.


Re: TTF, TTC, 4TF, and 4TC - E-Trac Setup Visualizations
Posted by: ot1138
Date: May 07, 2013 04:13PM
Dude... seriously, thank you for this. There is so much information in this one post that I am going to have to leave it up on my computer for the next few days to digest it.

This thread should be a sticky!

Re: TTF, TTC, 4TF, and 4TC - E-Trac Setup Visualizations
Posted by: ot1138
Date: May 08, 2013 08:38PM
I took your advice, JohnnyAnglo. Went out to the worst trash-filled place I know... my back yard. Every inch is filled with construction debris... nails, giant pipes, plumbing parts, large framing pieces. You name it.

I put the etrac in 4TF using Andy Sabitch's program. I tried to really open it up but my ears couldn't take it - I couldn't swing even one inch without getting tones. I dug any target that got me a 12-16 FE signal that also jumped into the 23+ zone. I knew that these were going to be bad but I dug anyway. And even before I put that shovel in, I could sometimes tell just how bad it was going to be by using the pinpointer (Once I got a 6" area that set off the pinpointer. It turned out to be a huge corner bracket.)

After a bunch of these I was more selective. Finally, I got a 12-42 signal that kept jumping into the 20s. I tried it from a bunch of different angles and found one that only gave me the 12-42. I use the wiggle method (pinpoint mode is useless in trash) and dug. Got a penny.

Now what's kind of amazing to me is the fact that my house was just built a few years ago. The workers threw construction trash everywhere and just poured dirt over it. But this penny was a 1970. So by using your method, I was able to find an older penny under iron trash landfill. Now that's something.

I got about 2 hours of this practice in. 28 to go ;-)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2013 08:39PM by ot1138.

Re: TTF, TTC, 4TF, and 4TC - E-Trac Setup Visualizations
Posted by: Johnnyanglo
Date: May 10, 2013 10:50PM
From what I've seen, Andy's coin pattern does not silence the wrap-around iron in the upper-right. In heavy trash there will be repetitive High Tone chirps which are not repeatable but are distracting in that zone. I know it is hard to dig targets that you know aren't going to be anything worthwhile - but it begins to hammer home the audio knowledge and develop the ears. When that coin audio is heard in amongst the junk it is recognizable, so when it happens again you are almost startled by the recognizable audio.

After 30 hours of hunting in the worst iron fields all that suffering will pay off. You will be ready to get the non-ferrous targets when others are ready to give up. I think hunting in heavy iron is something everyone needs to get used to - but many avoid.

The right mode and pattern will help keep it manageable. The right search technique will isolate the non-ferrous. In the end, it comes down to knowledge, training, and that yields the confidence to make the finds.

Re: TTF, TTC, 4TF, and 4TC - E-Trac Setup Visualizations
Posted by: evan9r
Date: November 27, 2013 02:36PM
This is a good read and I would like to share my experience with 2TF, 4TF, and 4TC.

I tried TTF a couple of times. Not much luck. Switched back to 4TC and found a deep IH penny that rang up around 24-38 I believe. If I had been in 2TF, I never would have found this coin.

I discovered 4TF and disced out lines 28-30 like Johnnyanglo. I really liked this setting and hunted like this for about 10 months. Made some great finds with it and hunting seemed to come easier once you could tolerate the constant low tones. I really felt like I was finding everything I could at my heavy iron sites. Well..I was wrong. One day I was at a site I have made very few good finds among lots of iron and I found a 1869 2 cent piece that came in 01-32. I was perplexed but it sounded good so I dug it. The same coin reads 12-32 in air tests. Over the next couple days I went back to that site and cleared out a 20 ft area around where I found that 2 center. I gridded the area heavily. Dug all the targets and chased every iffy signal I could. Thinking there could be nothing left and with nothing left to lose, I switched to 4TC one day and within 30 mins I found 6 more good targets including a gold plated cuff link, part of a gold plated ring, and a carved civil war bullet. How could this be?

I did some rough testing the other night and this is what I noticed. I placed a bent nail and a shotgun shell right next to each other and in 4TF with a wide open screen, it gave a low tone only, no high tone peep at all. I would not have dug this. I then switched to 4TC with moderate disc. (28-35 blocked), and it gave a choppy but distinctive high tone. I would definitely investigate this further and dug this if I was in a good location.

So my conclusion is this. If the site is not saturated with iron, 4TF works great and you can easily cherry pick the good targets from amongst iron. I would use this for a site that you may only get to hunt once or twice. With 4TC, good targets "bleed" through the iron better. I wish I was better at explaining why this happens but unfortunately I can't.

Re: TTF, TTC, 4TF, and 4TC - E-Trac Setup Visualizations
Posted by: ArnieTX
Date: January 02, 2014 07:28PM
Thanks for the info - I ran 4TF with an open screen today and got used to it. I've been hunting in 2TF with the default relic disc on and have done pretty good. I'm becoming more of a sound hunter and not too worried about the TID. I dig anything that's not a grunt or a null. I'm also learning how to dig some deeper items along with smaller shallower targets. The Etrac is really coming together for me and I'm learning to squeeze those good signals out of the junk. Wiggle is key.

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Re: TTF, TTC, 4TF, and 4TC - E-Trac Setup Visualizations
Posted by: jughed440
Date: January 31, 2014 11:00AM
Thank you so much for posting this. I have posted another topic requesting advice for settings to use on a trashy 1800's farm home site that I have searched many times before. This site was virgin when I first hunted on it and it has yielded quite a bit of silver, large cents, indian heads, and nice relics too, including a silver thimble (all were found with an older Minelab Sovereign). Replies suggest TTF, which I will try, but after reading your well-written topic I will definitely give 4TF a try also. I have not been back to the site since purchasing the E-trac and this would be perfect grounds for comparison testing. I'll grid the areas of this site on which the most coins have been found and search using TTF. Afterwards I will use 4TF to see what it can do.
Alas, it won't happen until that "global warming" thaws the ground.



E Trac, SEF 6X8, X1 probe, Gray Ghosts.
Garrett AT Gold, 5X8 coil, GPP.

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Re: TTF, TTC, 4TF, and 4TC - E-Trac Setup Visualizations
Posted by: dign-nbama
Date: June 01, 2014 07:21AM
Wow,, good post.. I needed this.. Thanks Johnnyanglo for starting this post and sharing your experience and everyone elses input... :thumbup: :thumbup:

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Re: TTF, TTC, 4TF, and 4TC - E-Trac Setup Visualizations
Posted by: dign-nbama
Date: June 01, 2014 11:18AM
Here is a video using some of Johnny's settings, just had to run out and try, here is the results, again thanks Johnny... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKSwKG_2870

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