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Re: Why do they say Deus is not good in modern trash?
Posted by: calabash digger
Date: September 08, 2017 02:47PM
tones trump numbers on the deus . I don't think a lot really ever figure out just how nuanced the tone system is on the deus. A coin shooter could use both and do fine...but trust the audio more imo



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2017 02:47PM by calabash digger.

Re: Why do they say Deus is not good in modern trash?
Posted by: sprchng
Date: September 08, 2017 04:12PM
Tones trump numbers on FBS and other machines as well and they also trump the digital R2D2 language of the Deus.

Coin hunters , or those who hunt in modern trash , are probably more astute to the tones of a machine than a relic type , dig everything , ferrous vs non ferrous , 2 tone carpet of nails relic detectorist. The Deus does indeed have a "round sound" that is very informative but a great deal of modern trash can sound round. Other machines are much better at saying "it's round , but also trash" than the Deus. I hunt the Deus in cleaner modern settings frequently and with excellent success using full tones , but when the can slaw and the aluminum screw caps get thick , it goes back in the truck and the etrac/CTX duo come out because they are just flat better in that scenario.

Re: Why do they say Deus is not good in modern trash?
Posted by: enderman
Date: September 08, 2017 04:18PM
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calabash digger
Thats a good question as aluminum is not my speciality... please enlighten us.

Its all about that "pop" and the tendency for a higher frequency machine to compress the upper range of tones. This is advantageous because it's easier to catch gold while digging "copper".

As you already know, you need to use full tones. The machine needs to be "verbose", this is to let the "round sounds" stand out against the can slaw. Thin foil is IDed by it's tendency to iron fart with a sloppy swing. Larger aluminum can slaw can sound pretty good but usually gives itself away if you swing from different directions, it gets irregular.

What aluminum to dig depends on how much is there. Ideally and eventually I dig it all. However first you need to cherry pick, look for low hanging fruit like zinc penny, aluminum screw cap, higher pry-tab/beaver tail tones. Bias towards the upper mid tones. It's OK to blow off the odd lower pry tab, you might miss a smaller ring (or other gold), but the big ones are virtually indistinguishable from a zinc penny etc in the field. While this may seem obvious and simple to some, it really comes down to execution. The "full tones" on the deus are more reminiscent of the primative Minelab Excalibur tones. A problem with the newer "multitone" explorers/etrac is an extra overlay of tones. (Same with using 3,4 tones etc. on the deus) this makes what should be "trashy" sounds to try and sound "round". This causes the user to dig an excessive amount of trash that would otherwise be obvious by using a more raw audio like Deus full tones.

Some can slaw can sound "round" but it will be a lower mid tone which is why it is OK statistically to not dig it all and focus for higher mid tones. That is why the rings I found are substantial. The smallest one was found early in a hunt, if it was later in the day or I was overwhelmed I may have not dug quite that low but one thing about it is that "pop" from all directions. Canslaw in the ground doesn't sound like it's jumping out of the ground like that, the tone is too wide. Ill have to check on an American zinc, it should be similar, but I absolutely love a Canadian zinc penny tone. For those who really want a number just for reference, a couple of those rings are in the low 80s. 10K gold is usually 50% or more silver which is why coin size rings sound more like copper/silver then they do pure-ish low alloy aluminum. (Moderate sized canslaw from the body of the can.)

Similar to hunting in iron looking for a high tone trying to find silver, it's trying to find round, "poppy" zinc in a sea of aluminum. Instead of ferrous/nonferrous digging, take it one step further into the realm of nonferrous/nonferrous digging.

This is why numbers don't matter because they can't tell you the SHAPE of the target like good raw audio can.

I hope this helps clarify things a bit. The shallow to mid depth silver is pretty straight forward, dig pennies = silver. You know more then I do about how deep silver sounds, well the mid conductors change a bit too but is a bit beyond the scope strategy for low hanging fruit, we can discuss that and how it relates to nickle another time. Notice I never really compare gold to nickle, only copper or aluminum.

I really appreciate your videos. I got enough confidence from Gary's videos to give the deus a shot, however your videos gave me a real boots on the ground type advice filmed in a similar environment.

Re: Why do they say Deus is not good in modern trash?
Posted by: enderman
Date: September 08, 2017 04:37PM
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sprchng
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Mkus
I dig way more with Deus than my Etrac but I don't mind because my elbow never hurts with Deus

Exactly! Anyone with $100 detector or a basic PI can go dig everything and call themselves a relic hunter.
When I used to hunt ducks we used the "in hand identification method" to ID birds in order to not exceed the point limits,,,it wasn't ideal or very precise.:thumbdown:
I prefer to not use that method detecting because digging is more strenuous and public parks full of modern trash are becoming a fragile and endangered venue for detecting. The FBS machines , as well as others , are simply better at letting a detectorist make an educated guess at WHAT they are digging up.

I disagree.

I consider myself very proficient with all the VLF minelabs, the deus is just easier to use then playing digital Keno on a minelab.

If you are that confident with your minelab means you are missing really good stuff.

A $100 detector can ID a 5" penny as good as a FBS. You have to learn how to go deep with the FBS but it takes a lot more time to finally reach that epiphany.

The Etrac has something like 1500 TID segments and I have dug silver and copper coins at hundreds of different TID's. The good coins hit different TIDs with every swing, multiple TIDs within a swing. At that point you would be better of with BBS non segmented tones and not FBS elevator tones.

Re: Why do they say Deus is not good in modern trash?
Posted by: enderman
Date: September 08, 2017 04:41PM
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Tony N (Michigan)
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enderman
Well last week that question might not have been silly because I was driving around with a bag of garbage in the back of the truck. Picture a ball of mostly non-ferrous metal about 24" in diameter.

I see you've been here a while so you've heard it all before about aluminum ad-nausea, everybody has, they say its common knowledge yet gold is hard to get right?

So let's play a game. I don't have the trash to show you, but I do have the coins and such.

Looking at this pile of metal, does anything stand out?

Assuming you could see the bag of aluminum I threw out, do you think there was anything special about it? If so, how do you think I was able to determine the "special" aluminum. Serious question, give it some thought.

Well you certainly are very good at what you do as can be shown by all the fantastic gold you have detected! I was just curious how much trash you had to dig to get all those great finds.
It would be nice if we never dug one piece of junk to find a good find. It just doesn't happen in the real world. At least not with me. I was just wondering what your percentage of trash to good jewelry finds were.

See my response to Calabash above, it's not really trash I'm looking for so, it's what you keep that is more important.

I like to think of it as coins/jewlery ratio. This particular site is a 50:1.

If I dig 50 coins I will get one jewelry item (could be junk) or silver coin at this particular site. At another site it is 12:1 on a good day, but it's really hard to get 12 coins there.
It's all relative to your town and particular site.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2017 04:42PM by enderman.

Re: Why do they say Deus is not good in modern trash?
Posted by: enderman
Date: September 08, 2017 04:52PM
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Southwind
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If you guys are wondering what the TIDs are,
A: I don't know.
B: Numbers don't matter and
C: Numbers are for suckers.

And therein lies the reason you say the Deus does fine in modern trash. Might as well buy your a beep-N-dig.

As a very selective hunter, not by choice mind you, when I bend over it's got to be worth the dig. Numbers DO matter, and if they are not reliable it is worthless to me.

Do you think I have never beeped and dug before?

There is no comparison. I can say that with the upmost confidence as I tried my best at that site this year with a top of the line beep and dig. No sane person can do more then 2 or 3 short hunts with a beep and dig at this site, it's just not practical or fun.

To add to this, the numbers are based off the audio, so the numbers will never be better, only worse then the audio. It's second hand information.

If numbers are so important, can you tell us what number(s) my gold rings are?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2017 05:00PM by enderman.

Re: Why do they say Deus is not good in modern trash?
Posted by: enderman
Date: September 08, 2017 05:13PM
Quote
sprchng
Tones trump numbers on FBS and other machines as well and they also trump the digital R2D2 language of the Deus.

Coin hunters , or those who hunt in modern trash , are probably more astute to the tones of a machine than a relic type , dig everything , ferrous vs non ferrous , 2 tone carpet of nails relic detectorist. The Deus does indeed have a "round sound" that is very informative but a great deal of modern trash can sound round. Other machines are much better at saying "it's round , but also trash" than the Deus. I hunt the Deus in cleaner modern settings frequently and with excellent success using full tones , but when the can slaw and the aluminum screw caps get thick , it goes back in the truck and the etrac/CTX duo come out because they are just flat better in that scenario.

Just curious why leave the aluminum screw caps, up here that leaves out big gold rings, large cents, musket balls and all the deep and small silver?

Deep silver is in the low 30s on the etrac. I've dug silver coins with the etrac where the first number was bigger then the second, lol. Not being a dink just keeping it in perspective.

Re: Why do they say Deus is not good in modern trash?
Posted by: sprchng
Date: September 08, 2017 05:55PM
Keep on digging enderman
I'm usually good for about 200 recoveries on a decent hunt and typically come out with 150 coins , jewelry or "good" targets. Why lower the percentage digging the Al caps?

Re: Why do they say Deus is not good in modern trash?
Posted by: enderman
Date: September 08, 2017 07:16PM
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sprchng
Keep on digging enderman
I'm usually good for about 200 recoveries on a decent hunt and typically come out with 150 coins , jewelry or "good" targets. Why lower the percentage digging the Al caps?

I mentioned above why one would want to dig 30s with a Minelab. Perhaps the goal is just coffee money and time spent?

Something doesn't seem right with your numbers, we would need some clarification. I know the Minelabs very well.
I'm not sure what you define as "coins" jewelry or good targets, but it can't be too exciting of a hunt if you're skipping the best round sounds because the etrac doesn't see the small stuff very well at all. So by jewelry you must mean mostly brass and some silver rings?

Assuming you are in the USA means that your clad digging is very easy, especially if one wanted 150 a day. So for old coins you must be relying on shallow coins because there is no way you have your ears on properly to hear the deep stuff if you're blasting out 150 copper tones in a hunt. FBS is a 1.5kHz trick pony, yawn inducing, very out of place in the modern trash, IMO, again depends on what your goals are. Though if you have that much invested in machines lets not B.S. each other you want more then clad and shallow mostly modern silver.

The Deus is a very liberating machine.

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Re: Why do they say Deus is not good in modern trash?
Posted by: BarryL
Date: September 09, 2017 07:03AM
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Tony N (Michigan)
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Mkus
I fig way more with Deus than my Etrac but I don't mind because my elbow never hurts with Deus

What do you mean you **fig** way more with Deus? What is "fig"?

I think he meant "find"

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Re: Why do they say Deus is not good in modern trash?
Posted by: BarryL
Date: September 09, 2017 07:05AM
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BarryL
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Tony N (Michigan)
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Mkus
I fig way more with Deus than my Etrac but I don't mind because my elbow never hurts with Deus

What do you mean you **fig** way more with Deus? What is "fig"?

I think he meant "find"

nope he meant digs more My Bad

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Re: Why do they say Deus is not good in modern trash?
Posted by: BarryL
Date: September 09, 2017 07:17AM
I know from your post that you are not a novice with the Deus . So with that being said and from the pic you posted is the program settings you use secret because I don't figure your using the preprogrammed settings . I am new to the Deus but not new to detecting been doing it for over 30 years .Have used Mine labs as well as Garretts and Whites , Fishers and Tesoros most Beep and Dig units of each brand I do pay more attention to tones and the crispness of the tones rather than the numbers but do use the TID as well , so if its not a secret could you post your settings going to try it the first time tomorrow or should I just use the Basic 2 program which from the manual states will help eliminate bottle caps if I read it right Thanks

Re: Why do they say Deus is not good in modern trash?
Posted by: Blank Planet
Date: September 09, 2017 07:27AM
think spot has a whole heap more to do with good finds than some secret program :biggrin: can have all the secret programs but if the stuffs not there the programs don't make it and spit it out the end of the coil :thumbdown:

I do agree with one thing the Deus has sound nuances that makes it easier to leave canslaw behind , but its a spot 1st, detector and its user 2nd.

so look for the right spots 1st :biggrin:

BP

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Re: Why do they say Deus is not good in modern trash?
Posted by: calabash digger
Date: September 09, 2017 08:55AM
The programs are NOT secret its a machine and it has settings that change it performance wise. Ask and someone will give you a number of programs but they must just be your base and you MUST learn the machine well enough to set it up for your sites if you want to master it. What type of site you hunting? iron? etc?

Re: Why do they say Deus is not good in modern trash?
Posted by: enderman
Date: September 09, 2017 10:52AM
I don't mind sharing the program(s).

Is it the site or the machine? As mentioned I've hit this site with other machines, it's a night and day difference. A friend of mine was also beep and digging there for most of the summer with no luck, now he has a Deus and is hittin it.

Actually Calabash is running the machine right IMO. See, the Deus isn't nearly as complicated as it seems at first. These programs are more alike then different. Deus fast ilk.

Here is what I have on the puck right now.

11: Calabash relic.
12: Gary's sifter
13: Calabash relic hot
14: Gary's sifter hot.
15: 2.5 reactivity, Sens 86, TX 1, -1 silencer.
16: 2.5 reactivity, Sens 90, TX 2, -1 silencer
17: 2.5 reactivity, Sens 93, TX 3, -1 silencer
18: My "deep park" which is just like Calabash Relic but with -1 silencer.

I mostly use the sweet 16 program which you can consider "Deus moderately fast" as a general purpose setting. (~70% of the time)
When the trash gets dense I switch to Gary's sifter which is absolutely brilliant. (~30% of the time)

Last hunt I was playing with "sifter hot" to punch a little further between the aluminum in search of fainter high conductors.

I alternate between working deep in the clearer areas then dive into the trash, then back out to the clearer areas, mostly dictated by my mood and finds.

There are some other previously fruitful sites I would like to go back to, try and work some of the deeper "relic" settings more but I'm having too much fun right now, this site might only be here for a limited time.

I've been getting coins a jewellery and other sites too, just nothing notable yet, (8-10lbs of coins and junkers) but with patience they will produce.

Also my water and relic season is just kicking into high gear. Gary's sifter program is ridiculous close to the shoreline where the iron is thick. This spot is machine-gun nail zone, the predominate wind blows the ice on that shore which melts and drops nails and stuff from ice fishing etc. I'm talking 20-30 iron farts per swing, not exaggerating. (Granted some are probably shallow "double beeps" but you get the idea it's thick)
The problem with this site with a Minelab or a beep and dig with a small coil is that when the target moves it disappears in the iron with those machines.(Do to nulling.) With the Deus full tones I can chase the target making them easier to recover. See the conditions I look for are clay, which can be hard to scoop stuff from.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2017 10:53AM by enderman.

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