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Re: hunting in trash
Posted by: sube
Date: April 19, 2016 08:28PM
I also got out today went to a church that is not there anymore just the cemetery 100 yards behind where it stood .So I started to do some mode comparisons I would run in high trash find a repeatable signal and switch to combine I dug about 20 good signals mostly nails and round iron pieces when I went into combine and sweep the targets it would like tony said be a little scratchy not quite good .

Then I found another signal in high trash and check it in combine the signal repeated both ways a good signal so I went back to high trash and sweep the target again this time listening very carefully sounded real good in all directions the cursor was almost locked on at 18.40 then back to combine ferrous coin could not get the cursor to lock on in one spot it would come and go but sounded real good .So I started to sweep the target again good sound both ways so I added disc to the 31 line to 35 now that target was really clear hardly any grunting with the target if I stay right on the target and wiggle in that spot it was all high tone if I sweep the target I would pick up the iron which distorted the signal .

I dug the target 3 inches down and to one side I get a nail but there was something else in the hole at 6 inches a wheat back yes . So since I had the hole opened up I place 2 nails and the penny like my video and covered it up back to high trash good signal both ways with a occasional false then I tried ferrous coin combine open screen no disc and got a high tone both way (what) it was a high tone mixed with a grunt on each side . Now I added disc to the 31 to 35 line no grunts just a nice high tone with a occasional false .

Put the nail and coins on the ground like in the video and sweep it in ferrous coin combine and guess what 3 low tones so I am wondering if it is the sandy soil I have in my yard. Because now I know that combine works like it is suppose to . By the way I tried this at another site same thing it gave a low high low in the ground then on top of the ground it gave a low low low

What did I learn that little bit of disc 31 to35 made that signal as clear as a bell compared to just open screen and besides I don't have to listen to all that iron .Now this does not seem like much but when that coin is with nails or iron it is a lot easier to pick that high out of there without all that grunting .

So if you get a distorted high tone signal try to get the best sound out of it then wiggle over that exact spot if it is clear in combine I'm digging it . The reason it is distorted is because your going over the iron with a wider sweep by staying tight to the spot ferrous coin combine well give a good signal . sube



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2016 08:39PM by sube.

Re: hunting in trash
Posted by: sube
Date: April 22, 2016 08:37PM
[/img] Remember when I said that I could not get a high tone in my yard with nail dime nail in combine well I had set my disc line at 31 to 35 there was another nail I had left by the hole didn't here it because I had it disc out :veryangry: which messed up my testing :nono:

Anyway back to the hunt here are the settings I used pattern 1 was total open screen ferrous coin combine fe line at 26 pattern 2 was open screen ferrous coin combine fe line at 26 with disc set at 31 to 35 my user button was high trash open screen conduct 4 tone pattern 2 for user screen was open screen with 31 to 35 disc out .

Now I would run in high trash open screen hit a signal and switch to pattern 2 high trash with 31 to 35 disc out when I was in pattern 2 sometimes the cursor would lock on the target better compared to pattern 1 such as the 1920 penny I found which happens to be the only coin I would not of dug in my combine modes this had a lot of iron with it mostly nails.

After finding the object I would switch to pattern 1 ferrous coin combine if I got a high tone with grunts I would go to pattern 2 ferrous coin with the 31 to 35 line disc out this made it a lot easier to hear just the high tone okay .Sounds like a lot of switching but can be done in about 15 seconds or less .

Getting back to ferrous coin combine it's hard to fool this mode real hard the only way you can mess it up is by not getting directly on the target when wiggling I think if you dig iron in this mode you are really stretching for a good signal it is that good trust me .Very hard to fool period .

I think if I had the 6 inch coil I would of got that 1920 penny because there was just to much iron under the stock coil also the two pieces of jewelry were not very good in ferrous coin combine they were ragged cursors and sounded fuzzy I think it has to do with the shape of the item ferrous coin really likes round things .

High trash sees all the conductive targets and iron that is conductive where as ferrous coin combine is very selective at what it gives a high tone to , but you will miss targets with ferrous coin that are with iron because you have to be dead on that high tone to give a high tone and it's hard in iron Lot's of iron to hit that exact spot .Now high trash really doesn't care because it doesn't have to be dead on like ferrous coin combine so it will see more targets than ferrous coin combine which is great because you can at least know where the target is because it alerted you to it .

I think I'm going to name combine mode as the confirmer it's that good just got to hear what it's doing when in iron especially with all the grunts and falsing going on that little bit of disc really helps clear a lot of the signals up. I also dug about 20 more nails just to make sure that ferrous coin combine was right and it was :thumbup: sube



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Re: hunting in trash
Posted by: trojdor
Date: April 23, 2016 05:44AM
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sube
I think if you dig iron in this mode you are really stretching for a good signal it is that good trust me .Very hard to fool period.

Sube,
Something I don't see talked about very often, is that those of you blessed with extremely low iron mineralized ground have it made when hunting in FC.

Because in my ground...Colorado and New Mexico...if you hunt exclusively in FC, you'll get fooled and dig almost every nail in the ground. :(

The more iron mineralization there is in the ground, the more likely it is the CTX will call a nail a coin if using Ferrous Coin.

In other words, where the FC works great for you, as far as accuracy in your ground...it works horribly for me, and is the least trustworthy of all the modes.

I wanted to point this out because over the years, many guys have posted 'magic' programs almost exclusively using Ferrous Coin, and they simply don't work in all types of soil.
They certainly don't work in highly mineralized dirt.
Guys around here think they can use those 'magic' setting, then get so frustrated they want to smash and/or sell their CTX because one-size really doesn't fit all.

We need to occasionally point out that the CTX manual recommends different separation modes for different soils for a very good reason.
FC is absolutely a 'golden bullet' for non-mineralized soil...but for highly mineralized ground it's more of a 'lead balloon'.

And before I sign off, I have to say I'm also jealous of how nice your coins come out of the ground...they're beautiful. :)
Mosy of my old nickels and pennies look like crusty buttons in comparison...

HH, and thanks again for all the time you take experimenting and posting.
:)
mike



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2016 05:47AM by trojdor.

Re: hunting in trash
Posted by: sube
Date: April 27, 2016 12:09PM
trojdor What I should of said was if your in low trash high trash ground coin or ferrous coin ( combine ) will give you the most accurate vdi and it's hard to fool .

Now I wonder when people get in trouble using combine and it turns out to be a nail or other iron object that vdi as a coin that there using the correct separation mode .

To give a example say your running ferrous coin and your sense #s are 23 to 19 and then out of nowhere they drop to 19 to 15 well what just happened you are on more mineralized soil even if your soil is mild or moderate . Say your hunting in a area that your #s are holding 23 to 19 you hit a area that has lot's of rusted away caps or other iron objects making the soil more mineralized than where you were a minute ago so falsing starts and more clatter and pops if you run auto +3 your detector well go down #s wise to say 19 to16 and the noise will go away with falsing clatter and pops .

In these areas maybe you should go to ground coin or high trash regardless if your soil is moderate or mild by being in ground coin or high trash you should be able to run hotter than in ferrous coin in this location ?

trojdor is correct in not using what other people use you have to find out what's best for you .

The best way I have found is when you find a 6 inch coin is to run all the separation modes on it and see what gives the best signal and adjust your settings to that . sube

Re: hunting in trash
Posted by: IDXMonster
Date: June 18, 2016 11:21PM
Sube....A MILLION thanks for all of your experimentation and detailed relay of information regarding the different modes and combinations of settings. The CTX is TRULY an engineering marvel,if there's a good coin around chances are quite high that the CTX will find it,provided settings are at least in the ballpark. It's pretty tough to mess it up except for the most difficult coins to find,whether they be on edge,masked,etc. I've had GREAT success with the stock and 17" coils,the 06 does well but my sites are larger,it's not necessary most of the time. The 06 does great when I've used it,depth is quite amazing as well!
Please keep this thread going as time goes on,all of it is VERY interesting and helpful! Thank you!!

Kevin

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Re: hunting in trash
Posted by: jhittle
Date: June 24, 2016 02:46PM
is there a set of published or recommended ranges for the CTX on Mineralization I have not been able to find clear documenting on what is considered High Medium and Low Mineralization, what are the guidelines you use or recommend?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2016 02:54PM by jhittle.

Re: hunting in trash
Posted by: sube
Date: June 26, 2016 09:42PM
ihittle Most people go by the sensitivity #s your machine wants to work at 1 to 10 would be high 10 to 20 medium and 20 to 30 low this is how most people judge the mineralization in there soil . sube

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Re: hunting in trash
Posted by: amberjack
Date: June 27, 2016 02:30AM
thanks for the tip on adding a bit of disc in the iron and also maybe trying different modes if auto numbers drop will give it a try :biggrin: anyway to squeak out one more coin is fine with me.

good tips, and thanks to all who post stuff up.

oh one thing worth a try is to go over the spot starting at 1 on noise cancel channel then 2 and on up you might get a surprise, one tip I found by fiddling don't know if anyone else has done this but anyway give it a try see what you think its something I stumbled across sort of by accident :biggrin: happy accident :clapping:

AJ

Re: hunting in trash
Posted by: sube
Date: July 24, 2016 08:53PM
Quote
TrpnBils
The picture below illustrates where I'm at with target trace. I know it's a powerful tool, but i can't seem to prove that to myself. When I get something that looks like the screenshots on that Minelab article that was linked a few replies back, it almost always ends up just being garbage (mixed with other garbage). There's something I'm missing, and I know that...especially at depth (even in a test garden where I know there is something) a lot of times I can't even get a mark on my screen even though it gives me audio. Thoughts?


Target trace is tied to the audio when the display paints a picture but it is a separate circuit from audio to prove it's separate reject your whole screen target trace still works . But when ran with audio the #s and trace work the same as in one .

Target trace and audio are both affected by sensitivity the higher the sensitivity the better the trace will be displayed the less sensitivity the weaker the trace in my soil running at 23 for sense just gives me a trace at 7 I/2 inches maxed at 30 for sensitivity I can get 9 inches if you want more depth on target trace you have to look at the screen carefully the area that is a light shade compared to the rest of the screen is where your trace is happening it's very light blue gray in this area a good trace will be red .

So if your in your coin garden running sense at 23 you will not paint a trace on your screen on a 8 inch coin .You may have a light blue or gray trace in that area if you look close to get a better trace you have to crank the sense up .

(Now sensitivity will control the trace in pinpoint) also but pinpoint remains at max depth regardless of sensitivity #s So if you go to pinpoint sizing with trace you can only build a trace as deep as your sense is set at . When in pinpoint sizing you can run your sensitivity much higher than disc mode which is a motion mode and pinpoint sizing is not a motion mode there by making it less prone to falsing and other noises . Pinpoint sizing is not a pure all metal mode it still using a form of disc ground minerals and such but in reality it's quite close .

I like to engage pinpoint sizing off the ground if you engage it over the target it tunes to that ground and if you engage it on the ground by the target it will tune to that ground where I'm at I would be tuning it to another nail or something .Remember as you wiggle over the target if you push the pinpoint button again it well detune the coil making it harder to see the trace but if you know what the trace is you can detune it farther and farther to get the exact spot where the good audio is coming from .

When in pinpoint sizing you still have to move the coil to get trace to be displayed the smaller the wiggle the more accurate the id . Sizing also lets you know the shape of the target size and length of target which will let you decide if you want to proceed to check the target out more.

When doing nail test such as _0_ line means nail 0 means coin if done on top of ground in combine open screen you will get low low low if you bury it say 4inches you will get low high low so bury the nails and coins when testing I have a vid showing these but it is only out of dirt in dirt different story can't edit it but be aware of this.

Now my first screen is open except that the 31 to 35 line is disc out second screen open when I check targets I go back to first screen iron is always present in the lower right corner in my soil but with that disc out portion 31 to35 I get some more imfo if I get a rejected diamond it tells me that the iron is a nail or similar size no audio no grunt or high mixed in now bigger iron will be rejected with a diamond to but well high tone and chop very unstable #s and make weird sounds .

Going back to the _0_ if you pass your detector over this with 31 to 35 line disc out you will only hear the high between the nails so that disc will clear a lot of signals that are masked with small iron .On this type of masking and others these are sweep speed sensitive to fast and you will not hear it these high tones you hear between the nails will be short almost a chop but very noticeable dig me signal . I think everybody should do this test to see what swing speed you should deploy .

That depth gauge will give you some more imfo on digging or not if a nail or small piece of iron is with a coin the depth gauge will be more stable say 3 to 4 or 6 to 7 where as a plain nail will read 3 to 6 or 6 to 10 a coin being with the nail or small iron will be much more stable say 3 to 5 or 6 to 8 not quite perfect but gives you a idea that it's not long one way like the nail by itself .

I hope this helps you . sube

Re: hunting in trash
Posted by: mcb613
Date: October 14, 2016 08:44AM
Sube, good efforts with this topic! I would like to ask if the indication of a null is key? I would assume depending on what direction your hitting the target from?
Also, I attempted this approach on Weds snd seemed like 80 percent of mu like scenario targets, all had a build around 12-37. Is there any true indicator, that says" yes" dig this one. Or is it your message that coins can be hidding and may look like this?
Im confused. BTW, has Andy S made comment on any of this? I didnt here it in Bootcsmp.
Thx and looking forward to your comment.

Re: hunting in trash
Posted by: sube
Date: October 14, 2016 08:42PM
No the null is not the key , the null happens in the middle of the nail or other iron regardless if a coin is there or not . I have to ask if you got a build at 12.37 what happened when you turn 90 degrees to the said target . With nails north south hit will always read higher so you got a 12.37 east west and if it was a nail north south should of jumped to 12.45 to 12.48 and gave you a low tone or high tone your thinking dime or quarter but if that curser is bouncing around inside the trace on the screen it's iron .On the east west hit a dime will travel 12.25 to 12,37 east west hit depending on the size of said nail .

If your dimes come in at 12.43 no junk , then a dime with a nail north south hit will read 12.42 to 12.43 with a high tone chirp or good solid high tone with (hardly any movement of the curser ).

So when you turn to north south and it jumps to 12.45 to 12.48 and the curser is stable with high tone dig or any other coin #
Also if that 12.45 to 12.48 is falsing high just look at the (curser it will be moving around kind of a circle in the trace area ).

Going back to the east west hit because your scanning the nail the long way traveling back and forth the length of the nail is why that reading will move from 12.25 to 12.37 curser will have way more movement then north south .

The problem with iron is there is no set size such as coins this will make all targets read different .

Turning 90 degrees to the target is your best clue . sube

Re: hunting in trash
Posted by: mcb613
Date: October 16, 2016 06:51PM
Sube, just rewatched the video for the many many times and came up with a lityle jingle. It goes something lime this..." put the dime in take the dime out, put the dime in and shake the coil all about.... do the diggy diggy and you put the coin out". Thats just the first verse. Anyone can add to the song, but Zim not sure about sharing royalties... HA HA, Gotta have some fun!

Re: hunting in trash
Posted by: Painternz
Date: October 22, 2016 01:51AM
Where do I find your video please

Re: hunting in trash
Posted by: mcb613
Date: October 22, 2016 02:33PM
The first thread.

Re: hunting in trash
Posted by: sube
Date: October 29, 2016 12:59PM
https://youtu.be/OToHLys8Okw Well not the best but hey only took a hour to get out :thumb up: it's hard to see the screen when I trying to explain how to tell nails from coins .

But If you get a bastard nail and a good nail and scan them between ferrous coin combine and 4 tone conduct you will see what I'm talking about .

Another thing I failed to mention pinpointing tight signals if you use normal it will downsize to where you want , now pinpoint sizing will down size manually and give more control of the spot you want to be looking at. To get a good look at that exact spot. :thumbup: sube

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