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Re: Running channel 11
Posted by: brother steve
Date: August 27, 2017 08:08PM
I am still experimenting with this. I was killing clad and silver in the dirt, at 6 so I thought why change it now. When I go to another site I'll check it again. You did arise awareness about this and I thank you.

Re: Running channel 11
Posted by: "Carolina"
Date: August 28, 2017 10:16AM
Hi Brother Steve & IDX,

Well, sube is really the expert here as he has put his machine through many different situations. For me, what I have experienced is, with air tests 6 seems to be the channel I see most and also the sensitivity is always suggested ( green # ) 14. and in auto +3 19 appears so I see. 19 14. This is nearly all the time in the air so I assume these are what I would call default settings from the factory?
Now when I'm in the field ( water and beach exclusively ) auto channel and auto +3 read the following. After I NC, auto channel I have seen as low as 1 and as high as 9 and every # in-between. Auto sensitivity +3 is always 24 or higher with 27 being the norm. So far manual 11 has only shown a marked difference on the caps. Instead of a crackle or broken tone for the majority they all hit hard in 11. Now Steve, if you remember what Andy said about high or low mineralization or iron presence I use the proper target separation mode for low mineral as I am in the sand and the machine tells me with sensitivity at 27 there is low mineral, so all these results are based on that. I would think different modes of target separation may yield different results? What I do know will always improve your finds are the basics. Slow down, grid your area, work east to west and north to south, coil control and don't be afraid to experiment.

Carolina



MINELAB CTX 3030
MINELAB Excalibur II
MINELAB Excalibur 1000
MINELAB Excalibur Gold Sword
VALLON VMH3CS
WHITES Dual Field

Re: Running channel 11
Posted by: sube
Date: August 29, 2017 09:36PM
Carolina caps should hit harder in 11 higher freq for lower conductors what were your #s were they stable or bonce across the 12 line most will read 11.15 to 11.25 . There is a little test you can do at home put your detector in -a sensitivity don't need depth Now choose noise cancel 1 take a nickel and get it to fringe depth your #s well vary a lot now take a dime at fringe depth your #s well vary . Now put it in noise cancel 11 and do the same your #s don't vary much more stable #s . Now auto noise cancel and see what channel the ctx will pick .

Now does this carry to the dirt with the same results sometime sometimes not depends on the soil . Low freq will penetrate soil better than high freq but I have dug deep dimes in both low and high noise cancel channels but for high conductors 11 and 1 hit about the same where as low conductors nickels hit harder in 11 than 1 . Now George Payne says he would pick a freq between 14 and 17 as the best freq.

It's still all a compromise on what is the best freq to get the most targets of all kinds so minelab made muti-freq for the best of both worlds low and high conductors at the same time but I think it's geared to the lower freqs .


Now no one knows what the ctx is running for freqs on the different channels we do know it finds deep silver so it's got to be running lower freqs on the 3 channels if it was running higher freqs it would be good for small gold chains and stuff. A nickels best freq is 14.7hrz and a silver dime is 2.7 hrz but that dime well still respond to the 14.7hrz better than the nickel at 2.7 hrz

So we do have the option of changing the running freqs some what but what they are is anybody guess but 11 is better for nickels in what I have seen . sube



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2017 09:48PM by sube.

Re: Running channel 11
Posted by: glenn3-88
Date: August 30, 2017 10:49AM
I've been missing for a while due to health reasons. Good to go now. Went out yesterday about an hour due to humidity and found a couple of pennies and a nickel.
I am soon ( today or tomorrow) going to hunt the property across from Snow's Island where in the past I have found some old silver coins and a couple of black powder
slugs. As some of you know, Snows Island was "The Swamp Fox's" hideout.

That explanation being said: I have found a lot of lead sinkers near the river and silver coins hitting near the same numbers. In regards to this forum, should I lower
my NC. I just pulled out my detector from yesterday's hunt where I did an automatic noise cancel and it was set on 10. Have not been finding what I know is there.
Again, have a lots of pull tabs, aluminum foil, and other soft metals but still get hits of high pitch coin like sounds. Should I try 5 or lower?

Re: Running channel 11
Posted by: glenn3-88
Date: August 30, 2017 10:52AM
REF THE ABOVE QUESTION

Forgot to add this question also. I almost always run Ferrous Coin. Should I change that and to what if so

Re: Running channel 11
Posted by: IDXMonster
Date: August 30, 2017 12:19PM
Change it to anything BUT FeCo to avoid that. I just went through that deal.

Re: Running channel 11
Posted by: "Carolina"
Date: August 30, 2017 01:02PM
High mineralization, low mineralization, iron presence or extreme trash should dictate the mode chosen. There is a time and place for all.

Carolina



MINELAB CTX 3030
MINELAB Excalibur II
MINELAB Excalibur 1000
MINELAB Excalibur Gold Sword
VALLON VMH3CS
WHITES Dual Field

Re: Running channel 11
Posted by: "Carolina"
Date: August 30, 2017 02:08PM
Sube:
This is one mysterious machine for me! In the mode I run in at the beach, the caps in channel 11 would mostly stay on the 12 line and occasional 11 but conductivity would read from 12 to 17 with most at 17. Also target trace would paint a tight circle but in pin point always I mean always the caps would smear the screen and left no doubt it was a cap. The nickels paint a tight circle 12:14 in PP.
I set my machine up with sensitivity at 1 and ran your test with gold since that is my passion. Channel 1, 3 & 7 were the least stable at the fringe of detection ( which by way was 2" according to my screen ) 8 & 11 were the most stable and the fringe was now 3". Now without any change of the machine or search head, lights or power in my house, auto channel would give a stable reading at the 2" fringe. The odd thing was, with sensitivity at 1 to help cut out EMI & RFI auto channel selection back to back to back would read 2, 6 or 9 over and over again with no change of surroundings except what ever is going on in the air. What's your take on that other than atmospheric conditions?
On the topic of frequencies verses channels 1,2,3,4 etc. correlating one to the other is only a guess. 1 being the lowest and 11 being the highest. I have a pulse induction machine with 4 channels with 10 frequencies in each channel for a total of 40 frequencies. Eric Foster connected a oscilloscope to the coil wires at the search head and measured each channel and found that there was no correlation from 1 to 40 on the frequencies. The only real correlation was between the frequency chosen and the power it took to run that frequency which directly related to battery life. #1 was not necessarily the lowest and #40 the highest frequencies.
There must be a way to determine the best three frequencies chosen at any given time and what frequencies they are. I am not the one to figure this out, but someone out there should be able to. Thanks for all your input as it puts the mind to working.
Now on the subject of George Payne. How could anyone disagree with anything that he says? His word is pretty much gold! I have always read that a nickel resonates the highest at 19.

Carolina
Carolina



MINELAB CTX 3030
MINELAB Excalibur II
MINELAB Excalibur 1000
MINELAB Excalibur Gold Sword
VALLON VMH3CS
WHITES Dual Field

Re: Running channel 11
Posted by: sube
Date: August 30, 2017 10:26PM
This is one mysterious machine for me! Quote Carolina

You and me to. I often wonder what would happen if 12 guys went metal detecting and they all had ctxs 10 guys show up they all noise cancel would they use up 10 channels then I get there late and noise cancel would I get the last channel . Then the last guy shows up slept in late he noise cancels is the detector going to say go home no more channels lol . I will bet some will be running the same channel . As to your ? mine will display those same #s hum.

Now as to where I noise cancel on the ground or in the air I do it in the air most emi is in the air except buried power lines and you know when you get by one da da da da . Now noise canceling on the ground why you move 3 feet and it's not the same different ground more rust more trash you can't hear all kinds of stuff what's the point . So plant a nickel and a dime at 7 inches where you hunt and see what channel is the most stable I think you will see a difference between what you see and what the machine picks .

As to your 19 14 start up in auto sensitivity that is what it does as you start to detect the machine monitors the ground and 1 or 2 minutes later bang 24 21 or 16 13 it has to have some time to come up with those sensitivity #s wonder what would happen if you just let it sit would the #s change I don't think so it has to sample ground to come up with those #s. sube



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2017 10:39PM by sube.

Re: Running channel 11
Posted by: "Carolina"
Date: September 01, 2017 12:46PM
Hi Sube:
Well I can't seem to find the time to experiment at the beach. When I get there, I'm off and running.Lol. I will make some time this week just for that.
Question. In auto sensitivity, as the ground changes so does the sensitivity, as the numbers indicate. Now, in auto noise cancel, after the initial NC and you return to the detect screen. Does the NC track the ground and change accordingly?
Tied to this and your thoughts on NC in the air verses the ground-------- Andy's bootcamp teaches you to NC on the ground where you position the coil to search, not in the air. Also he teaches, to watch the sensitivity #'s and when you see them move, NC again. His statement, NC often so as not to loose depth.
Today I dug a tremendous amount of nickels and only a few dimes running manual 11. 11 does seem to hit harder on nickels. The broken signals although the conductive number was locked on 14 were 17" deep. That is in low mineral damp sand 28 auto sensitivity. This is good depth where I hunt. My scoop handle has three marks six inches each. When I'm curious I just flip the scoop and in goes the handle. Some people say two scoops, three scoops five scoops deep but this tells me nothing.
So today I pulled a 14k heavy ear ring, 25mm Dia. X 8mm wide x 3mm thick. 4 grams, very nice. No rings or neckless. I did recover 24 nickels which is double what I normally find. Was it because I ran manual 11 or I just got in the nickel zone, I have no idea. I do know I will continue manual 11 my next time out. Am curious of your thoughts on the NC question. I do know with my coil on the ground, if someone running the right frequency or large coil nearby, it still effects my machine. I also have checked in auto NC my channel just mins. apart and have seen two different channels so maybe auto NC changes with the ground?

Carolina



MINELAB CTX 3030
MINELAB Excalibur II
MINELAB Excalibur 1000
MINELAB Excalibur Gold Sword
VALLON VMH3CS
WHITES Dual Field

Re: Running channel 11
Posted by: trojdor
Date: September 01, 2017 06:53PM
Quote
"Carolina"

Question. In auto sensitivity, as the ground changes so does the sensitivity, as the numbers indicate. Now, in auto noise cancel, after the initial NC and you return to the detect screen. Does the NC track the ground and change accordingly?
Tied to this and your thoughts on NC in the air verses the ground-------- Andy's bootcamp teaches you to NC on the ground where you position the coil to search, not in the air. Also he teaches, to watch the sensitivity #'s and when you see them move, NC again. His statement, NC often so as not to loose depth.
I also have checked in auto NC my channel just mins. apart and have seen two different channels so maybe auto NC changes with the ground?
Carolina

Carolina,
NC doesn't track anything...it's a fixed number and doesn't change until you do another NC. Even though it says 'auto', it just means it automatically scans the spectrum that one time and chooses what it thinks is the best/clearest channel...but it's only a snapshop of that exact moment.
Because EMI is so prevalent, and can vary in just a few feet, that's probably why Andy told you to NC like the old joke about voting, "Vote (or NC) early, and vote (or NC) often." :)

You would be amazed and horrified how much EMI just one cell phone puts out...and it can change frequencies a hundred of times a minute if needed.
They are always two way radios...even when not being used to talk!

BTW, I also NC like Andy, but with a slight variation....I NC with the coil slightly raised off the ground at about the same height I sweep the coil.
My theory is that anything I adjust on the detector is meant to improve things for me under actual hunting conditions...and I don't hunt with my coil 3 feet in the air, nor pressed hard against the ground.

Good luck,
:)
mike

Re: Running channel 11
Posted by: "Carolina"
Date: September 02, 2017 08:02AM
Mike:
Thank you for your input and I am curious where you received your information on the NC " real time snapshot ". Being an electrical contractor with a degree I am fairly well versed on EMI & RFI. Not so much on the CTX as I have only 3 years with this machine and still am finding new information. That is why I am curious about your take on NC. As for NC in the air or on the ground there are valid points for both I think. EMI for me becomes a problem only when my threshold is erratic or unstable at my max. sensitivity, which is usually very high (27). In checking manual channels 1-11 I have not yet experienced stability problems from the ground or air where I detect. Only from other detectors in my vicinity have I had EMI issues. I do hope Sube weighs in on these issues as he as much as any is well versed on this machine and I consider his input valuable for me. Thanks again and let me know your reference please on the NC. I will check Minelabs manual which I believe is where this info is. More on this later.

Carolina



MINELAB CTX 3030
MINELAB Excalibur II
MINELAB Excalibur 1000
MINELAB Excalibur Gold Sword
VALLON VMH3CS
WHITES Dual Field

Re: Running channel 11
Posted by: sube
Date: September 02, 2017 08:43PM
Quote
trojdor
Quote
"Carolina"

Question. In auto sensitivity, as the ground changes so does the sensitivity, as the numbers indicate. Now, in auto noise cancel, after the initial NC and you return to the detect screen. Does the NC track the ground and change accordingly?
Tied to this and your thoughts on NC in the air verses the ground-------- Andy's bootcamp teaches you to NC on the ground where you position the coil to search, not in the air. Also he teaches, to watch the sensitivity #'s and when you see them move, NC again. His statement, NC often so as not to loose depth.
I also have checked in auto NC my channel just mins. apart and have seen two different channels so maybe auto NC changes with the ground?
Carolina

Carolina,
NC doesn't track anything...it's a fixed number and doesn't change until you do another NC. Even though it says 'auto', it just means it automatically scans the spectrum that one time and chooses what it thinks is the best/clearest channel...but it's only a snapshop of that exact moment.
Because EMI is so prevalent, and can vary in just a few feet, that's probably why Andy told you to NC like the old joke about voting, "Vote (or NC) early, and vote (or NC) often." :)

You would be amazed and horrified how much EMI just one cell phone puts out...and it can change frequencies a hundred of times a minute if needed.
They are always two way radios...even when not being used to talk!

BTW, I also NC like Andy, but with a slight variation....I NC with the coil slightly raised off the ground at about the same height I sweep the coil.
My theory is that anything I adjust on the detector is meant to improve things for me under actual hunting conditions...and I don't hunt with my coil 3 feet in the air, nor pressed hard against the ground.

Good luck,
:)
mike

You are correct it dose not track it's a fixed number you set or the machine picks .

As to noise cancel I noise cancel a foot above the ground reason being can't find a metal free area where I hunt . Now as to noise canceling on the ground with coil not moving this gets the same noise channel I get when a foot above . Now it says to noise cancel on metal free ground I will ask where well I find that , rust flakes tiny pieces of foil small gold chains and other things you can't hear the reason you don't hear them is the detector dose not have a all metal mode it is using a salt discriminating filter all the time therefor it's discriminating these noises out .True all metal mode would see these targets .

If I hold the coil a foot above the ground and noise cancel I am not picking up any metal in the ground higher if 17 inch coil is used now any emi that's coming from the ground I am sure being a foot away it well hear it and any emi in the air well be sensed by the top of the coil . Mike you know how little movement it takes to get a target to come in having your coil just off the ground I am sure you can't hold it steady for 30 seconds if the coil moves ground noise or unheard metal well make noise which should change your noise cancel channel from having the coil fixed and not moving on the ground .

I have tested it with a nickel and a bottle cap under the coil while noise canceling it seems to pick channel 1 all the time and when I noise cancel the detector it picks 9 with no metal under it .So metal dose effect what channel is picked and it won't be the right one . As to picking your own channel I use a planted nickel and dime where I hunt even with the plants if I get far enough away I am
sure it's not running the channel the detector would pick. So as long as I don't get da da da da and the detector is running reasonable quite i'm good to go .Now there is lighting happening a 1000 miles away which well effect how much noise your detector well make but there's nothing you can do about it . The only emi I care about is the da da da da from close emi which tells me I need to change my noise channel .

One other point if minelabs book is wrong on noise cancel why didn't they address it and state on there website , I think it's because it really doesn't matter where you noise cancel as long as your not on metal . sube

Re: Running channel 11
Posted by: "Carolina"
Date: September 03, 2017 08:19AM
Hi Sube:
Well I'm pretty much going to sit back and watch and read you guys comments and learn. I do agree after testing the auto noise cancel is a fixed number. I think my circumstances are much different from yours as I primarily hunt damp sand and water where ground conditions are much different. I do however think I can improve my skills by employing some of your knowledge and techniques. I am curious about your use of GB and what your take is on this option? I would also like to touch base again on the NC. I know Safari and eTrack are FBS detectors and the CTX is FBS2. I believe the Safari and eTrack say to NC with the coil resting on the ground where the CTX instructs your method, off the ground. Is it because of the difference between FBS & FBS2 ? Or did Minelab decide they had it wrong at first or does it really make a hill of beans? I do believe I will continue to run manual 11 for my low conductors and auto sensitivity +3 as this consistently produces nickels in the 15" range or shallower. Thanks for all your input and look forward to your thoughts on the GB.

Carolina



MINELAB CTX 3030
MINELAB Excalibur II
MINELAB Excalibur 1000
MINELAB Excalibur Gold Sword
VALLON VMH3CS
WHITES Dual Field

Re: Running channel 11
Posted by: brother steve
Date: September 03, 2017 11:49AM
Great words of Wisdom Master Yoda!

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