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Re: Which conditions favor a ctx vs an equinox?
Posted by: Southwind
Date: March 06, 2018 05:03PM
Personally, I'd love to see far more target ID segments on the Equinox.

For us Cherry Pickers give me 1500 over 50 any day, LOL.

Don't get me wrong, I still love my Equinox target ID.



The real treasure is in the hunt...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2018 05:04PM by Southwind.

Re: Which conditions favor a CT vs an equinox?
Posted by: eriks
Date: March 06, 2018 07:58PM
Package en route and should be here Friday, barring any major storm impact on the delivery-another Nor'easter is hitting upper east coat.

Good info on the frequency change to check conductive trash. I had a feeling there would need to be some cross referencing on another program to check targets as is similar with the dues, but no CY coordinates.

Re: Which conditions favor a ctx vs an equinox?
Posted by: dbado1
Date: March 06, 2018 08:36PM
Rick,
Steel bottle caps coming in that high for you? Weird. That is really high compared to what I've been seeing...usually 10-12 in Park 2 or Field 2. Have a fun and safe trip!

I had a weird thing happen today in an old park in Prescott. I was hunting in Park 2, 50 tones and hit a beautiful, stop you in your tracks, high tone that came in 29-30 solid. I KNEW that it was going to be a silver coin. Nice tight signal. It turned out to be a copper memorial at about 4". I was shocked! They usually come in around 25. I rechecked the hole...nada. All I can figure is that there was some iron in there with it that was influencing the signal. A copper penny was the last thing I would have guessed from the tone and #s.

Dean

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Re: Which conditions favor a ctx vs an equinox?
Posted by: Cutaplug
Date: March 06, 2018 09:30PM
Have owned an etrac and CTX with several thousand hours on them and got an Equinox 800 last week. People have mentioned some of these but here are my thoughts:

The ETrac/CTX will give you more target info with the CO and FE numbers so cherry picking is much easier. I feel it also has a much more stable and accurate target ID, especially when targets are very deep. If you have loose soil where coins go very deep there and you want to be able to cherry pick in low-medium trash sites I'd say go with E-Trac/CTX but only if this is your #1 Goal.

EQ 800 recovery speed is SOOO much faster than etrac/ctx so in trashy places it blows etrac/ctx away. That is just my experience with the stock coil I can't even imagine the possibilities with a sniper coil at high recovery speed.

EQ 800 is far superior for beach hunting than the etrac/ctx if you're looking for gold targets. It will get better depth and also find smaller targets like gold chains, earrings, and toe rings that the etrac/ctx will miss. I did some initial air testing and got a repeatable signal at TWENTY ONE INCHES on a medium sized gold nugget ring :surprised: I'm not kidding here. I tested the etrac at 27 sensitivity in all metal mode and got... wait for it... 15 inches.

Did I mention EQ 800 has gold mode for prospecting? Doesn't exist on etrac/ctx. While air testing I got the maximum depths for coins and gold in gold mode because of the true threshold, and high sensitivity. I haven't meddled with it yet but gold mode may be able to get some extreme depths on coins and I'm suspecting that advanced users will eventually figure out how to make that happen.

The EQ 800 is way lighter than the other two machines.

The EQ 800 Costs less than the other two machines.

To answer your question:

I'm guessing the conditions where the ctx would be favorable, are locations where better target identification is necessary.
--- Yes, but we're talking about cherry picking silver dimes from clad dimes here. For general detecting you will be able to dig the coins signals most of the time on the eq 800. For beach detecting you will be digging a very wide variety of targets and the target ID doesn't matter much, especially if you're seeking gold only.


What real world locations would have those conditions for success?
--- Loose soil, deep coins or when you have enough hours on the machine to be able to determine clad from silver if you want to do that.

Would that be a park location with old silver covered by decades of soil and modern non-ferrous trash?
--- No. Both CTX and etrac have slow recovery speed so high trash areas are not their strong point. EQ 800 will run circles around them in high trash areas.

Could you disc/notch out that top layer of trash at 1-3" and just hear the deeper target tones?
--- Not really. It's pretty much impossible to get deep targets at a place that has a top layer littered with trash. Your best bet is to have a high recovery speed and get in between the bad signals to sniff out the good ones and find good targets close to bad ones.

Also, assuming the ctx has a bit more depth, especially with the larger coil, at the beach where targets might be sanded in a bit, you would prefer a ctx?
--- Nope. Assuming you're going to the beach for gold then EQ 800 will be far superior, even at depth.

Not trying to be an advocate of the EQ 800 already but from what you're describing the EQ 800 might actually be better for what you're trying to do so lightweight and cheaper are just a bonus. If you came to me and said Cutaplug I want to find super deep coins in low trash areas and not dig very much trash then I'd say CTX. GL with your decision =)

Re: Which conditions favor a ctx vs an equinox?
Posted by: eriks
Date: March 07, 2018 08:41AM
Thanks for taking the time to hit those questions, I would say I had some notions about the Ctx's disc applications, rather than evidence.

Equinox should work out great as I need to modify/repair my excal and sov gt.

Now I can hit parks and older settlement areas without missing so much information.

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Re: Which conditions favor a ctx vs an equinox?
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: March 07, 2018 12:54PM
Quote
dbado1
I have an E-TRAC and an Equinox. My observations, thus far, are like what has already been said. The E-TRAC will be relegated to low/mod trashy park type environs because of its superior ID abilities. The Equinox will do everything else. The E-TRAC, even with a small coil, doesn't hold a candle to the Equinox in the separation/unmasking department even with the Equinox wearing the larger 11" coil. I think we all knew this was going to be the case from the beginning, though, as FBS is not very fast. Now I have a couple of small coils for the E-TRAC that may never get used again.

Dean

Dean --

I couldn't agree with you more. I swung the Explorer SE Pro for 7 years, and now a CTX -- and the EQ 800. I couldn't agree more with your assessment. While the Equinox IS a DEEP machine, I still think (at this early stage) that FBS/FBS2 will be superior for the deepest of silver coins in low to moderate trash areas. Maybe not totally due to depth capability, but also due to FBS's significant ability to ID deep coins. FBS is simply a "deep silver magnet," and nothing has changed in that regard. HOWEVER, in trash? Totally agree with you Dean. For me, it seems clear that my question (when owning only an FBS machine) is changing...what used to be "gee, how trashy is this spot; do I need a small coil on my FBS machine today," is now becoming "gee, how trashy is this spot; do I need to swing the Equinox today..." Any "small coil" decision I might have made in the past, now seems very clearly to be an "Equinox" decision. I can only imagine what this machine will do when the 6" coil arrives... :surprised: :surrender:

Said another way, the Equinox may have "obsoleted" my CTX 6" coil... :lmfao:

Steve



Minelab CTX 3030
Minelab Equinox 800
Garrett ProPointer AT
Lesche hand digger
Lesche 38D Ground Shark "King of Spades"

Norman, OK

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Re: Which conditions favor a ctx vs an equinox?
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: March 07, 2018 01:03PM
Quote
lytle78
Got my 800 today. No shaft wobble - solid

Loves rusty steel crown caps at about 25-30, but TNSS tip of going to 5kHz does indeed make the VDI jump up to the 30’s - coins don’t do that.

I live in emi hell - all underground electrical utilities with ground mounted transformers. The EQ hates it and in factory reset settings goes nuts. A quick look in the manual and an auto imi cancel - bliss!

Not as deep as my former F75 - I have a T2+ coming on Friday - cage match.

I am off with wife and cat in a lovely new Lance 1575 travel trailer for 5 months up the whole east coast. Lots of play on the beaches. EQ and my ancient CZ6.

Wow, Rick. I'm confused, as Dean is, on where your rusty steel caps are reading... :confused: :confused:

Something seems wrong, to me. Please forgive my dumb question, as I already know you are too good for this, but -- are you SURE you didn't bump it by accident into 5 kHz mode (out of Multi) when you were getting those 25-30 readings?

The reason I ask is (running mostly in Park 1 mode), I have dug EVERY SINGLE 25-30 reading on every hunt with the EQ so far, and NEVER dug a rusty cap. I have also dug many, many upper teens targets as well, and LOTS of the "13" IDs that I have come across. Never a rusty cap there, either. The ONLY day I dug rusty caps -- two of them (and I can confirm that this park has PLENTY of them) -- was when I was trying to nab a gold ring on a "sports field" part of the park, and thus digging some sub-nickel IDs. BOTH of them rang at 11/12 in Multi-IQ mode, and when I switched to 5 kHz, both ID'd like a clad/silver coin -- in the upper 20s, just as you noted in your post. Are you POSITIVE that your 25-30 readings on those rusty caps did not come with the machine accidentally in 5 kHz mode, and when you thought you bumped it up to "5 kHz" to "check," you actually went not from multi to 5, but 5 to 10 kHz?

IF indeed your machine is "loving" rusty screw caps in the high 20s area, and if indeed that's in Multi-IQ mode, I'd really think there might be something wrong with your unit. Smashed flat ALUMINUM screw caps, low to occasionally mid 20s for me. But rusty steel ones? This really doesn't sound right...I'm thinking possible machine problem, based on what I have experienced and others confirming it...but maybe I'm over-reacting...

Steve



Minelab CTX 3030
Minelab Equinox 800
Garrett ProPointer AT
Lesche hand digger
Lesche 38D Ground Shark "King of Spades"

Norman, OK



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2018 01:11PM by sgoss66.

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Re: Which conditions favor a ctx vs an equinox?
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: March 07, 2018 01:17PM
Quote
Cutaplug
Have owned an etrac and CTX with several thousand hours on them and got an Equinox 800 last week. People have mentioned some of these but here are my thoughts:

The ETrac/CTX will give you more target info with the CO and FE numbers so cherry picking is much easier. I feel it also has a much more stable and accurate target ID, especially when targets are very deep. If you have loose soil where coins go very deep there and you want to be able to cherry pick in low-medium trash sites I'd say go with E-Trac/CTX but only if this is your #1 Goal.

EQ 800 recovery speed is SOOO much faster than etrac/ctx so in trashy places it blows etrac/ctx away. That is just my experience with the stock coil I can't even imagine the possibilities with a sniper coil at high recovery speed.

EQ 800 is far superior for beach hunting than the etrac/ctx if you're looking for gold targets. It will get better depth and also find smaller targets like gold chains, earrings, and toe rings that the etrac/ctx will miss. I did some initial air testing and got a repeatable signal at TWENTY ONE INCHES on a medium sized gold nugget ring :surprised: I'm not kidding here. I tested the etrac at 27 sensitivity in all metal mode and got... wait for it... 15 inches.

Did I mention EQ 800 has gold mode for prospecting? Doesn't exist on etrac/ctx. While air testing I got the maximum depths for coins and gold in gold mode because of the true threshold, and high sensitivity. I haven't meddled with it yet but gold mode may be able to get some extreme depths on coins and I'm suspecting that advanced users will eventually figure out how to make that happen.

The EQ 800 is way lighter than the other two machines.

The EQ 800 Costs less than the other two machines.

To answer your question:

I'm guessing the conditions where the ctx would be favorable, are locations where better target identification is necessary.
--- Yes, but we're talking about cherry picking silver dimes from clad dimes here. For general detecting you will be able to dig the coins signals most of the time on the eq 800. For beach detecting you will be digging a very wide variety of targets and the target ID doesn't matter much, especially if you're seeking gold only.


What real world locations would have those conditions for success?
--- Loose soil, deep coins or when you have enough hours on the machine to be able to determine clad from silver if you want to do that.

Would that be a park location with old silver covered by decades of soil and modern non-ferrous trash?
--- No. Both CTX and etrac have slow recovery speed so high trash areas are not their strong point. EQ 800 will run circles around them in high trash areas.

Could you disc/notch out that top layer of trash at 1-3" and just hear the deeper target tones?
--- Not really. It's pretty much impossible to get deep targets at a place that has a top layer littered with trash. Your best bet is to have a high recovery speed and get in between the bad signals to sniff out the good ones and find good targets close to bad ones.

Also, assuming the ctx has a bit more depth, especially with the larger coil, at the beach where targets might be sanded in a bit, you would prefer a ctx?
--- Nope. Assuming you're going to the beach for gold then EQ 800 will be far superior, even at depth.

Not trying to be an advocate of the EQ 800 already but from what you're describing the EQ 800 might actually be better for what you're trying to do so lightweight and cheaper are just a bonus. If you came to me and said Cutaplug I want to find super deep coins in low trash areas and not dig very much trash then I'd say CTX. GL with your decision =)

Excellent assessment, Cutaplug. After years of experience with FBS, I have to say I concur with you. Since a lot of how I hunt IS for the deepest of silver coins in dirt, the CTX (i.e. FBS) will ALWAYS have a very important place in my "arsenal." BUT -- so will the Equinox, I can already tell.

One question, when you said you hit the gold ring in an air test at 21 inches (and the CTX only 15"), I am curious as to whether that was in one of the beach modes, or some other mode?

Steve



Minelab CTX 3030
Minelab Equinox 800
Garrett ProPointer AT
Lesche hand digger
Lesche 38D Ground Shark "King of Spades"

Norman, OK

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Re: Which conditions favor a ctx vs an equinox?
Posted by: Cutaplug
Date: March 07, 2018 11:21PM
Quote
sgoss66


Excellent assessment, Cutaplug. After years of experience with FBS, I have to say I concur with you. Since a lot of how I hunt IS for the deepest of silver coins in dirt, the CTX (i.e. FBS) will ALWAYS have a very important place in my "arsenal." BUT -- so will the Equinox, I can already tell.

One question, when you said you hit the gold ring in an air test at 21 inches (and the CTX only 15"), I am curious as to whether that was in one of the beach modes, or some other mode?

Steve

That's how I feel about my E-trac it will always have a special place in my heart lol. I tested the 800 vs the Etrac (not CTX) on the gold ring. I basically stripped all the default settings for all modes and put them as all the same for purpose of air tests. So the only difference between these modes is happening behind the scenes with the underlying minelab algorithms. Here are the exact numbers and settings:

Ground balance: 0
Tones: 50
Recovery speed: 1
Iron Bias: 0
Sensitivity: 22 on all modes except gold modes.
Sensitivity: 18 on gold modes.

22 sens on gold modes was creating a very wavery signal that would make it hard to distinguish a repeatable target.

Medium sized gold ring depth in inches.

Park 1: 19
Park 2: 20
Field 1: 18
Field 2: 20
Beach 1: 19
Beach 2: 18
Gold 1: 21
Gold 2: 21

The gold mode was producing faint but very repeatable signals at extreme depth. To make sure this wasn't just a placebo effect from me swiping the coin over the coil I turned on a video camera and recorded myself sweeping the gold ring over the coil and covered the camera so I could only hear audio. I could clearly hear the repeatable signal without seeing anything.

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Re: Which conditions favor a ctx vs an equinox?
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: March 07, 2018 11:35PM
Very good testing, Cutaplug. I like how you held all variables (that you could control) constant, and let the variables you couldn't (the internal programming/frequency combinations for each mode) be the only ones "changing" as you switched modes.

Very interesting.

Good stuff!

Steve



Minelab CTX 3030
Minelab Equinox 800
Garrett ProPointer AT
Lesche hand digger
Lesche 38D Ground Shark "King of Spades"

Norman, OK

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