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War nickle VDI's
Posted by: Dan(NM)
Date: March 08, 2018 09:20PM
I've been hunting an old baseball field for the last couple of days, cherry picking though an unbelievable amount of trash targets. I scored silver 2 days in a row, using a fast recovery speed and basically 2 tones. I decided today to open up the nickle range to see if I could score some nickles, especially war nickles. Withing 45 minutes I had 5 nickles in my pouch, nothing old or deep, but a solid 13 VDI. I decided to go back tomorrow and see if I could pick out some silver nickles among the garbage. So, tonight I pulled out 15 or so war nickles to see what VDI I could expect, well...They read from 13 all the way to 24?? I did the test twice and the numbers differed from nickle to nickle, that just shot my narrow nickle range all to hell.
Maybe someone else could pull out some war nickles and see what you come up with.

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Re: War nickle VDI's
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: March 08, 2018 10:36PM
Dan(NM)...

I have a very close friend/detecting buddy, who was hunting a site a few weeks ago with his CTX. He was digging ONLY the deepest of targets (minimum 8" deep, as all the oldies at this site are 8" plus). He hit a target on the CTX that was reading 12-40 to 12-41. He figured "wheat cent," but due to the depth, he will occasional dig dimes at 12-39 to 12-40 to 12-41 at that site. So, he dug it, thinking wheat but hoping silver dime. And out popped....

...A WAR NICKEL!

SO, I told him -- NO WAY. There HAD to be something else in the hole, skewing that ID number...or else it was the fact that at just over 12" deep, the machine was unable to give accurate ID and it "up-averaged" it. He told me that he has seen them ID anywhere from 12-8 to 12-43. I thought "yeah, maybe in the ground, in strange situations/orientations or whatever..."

Since I was still skeptical (to say the least), he fetched it, and air tested it for me. And??????

...

...

12-42 to 12-45!!!

I am totally without any explanation for this!

Moral of the story? Your 24 war nickel is roughly equivalent to his 12-43 war nickel (both "penny" IDs on the respective machines).

NO IDEA...

My BEST guess? The U.S. Mint minted a batch of them on 90% silver planchets somehow...either by accident, or maybe -- for a very short (and undocumented) time, on purpose (due to war demands on other metals...)

And so maybe you two dug a couple of examples of these mythical, "undocumented," 90% silver nickels You may have something there that is worth a pretty penny...seriously...

It's the only "logical" explanation I can think of. I believe these machines' ID accuracy so much, that an alternate explanation HAS to be considered, IMO...

Steve



Minelab CTX 3030
Minelab Equinox 800
Garrett ProPointer AT
Lesche hand digger
Lesche 38D Ground Shark "King of Spades"

Norman, OK



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2018 10:43PM by sgoss66.

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Re: War nickle VDI's
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: March 08, 2018 10:56PM
While I'm at it, I'll toss out one other very speculative, but possible explanation, instead of 90% silver planchets.

According to the U.S. Mint, war nickels were minted from 35% silver, 9% manganese, and 56% copper. SO, the REAL question -- and it's one I've asked myself MANY times, is WHY should a war nickel read AT ALL like a regular nickel? If you took out the 9% manganese, and made them 44% silver and 56% copper, or 35% silver and 65% copper, whatever, you'd expect a very high-conductive coin. So, it MUST be the manganese mixed in, right? A supporting piece of evidence is that manganese is a poor conductor -- SO, it stands to reason that mixing in some manganese to an otherwise high-conductive mix, that you could end up with something that conducts "roughly the same" as nickel, right?

WELL, if I am right, and it's the poorly-conductive manganese that brings the target ID of a war nickel down, into "regular nickel" range, THEN...perhaps some batches of war nickels were made WITHOUT the manganese? Perhaps they are just silver/copper mixes -- and thus the crazy, "high-conductive" ID values?

This is actually, probably, the more likely (as opposed to 90% silver planchets). I could certainly see 35% silver, 65% copper "nickel-sized" coins giving that 24 Equinox/12-43 CTX ID value...

Steve



Minelab CTX 3030
Minelab Equinox 800
Garrett ProPointer AT
Lesche hand digger
Lesche 38D Ground Shark "King of Spades"

Norman, OK

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Re: War nickle VDI's
Posted by: Rick(ND)
Date: March 09, 2018 12:03AM
Seen this several times on war nickles, but not around here in ND. I question this too and had the guy send me the nickle to try on my Sovereign with the 180 meter and it read like a zinc penny and posted this on another forum and believe it was Monte that responded and said in some parts of the country and some ground the nickle will lech out the magnateese from the nickle and it will read higher than normal.On my Sovereign when I was using it I could tell the war nickles and could call them in 80% of the time as they sounded like nickles on the Sovereign and with the 180 would read slightly higher and had the smooth sound than round pulltabs with the same numbers.

Rick



Sovereign GT since 1996
the Minelab Equinox 800 since March 2018
Timberwolfs HP for the Sovereign
Uni Probe For The other detectors
Got the detectors, just need time to use them all

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You have the idea what is going onN/T
Posted by: Rick(ND)
Date: March 09, 2018 12:05AM

(This message does not contain any text.)


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Manganese in silver war nickel changes conductivity when buried over a long period
Posted by: Old California
Date: March 09, 2018 02:11AM
Hello Dan,

Good question, as it's been brought up a few times over the years. Silver wartime nickel is the only coin minted with manganese used as an alloy, an unburied silver nickel will ID the same today as it would have back then.

My theory back in late nineties, was manganese in a silver nickel changed over a period of time when buried. Something changes, may it be weather, rain, or some type of magnetic or odd force in the ground manganese is affected. Conductivity changes, which is why we see fresh dug silver nickels ID all over the screen.

That was my theory back then, and still today feel strongly the elements of mother nature and time effect the small percentage of buried manganese in the silver nickel.

One of those detector mysteries, wish we had more to keep our mind's constantly thinking.

Take care,
Paul



AKA..Paul (Ca)

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2018 02:13AM by Old California.

Re: War nickle VDI's
Posted by: jas415
Date: March 09, 2018 08:13AM
I have dug 3, in the last 3 weeks with the Eq800 and all three came in solid at 13, but on several occasions over the last 5 years I have dug war nickles with the CTX that actually had two targets on the screen, every time at 13 and 30-31, but usually at 13. The Houston area soil is not all that mineralized but does have a lot of rusty nails, etc.. I have been trying to do some sort of cross/checking by using different freqs on the 800 that will allow me to make a better decision as to nickel or rectangular pop top/pull tab which comes in on my 800 at 13. I thought for a few nickles and pull tabs I had it figured out by switching to 5 and 10 kz as they both seemed to jump more on non-nickles, but I still have some doubt. It is a learning process.

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Re: War nickle VDI's
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: March 09, 2018 10:37AM
Paul --

Logical, what you are saying. My question is, if you dig 10 war nickels at a site, and 9 of them read "like nickels," but then ONE of them reads like a penny, it's hard to say that environment is the reason. IF they read "all over the place," with "no rhyme or reason," then I'd tend to agree with you. But the way it SEEMS, based on what I've seen myself, and what I've seen reported, is MOST of them are very close to "nickel ID," but then there's this rare, small few of them that read WAY higher, up into penny-ish ranges.

That's why I wonder if its a case where some few number of them were minted WITHOUT the manganese...just copper and silver...

It would be interesting to see if the ones that do read high, are all of the same year (suggesting the possibility that they came from one "batch" of coins...)

Steve



Minelab CTX 3030
Minelab Equinox 800
Garrett ProPointer AT
Lesche hand digger
Lesche 38D Ground Shark "King of Spades"

Norman, OK

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Back in the late 90s early 2000
Posted by: Rick(ND)
Date: March 09, 2018 11:10AM
Those that did find them to read higher were different years and different mint and seen more of them found in certain area than others. Like I say up here in ND I dont remember any found in ND, but one guy detecting in southern MN found a couple that read like a zinc penny one weekend last year.
I think Paul is right on on why some read higher than others, Paul and myself has seen many odd things over the years with detecting.

Rick

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Re: War nickle VDI's
Posted by: dewcon4414
Date: March 09, 2018 03:17PM
Its always possible some sheets were rolled differently before punching.

Dew



CTX, Blue Xcals
Whatever you do in life, surround yourself with smart people who'll argue with you.... John Wooden.
D. Meeker



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2018 03:24PM by dewcon4414.

Re: War nickle VDI's
Posted by: tometusns
Date: March 09, 2018 05:29PM
Quote
dewcon4414
Its always possible some sheets were rolled differently before punching.

Dew
I tend to think either human error in the combining process of the different metals or like Steve suggested they didn't put any manganese in.... maybe late in a shift they were running low and the supervisor said we'll just add a little more copper or silver to the mix nobody will know anyway??? Things just happen when the human equation is factored in... lol

Re: War nickle VDI's
Posted by: jas415
Date: March 09, 2018 07:17PM
War nickels and different numbers. Got this one today, typical of what they look like around here, black crusty and difficult to clean. This one was about 6" deep in black 'gumbo' soil on a 1923 house site. Rang up 19-21 on the 800. It is still cooking on the electrolysis but the crud is coming off slowly. We also use the "Byron Beat Down' method to get the crud off. Put the nickel between two softwood boards, like pine, then hit the board with a hammer. It will break off the crud. I did it one time with oak boards and the nickle broke in half.




Re: War nickle VDI's
Posted by: laplander
Date: March 09, 2018 07:38PM
The last war nickel I dug with the Equinox read 18 19 in the ground dropped to 17 with the air test. all the other nickels Buffalo, Vee, and Shield have read 14 15 for me.
Except for a counterfeit shield that mid toned, so we might be dealing with a counterfeit ring. How is that for a conspiracy theory :pinnochio
Laplander

Re: War nickle VDI's
Posted by: Dan(NM)
Date: March 09, 2018 07:56PM
Quote
jas415
War nickels and different numbers. Got this one today, typical of what they look like around here, black crusty and difficult to clean. This one was about 6" deep in black 'gumbo' soil on a 1923 house site. Rang up 19-21 on the 800. It is still cooking on the electrolysis but the crud is coming off slowly. We also use the "Byron Beat Down' method to get the crud off. Put the nickel between two softwood boards, like pine, then hit the board with a hammer. It will break off the crud. I did it one time with oak boards and the nickle broke in half.


That's how a few of mine look here in NM. They rung high on the Etrac, could be the water or fertilizer.

Re: War nickle VDI's
Posted by: fields12
Date: March 10, 2018 07:57PM
A possible explanation. I know enough about electrolysis and catholic protection to be dangerous so please bear with me. Buried telephone cables use to have a lead sheath and gas/oil pipelines are made of steel. Both had an outer waterproof sheath to protect them from the elements. Over time due to various reasons the outer protective coating could be compromised and the lead or steel exposed creating “hot spots”. In certain soils or areas with high EMI the hot spots would start corroding over time. To reduce the damage rectifiers and sacrificial anodes were installed. Some anodes were a magnesium-manganese binary alloy. Again the anode would sacrifice itself to protect the utility. IMO the manganese in the nickels with the high readings was sacrificed, left the nickel, due to soil conditions. Tom

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