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Re: The Tornado 10" & SEF 12x10 Coils Size Comparison
Posted by: Critterhunter
Date: July 15, 2012 01:37PM
The 10" Tornado is the best stock DD coil I've ever used on any machine. Much better than the various old 10" Explorer coils IMO. It's got good separation, excellent depth, and is very stable. In fact, I've thus far dug my two deepest coins with it at about 11" deep. I have yet to dig coins that deep with the 12x10 but my tests show it is deeper. In one test at a sensitivity setting of 3PM the stock 10" coil coil not even see a dime I buried but the 12x10 did without touching the sensitivity. The Tornado made it's appearance with the introduction of the Elite and continues to be made to this day. They have also replaced the heavy BBS coils on the Xcals as well.

A few more bits...The 12x10 is more stabile, allows higher sensitivity settings, and is a nice improvement in coverage you can really notice. It's also got better separation and seems to make tones more crisp. The odd thing is the machine feels sped up because of it's laser like detection field too. Detech and Kellyco claim the SEF coils are a hybrid of concentric and DD coil fields for the best of both worlds. Some believe that and say there is a small concentric-like center to the coil roughly the size of a large soup can. I used to think that but am not so sure, as the DD line seems very sharp from tip to tail, but is even sharper near the tip and tail. Either way, whether it's a concentric/DD hybrid or not, it is for sure a very unique coil with a unique detection field, and if it is partly concentric I'd say 90% of the field is DD...But a VERY sharp DD that makes for outstanding separation, and also since it's a less "fuzzy" field it rides on and sees less ground stew which equals more stability and higher sensitivity levels without the target being washed out by the ground matrix IMO. Use the tip to really sniff at stuff you think might be severly masked, but even the center does a much sharper job than any DD coil I've ever used at separation, big OR small IMO.

Here's a few pics of the 10" Tornado and 12x10 for size comparison. You can search on your own for various threads from others and me that compare both coils. One of which in which I go into detail on depth comparisons on buried targets with the two. For that reason I believe the 12x10 is a deeper coil even though my Tornado thus far holds the record at 11" for two coins, but I honestly haven't used the 12x10 at known deep coin spots yet to see if I can beat that. For one thing though, I am popping wheats and silver dimes in dry conditions at depth much more frequently with the 12x10 than I ever did with the Tornado at those same sites under dry conditions. That, combined with the fact that in one test the 12x10 could hear a buried silver dime at a 3Pm sensitivity setting but the Tornado could not, lead me to believe the 12x10 is deeper. It also seems more sensitive to tiny targets and seems to hit coins on edge even better than that already excellent ability of the Tornado. Not knocking the Tornado. Great coil. Best I ever used. It's just the 12x10 raises the bar even more in all performance aspects IMO.

Here's one link to a long in depth thread I wrote on the impressions of this coil, as well as to the 10" Tornado. Search on your own for "12x10, Tornado" (ALL WORDS, ANY DATE) and you'll find a ton of threads in this forum on them compared from people and me.

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1293994,1294614#msg-1294614



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Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2012 02:05PM by Critterhunter.




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Re: The Tornado 10" & SEF 15x12 Coils Size Comparison
Posted by: Critterhunter
Date: July 15, 2012 01:57PM
Here's some pics of the 15x12 this time and the 10" Tornado together for size comparison just like the others I just posted of the 12x10 and such. I won't go into any more details about these two coils as you can read that in prior posts and links I have posted in this sticky. But, I will add that without the coil cover the 15x12 is lighter than the 10" Tornado with coil cover. I should also mention that the 12x10 without a coil cover is lighter than the legendary light weight of the Sun Ray S-12. I use spray on bed liner on all my coils as it makes them lighter (a few ounces can make a huge differnce on a long day) and also gets rid of the hassle of cleaning under coil covers. That's especially important when say water hunting for sure.

Here's a link to my long detailed experiences with the 15x12 and thoughts on it compared to the Tornado. Keep in mind this was prior to owning a 12x10. It took me a long time to figure out the 15x12 wasn't getting deeper on coin/ring sized targets than the 10" Tornado in my soil, but it did on my mineralized beaches for some odd reason. I would figure if it wouldn't show more depth than stock in my mineralized land sites then why would it get more depth in the sand? Still can't figure that one out. Either way, in my soil the 12x10 is deeper than both the Tornado and the 15x12. The coverage of the 15x12 sure was awesome for gridding out a large area of sand or a big grass lot, that's for sure, but the 12x10 is still a nice step up over stock in that respect too...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1166419,page=1



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2012 02:01PM by Critterhunter.




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The New Detech 13" Ultimate Coil For The Sovereign
Posted by: Critterhunter
Date: July 15, 2012 02:30PM
This coil hasn't showed up at Kellyco yet in the Sovereign version but they said they are waiting on it, just like they are waiting on some more 12x10's from Detech to for the Sovereign to get in. This is the very latest coil by anybody for the Sovereign. Some got it already by ordering it through fleabay from a UK source, but I hear that source no longer ships to the US. You might be able to get him to by asking, but I found it very hard to find on Eabay and had to do some creative searches to dig the Sovereign version up on there. I suspect Joan Detectors (the UK version of Kellyco) will also be carrying it.

Notice how it looks very similar to the Pro Coil. It's also said to be super light like the Pro coil for the FBS Etrac/Explorer machines and only a tad heavier. By the way, the BBS (Sov/Excal) versions of the SEF coils are lighter than the FBS versions for some reason, and I think I dug up that the Sovereign version of the Ultimate is also lighter than the FBS version too.

This coil is very new but the initial reports from FBS guys and Excal/Sov guys are that it's very deep. Not sure yet if it's deeper than the 12x10. The Ultimate is also said to have some unique ability to sniff coins out of iron not seen on conventional round DD coils. I doubt it separates as good as the 12x10 just by share fact of the SEF's unique shape that compresses the width of the DD detection line, if not just for the fact that the Ultimate is 1" longer and 3" wider.

By the way, on the prior 10" Tornado/12x10 comparison photos...Notice how the SEF holds it's width wider for more area of it's length than the round Tornado, just like the 15x12 does compared to the WOT.

I really want to get my hands on this coil and run it head to head against my 12x10. I feel in my soil either 12 or 13" is the max size limit I can use in a coil and still see depth gains on coin/ring sized targets due to taking in too much ground matrix and degrading the target quality. I'm not even sure if the round S-12 will show depth gains in my soil over the stock 10" Tornado due to that, but feel the 12x10 does due to it's super sharp and less fuzzy field. One day I'll get a S-12 and compare it to the 12x10 in depth.

Here's a thread about the Ultimate...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1704330,page=1

Just like the 12x10, you might have to call Kellyco and ask somebody who should know like JW if they have any in. The 12x10 Sovereign version was always hard to find on Kellyco's website and I suspect it and the Ultimate might still be hard to find on their site even when they get them in.

And here's some pics from initial lucky guys who got their hands on one. The last pic is from a FBS guy comparing it to the 11" Pro Coil and 12x10 in the pic for size comparison...



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2012 02:34PM by Critterhunter.




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Re: The Coiltech WOT & Detech SEF 15x12 Size Comparison
Posted by: Rick(ND)
Date: July 15, 2012 02:37PM
The S-5 and the S-12 of Sun Rays were the first after market coils for the Minelab Sovereigns. When I started using a Sovereign XS in 1996 the only coils available were the Sun Rays and great coils they were. Maybe Kellyco sold a Hot Head first which I am not sure of, but do know those were not good coils. The W.O.T. come out later on and some do like them and some don't, around here those that had them have sold them and gotten the S-12 of Sun Rays as they seem to be lighter and deeper for us that do coin hunting. Like I say some do like them and some don't and don't know of anyone that has tried the SEF coils for the Sovereigns around here as many now are Explorer and E-Trac users around here.

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The Coiltek 5x10 Joey Coil...
Posted by: Critterhunter
Date: July 15, 2012 02:45PM
This coil has been out I think (?) almost as long as the WOT (a LONG time) and is still made for the Sovereign yet I hear very little about it...

I'll not bother to post info or thread links to this coil. It has such a unique name you can do that searching yourself.



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Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2012 03:00PM by Critterhunter.




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The Coiltek12x8 Platypus Coil (or some say it is 11.5x8.5")...
Posted by: Critterhunter
Date: July 15, 2012 02:49PM
EDIT: They indeed did (and maybe still do?) make this coil for the Sovereign. I saw some debate on that in older threads but then ran across a few where people were using it on their Sovereign. However, I did a quick skim of Coiltek's site and didn't see a Sovereign version listed. There is also debate as to what it's actual size was. I suspect it was 11.5x8.5 because that's what the few old threads I found said it was. The 12x8 specs for the picture of one below I got off Coiltek's site are the Etrac/Explorer FBS version. Perhaps for them it's 12x8 but the old Sovereign version was 11.5x8.5 as a few old threads referenced? Also, I think I *vaguely* remember seeing a picture of the Sovereign version of the Platypus and I think it was solid, not looking like the FBS version below? Not sure about that though...

Either way, never saw much buzz or message traffic in my searches for this coil. Even less than the Joey in fact, and the Joey didn't have much either. That should tell people something. Much more posts about the S-5 or the 5/6 Excelerator coil(s).

I'll not bother to post info or thread links to this coil either. Like the Joey, it has such a unique name you can do that searching yourself.



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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2012 03:01PM by Critterhunter.




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The Excelerator 5" Coil...
Posted by: Critterhunter
Date: July 16, 2012 09:19AM
I dug up a quote on this coil from somebody on it's actual size..."I have the Detech 5" Excelerator S Coil. The actual diameter of the coil is 4 3/4 inches."

That's pretty small then because the S-5 is 5.5" and to me looks like a hockey puck, so for even more extremely severe trash people might want to opt for the Excelerator, although the S-5 is one tiny little coil and I don't see how it could get much better separation wise. I did see one review where a guy said the S-5 got more depth for him, was more stable, and that he just liked the S-5 over all better. But, I've never really read any bad remarks about the Excelerator so take that with a grain of salt. The FBS guys for sure seem to love them.

Below is a picture I dug up from Matthias of the Excelerator. I'm assuming it's the same coil the above quote talks about size wise because Matthias called it a 5" coil. However, note the name of the coil in the picture while the quote above called is an "S" coil. The mysterey of potential versions/sizes of the Detech Excelerator trash coil(s) continues. As said, I *think* there might be two Excelerators out there...A 5 and a 6". If I had to guess I *think* they replaced the 5" with a 6" but it might have been the reverse of that, if they ever did in fact make a coil in both sizes? Still not sure about that, but I do believe whichever one was the last (if there were two) is still being made in a Sovereign version and Kellyco still carries it far as I know. I guess you'd have to call and ask somebody who knows like JW. But with the above "S" coil name and the pic of Matthias's below, now I'm wondering if there are even a few versions of a 5" coil as well too? Either way, the coil below looks like it's probably a 4 & 3/4" coil like the size described above in the quote.

I think I'll shoot off a PM to JW and see if he can clear this up for me to post- were there two size coils, and were there a few versions of each or something...As well as what the current version Detech makes for the Sovereign is.

The pic below I think says "Multiple Harmonic Wideband DD Searchcoil".



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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2012 09:28AM by Critterhunter.




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The Excelerator 8" Concentric Search Coil...
Posted by: Critterhunter
Date: July 16, 2012 10:33AM
Welp, a bit of the mystery is cleared up concerning my remarks about a "new" 8" Excelerator search coil at Kellyco for the Sovereign that I saw show up a few months back on their site but never looked into the details on it. I had previously speculated this was either a new DD Excelerator in an 8" size or that it was a mislabled 5/ 6" Excelerator coil(s) for the Sovereign. Nope! Just looked, and it is the 8" Concentric Excelerator coil talked about before! This 8" concentric for the Sovereign had disappeared a year or so ago off their site as far as I know, but then a few months back I noticed a 8" coil again being listed for the Sovereign. Finally looked into it to see what it was. If anybody has used this coil please let us know how you like it and if it's a true 8" coil...

http://www.kellycodetectors.com/minelab/sovereignelite-accessories.htm#!lightbox



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Re: The Coiltek Coils...
Posted by: Critterhunter
Date: July 16, 2012 11:00AM
My memory must have been wrong, as Coiltek shows the platypus for the Sovereign as an open framed coil and not a solid one. I didn't see the Sovereign version for sale on their site but I didn't look well. This is an older pic of all their coils they make for the Sovereign that I ran across...



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The Detech Excelerators...
Posted by: Critterhunter
Date: July 16, 2012 11:19AM
Far as I know the early versions, which were said not to be as good, were called the Penetrators, but I did read where somebody said that was just the name of the European versions of the Excelerators. It might be that the old versions were just called Excelerators and that the new ones are called Excelerator EQ2 coils. In fact, I think that's probably right to tell the old from the new from what I gather. Either way, I have seen more than a few references to there being old versions of this coil that weren't good. Detech still makes them for the Sovereign but I don't think Kellyco carries them anymore. Hardly any press on these coils out there so that should say something maybe, but I have ran across a few threads where guys seem to like them for at least beach hunting, while a few others said there were a bit unstable and too "hot". That might have been talking about the old version of this coil though, because I remember that was the complaint with the original ones and as said the newer ones are said to be better.

Quote
UK Brian
I've the 14" Detech Penetrator and the Sunray 12" and they both weigh in at exactly the same weight. Sensitivity edge goes to the S 12 but the Detech is a bit deeper on larger targets.
Sunray build quality is great but the Detech's, though looking O.K. can have slight warps which can effect the performance which could exclude them from being a good buy from @#$%&.

And a thread compared to the S-12 and such



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Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2012 11:33AM by Critterhunter.




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The Sun Ray S-12, S-8, And S-5...
Posted by: Critterhunter
Date: July 16, 2012 12:12PM
The Sunray S-12 Intruder, S-8 Intruder (a true 8" coil I think), S-5 (5.5") Intruder, and testimonials



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2012 12:17PM by Critterhunter.




Re: Sovereign and Excalibur Search Coils
Posted by: matthias
Date: July 16, 2012 12:58PM
Here is a requested pic of the older version Sun-Ray S-5 coil. White with black coil protector. Great coil IMHO. Please excuse the dirt...this coil gets used hard. HH. Matt




Re: Sovereign and Excalibur Search Coils
Posted by: matthias
Date: July 16, 2012 01:02PM
The SEF Butterfly DD coil 15x18 next to the SEF Butterfly DD coil 10x12. A monster of a coil! HH. Matt




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One thing to take into consideration
Posted by: Rick(ND)
Date: July 16, 2012 02:47PM
The Coils for the Sovereign and the Explorers are 2 different coils and perform different too. I find the Sun Rays to all perform awesome on either the Explorers or the Sovereigns. On the coiltec I find the Joey is excellent on the Explorers, but not as good on the Sovereign for those I have tried. On the Excelerators I found the 5 inch coil for the Explorer seem to be OK, but for the Sovereign I didn't think they worked that good, but the Sun Ray 5 inch was excellent. on either the Sovereign or the Explorers. This is one of the reason I have said just because a coil works great on the Explorer do mean the same coil for the Sovereign will work as great, you just got to try it and see for yourself.

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Re: One thing to take into consideration
Posted by: Critterhunter
Date: July 16, 2012 03:06PM
Good point about some coils working well on some machines and not others. The SEF coils all seem to work the same in the FBS Etrac/Explorer versions and the BBS Sovereign/Xcal versions. Sounds like the 13" Ultimate also is equally good on both platforms as well. Same deal with the FBS X-5 and BBS S-5, and the X-12 and the S-12. All said to be great coils on both platforms.

Matthias, that 18x15 is a monster next to the 12x10! And I thought the 15x12 was huge. Actually after using the 15x12 you get used to the size and then it doesn't feel like such a big coil after a while. I can tell you that when I rarely use my 10" Tornado after using the 12x10 the Tornado feels tiny to me. I enjoy the slight extra coverage of the 12x10. Seems like I have better control of not missing spots per sweep and also don't have to hold my steps back as much when hunting with it compared to my Tornado.



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