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Honestly... what depths are you getting in Auto?
Posted by: Happa54
Date: February 27, 2018 10:51AM
Hey everyone

I know this comes up quite a bit and will probably be ongoing because of the performance of Etrac and CTX... IMO

2017, was my first full year detecting. Got lots of silver, wheats, relics, rings, a dated SLQ, Barber, foreign currency, blah, blah, blah. It has done well for me.

I hunt the trashy parks of Los Angeles and suburbs and no beach hunting.

I never really hunted in Auto, but for the most part 16 sens. Now I'm at 18 sens and digging less I believe due to tons of falsing/masking and also going from SEF 8x6 and back to the 11" stock coil.

I only block out iron and threshold at a light hum all in conductive and cross checking in AM.

I noticed that lately at 18 sens, I'm having a difficult time separating even the wheats from the trash. At 16 and small coil they couldn't get away from me. Now almost nil.

The frustrating thing is in auto, masking/falsing is down to a minimum but I lose depth, and at 18, I go deeper, but tons of falsing/masking and difficult with separation.

I'm sure I could do a whole lot better if I switch back to the 8x6 coil but then I cover less ground.

I keep talking myself in and out of upgrading to Etrac due to all the posts I read from former Etrac owners who downgraded to Safari and say we Safari owners are not outgunned by either Etrac/CTX.

Costs are not the issue here but I don't want to do the upgrade to find it was all for naught. I don't want to waste too much time learning a machine that is no better than the one I have.

So my question is, in all HONESTY... how many Safari owners have hit 7" silver/wheat targets CONSISTENTLY in AUTO and not just once in awhile when the target is not surrounded by trash?

I hunt alongside an Etrac and Explorer owners who hunt at a level of insanity and I can't keep up with them. Their settings are not maxed out but they consistently pull the silvers out a 7" - 8" consistently.

Is there really no comparison between the 3 machines or are we really outgunned by the others?

I WOULD LOVE to hunt exclusively in AUTO but that may not be realistic and I'm frustrated with all the falsing and bad separation, etc and max sens.

I learn and thrive from all the feedback in the forums and if someone has a better way of pushing the Safari to perform at it's optimum, I'd like to hear about it.

Thanks for all your feedback.

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Re: Honestly... what depths are you getting in Auto?
Posted by: Champ Ferguson
Date: February 27, 2018 04:21PM
Extreme variation in my limestone/dolostone derived soils. I've seen Auto at anything from 5 to 24 in my soils. Typically runs 14-18. On the rich loamy soils (think riverbottoms) Auto will be in the low 20s.


Edited to add:
oops; I see that I answered the wrong question. its been so long since I've hunted my Safari regularly, I don't feel qualified to answer your question Happa54. I will say that my depths were very soil quality dependent tho. Deeper finds in the loamy soils, that is.

fwiw, I used Auto as a guide to decide what manual setting I would start at




Minelab CTX
Minelab Excalibur II
Minelab Safari



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2018 04:26PM by Champ Ferguson.

Re: Honestly... what depths are you getting in Auto?
Posted by: dirt lizard
Date: February 28, 2018 05:54AM
I haven't used auto enough to know what kind of depth I'm getting. I'm mostly in manual at 15 getting about 6-8 inches on coins. I was told that auto use was for any one just beginning to learn the safari then work into manual. Try reading Andy Sabetch's book book Quattro and Safari manual. Lots of great info.



Minelab Equinox 600, Teknetics T2 classic

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Re: Honestly... what depths are you getting in Auto?
Posted by: Southwind
Date: February 28, 2018 06:57AM
Nothing but auto +3. Manual has gotten me nothing but more false iron.



The real treasure is in the hunt...

Re: Honestly... what depths are you getting in Auto?
Posted by: Happa54
Date: February 28, 2018 09:49AM
Quote
dirt lizard
I haven't used auto enough to know what kind of depth I'm getting. I'm mostly in manual at 15 getting about 6-8 inches on coins. I was told that auto use was for any one just beginning to learn the safari then work into manual. Try reading Andy Sabetch's book book Quattro and Safari manual. Lots of great info.

Thanks for responding everyone.

This is a tough subject on the Safari cuz there just isn't enough testing on its capabilities either on youtube or written, like there is on the Etrac.

I've read Sabich's Quattro/Safari book several times over and have even read his Explorer/Etrac manual as well. I probably have over 800 hours on the Safari and I still don't understand all that it is capable of, if anything more.

I've worked very little in Auto because I'm in the mindset that I will miss too many good targets due to lack of depth. But then, depth means more sens, which means more instability and falsing.

I cross train my brain by watching and reading all I can on the Etrac since they are identical on tones and power but there is that middle ground that I can't find on the Safari that IMO should make it equal to the Etrac. Maybe the reality is the Safari simply cannot equal it's bigger brother.

I'm so fortunate to have cut my teeth in this hobby on the Safari. It has given me lots of good finds. But now I'm working deep iffy scratchy signals in heavily pounded areas and it isn't easy. You can get the silver/wheats in the shallows every now and then but for the most part, you gotta consistently go 6" - 8" unless you are into clad.

I will continue to adjust my sens & threshold settings and work primarily in AM to see if I can get better separation on my signals in the heavy iron/trash.

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Re: Honestly... what depths are you getting in Auto?
Posted by: Goldstrike
Date: February 28, 2018 09:54PM
I'm a coin and jewelry guy primarily and I don't like to detect in auto. To me, and this might be my imagination! I loose depth, if only slightly but it's evident to me. Also, I get the impression that it takes a little longer for the machine to process signals in auto....maybe it works on a different algorithm? I get a little impatient if I have to go tooooo slow waiting for a tone and TDI. I want to hear everything under the coil and have a quick response time to determine weather to dig or not.

The separation of target's question is more of a question of choice of coils to swing. Big coils=more depth + bigger footprint= more masking good targets. Small coils=less depth but better separation of targets.
If I haven't made sense, or I haven't stuck to the original question, it's because it's been a long day and I'm tired!!!! lol so that's my excuse and I'm sticking with it!!

Re: Honestly... what depths are you getting in Auto?
Posted by: dirt lizard
Date: March 01, 2018 05:39AM
Hunt for a few hrs. in auto. Take notes on what happens with depth and other things as you hunt. Then hunt in manual at your choice of sensitivity for a few hrs. and do the same. this is what I do to see what my machine is telling me in which mode to work in. I still haven't worked enough in auto yet but this is just an idea on how you can find out what your looking for.



Minelab Equinox 600, Teknetics T2 classic

Re: Honestly... what depths are you getting in Auto?
Posted by: Happa54
Date: March 01, 2018 09:10AM
Thanks for your feedback guys.

I think another approach I need to take is to "adjust" as much as I need depending on how polluted the area is.

I'm sure I read somewhere down the road where adjustments to sens can happen numerous times in a hunt, depending on soils, trash, etc.

New strategy to employ here.

It's a never ending learning process, isn't it?

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Re: Honestly... what depths are you getting in Auto?
Posted by: sasquache
Date: March 04, 2018 05:27AM
I have found in my soil with my Safari with tje stock coil that i do not get the depth in auto i see a 2 to 3 inch difference in auto but in manual at a setting of 16,17,18 im hiting the deep stuff right along side my hunting buds E-trac bud i do hit a little more of the deep some iron trash but tjats ok with me.

Re: Honestly... what depths are you getting in Auto?
Posted by: IDXMonster
Date: March 09, 2018 06:07PM
Kurt,you’re on the right track with the above info. As Champ said,and maybe others...it’s really quite “soil and junk” dependent. JIMZILLA here on the forum had a great post about Manual vs Auto on the CTX one time,and he said Manual undoubtedly goes deeper in air testing and many ground conditions. He also stated that while that was true,Auto+3 GOT HIM MORE COINS. Now,if you ONLY have ever hunted in Manual,then that would not apply,as you wouldn’t know the difference,but it seemed to him that the coins that Manual was able to see that Auto did NOT were far and few between. That is with the CTX. I do believe(and I don’t have a lot of evidence other than my own usage to prove this) that with the straight FBS machines(eTrac,Explorer,Safari) that “semi Auto” may be dialing back the Sensitivity too much IN REALLY NASTY GROUND. I have without a doubt found 9”+ coins with my Explorer2 and the Sunray X-12 in “semi Auto”. How many have I missed by doing this? I don’t know. But this was good black dirt. You may have something different.
Keep checking those signals your friends find when you can,and determine FOR YOURSELF whether or not the Safari is capable of seeing the same thing,IF you get the coil over it. Don’t forget...swing speed is CRITICAL. In order not to “swamp” the coil,the tougher the conditions,the slower and shorter the sweep should be. Of course,test this out for yourself,and YMMV.

Re: Honestly... what depths are you getting in Auto?
Posted by: TomNH
Date: March 10, 2018 03:54PM
I never hunt in auto. I get too much falsing that shows as pennies at full depth but sound funny.
In manual I turn it down until MOST of it goes away, typically mid teens. Clad & silver come up
at 8" or more BUT beyond 8" I often dont dig unless its in my favor. At that ID is usually good & so
is tone.

HH Tom
LFOD !

Re: Honestly... what depths are you getting in Auto?
Posted by: IDXMonster
Date: March 10, 2018 07:40PM
Quote
TomNH
I never hunt in auto. I get too much falsing that shows as pennies at full depth but sound funny.
In manual I turn it down until MOST of it goes away, typically mid teens. Clad & silver come up
at 8" or more BUT beyond 8" I often dont dig unless its in my favor. At that ID is usually good & so
is tone.

HH Tom
LFOD !

Tom,can you elaborate on the “falsing that shows as pennies” thing in Auto?

Re: Honestly... what depths are you getting in Auto?
Posted by: TomNH
Date: March 11, 2018 10:28AM
Quote
IDXMonster

I never hunt in auto. I get too much falsing that shows as pennies at full depth but sound funny.
In manual I turn it down until MOST of it goes away, typically mid teens. Clad & silver come up
at 8" or more BUT beyond 8" I often dont dig unless its in my favor. At that ID is usually good & so
is tone.

HH Tom
LFOD !

Tom,can you elaborate on the “falsing that shows as pennies” thing in Auto?
ID in mid 30's when I get one. Little or no reading on depth. Usually get it every few feet.
Audio is very weak & wide sounding.
One beef I have with ML is they dont give enuf theory of operation. I get it as to why but it leaves
us experimenting. Lets face it. Only a hand full of people at ML know how AUTO works. Add to them
a few at Garrett etc that have reverse engineered it looking for ideas.

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