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Problem with the new Six Shooter Sport coil?
Posted by: JEF
Date: April 19, 2018 11:32AM
I think that Whites may have a problem with their new six shooter coil. On mine a quarter reads as a dime. It shows a VDI of 79, and says it is a dime instead of a quarter. A dime shows a VDI of 73, instead of 78 or 79 where a dime would normally read. On the AHRPS forum Monte said that his six shooter coil is doing the same thing. Has anyone else noticed this? I am driving over to Whites in Sweet Home today, and I am going to take my six shooter coil with me and ask them about it.



Current detectors:
Tesoro Bandido II Umax
Tesoro Outlaw
Tesoro Mojave
Whites MX5
Whites MXT Pro
Tesoro Sand Shark
Whites Beach Hunter ID 300

Re: Problem with the new Six Shooter Sport coil?
Posted by: doc holiday232
Date: April 19, 2018 01:20PM
Quarter reads as a dime----Inflation.

Re: Problem with the new Six Shooter Sport coil?
Posted by: JaWi.
Date: April 19, 2018 06:43PM
I checked my Six Shooter and it also miss ID's a quarter as a penny dime. Joe

Re: Problem with the new Six Shooter Sport coil?
Posted by: JEF
Date: April 19, 2018 11:05PM
Well, Whites does have a problem with the new six shooter coil. I drove over to Whites in Sweet Home today. I took my MX7 and six shooter coil with me. Mary Hudson has retired, and the new service representative is Jack Blanshan. First he tried a quarter and dime on my machine. Then he took my coil off and put it on their demo MX7. Then he took a new coil off the shelf and tried it on their demo MX7. Every time it showed a quarter as a dime, and a dime at 73. So then he went over to their repair department and talked to Tom Boykin. Tom told him that they were aware of the problem and were working on fixing it. He said that after they fix the problem, I can take my coil back and exchange it.



Current detectors:
Tesoro Bandido II Umax
Tesoro Outlaw
Tesoro Mojave
Whites MX5
Whites MXT Pro
Tesoro Sand Shark
Whites Beach Hunter ID 300

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Re: Problem with the new Six Shooter Sport coil?
Posted by: liondogs
Date: April 20, 2018 11:02AM
Thanks JEF for checking this out. I was getting ready to buy this coil for my MX sport but will now hold off until they fix the problem. I wonder why this was not caught during testing of the coil before it went in to production. Depending on how many coils have been made and sold this could be a costly mistake for Whites.



Joe in Washington State

Detectors currently owned: Whites V3i, Whites MX Sport
Detectors I have owned: Jetco Mustang, Fisher F5, Fisher F75 LTD, Whites MX5, MXT All-Pro
Pinpointers: Whites TRX
Headphones: Whites Wireless, Koss QZ-99, Whites Waterproof Sport
Diggers: Lesche, Gator

Kind of .. but in my opinion, a 'problem' is in detector design for USA Concumers.
Posted by: Monte
Date: April 20, 2018 11:24AM
Let me start by being clear in my opinions about the MX-7:

I own and use TWO of the MX-7's in my Regular-Use Detector Team and enjoy them for many reasons and they are a great complement to my TWO Nokta CoRe, TWO Nokta Relic and TWO Makro Racer 2 devices. I have TWO of each of these models because I like the detector, and I hunt moderately littered to very dense debris sites and I have a smaller size and mid-size coils for each pair of my favorite detector models.

For the MX-7 I keep the 6½", measured, or 6" labeled Six Shooter Concentric coil on my most-used unit as the 'smaller coil', and the 7" Double-D made by Detech for White's on the others as my mid-sized coil for modestly littered sites. Actually, my 6½" was Ian initial prototype coil for the MX-7/MX-Sport that has the earlier style rounded 'bowl-shape' bottom half and I need to get a new flat-bottom and thinner-looking Six Shooter for it.

JEF contacted me Wed. evening and stated he had the '79' numeric VDI respond from a US Quarter, but the display read DIME, and it just so happened that early that day when hunting a former CCC / Japanese Internment Camp / County Park site I found a 25¢ piece at about a 4" depth. It was a moderately trashy site and I could hear the annoyance of the close-by junk targets. I only got a half-decent signal on a couple of sweep directions that caught my attention with all the low-volume rejected trash audio I was hearing, and the VDI read-out, with a short-length wiggle of the coil, gave me a '78'/'79' response occasionally also showing a '77.'

Checking, I had a sizing indication is was a narrower, coin-like target-size response and hoped for a silver dime or quarter. I seldom glance at the printed coin denomination type, just refer to the numeric VDI read-out with the MX-7's because that how I use all my other makes and models. When I used to use the MXT All-Pro and MX-5 I did the very same thing, only referencing the VDI numeric report and not the detector's guess of a coin or object label.

I had noticed the periodic errant target read-out when I first started evaluating the MX-7 and the 6½" Concentric, 7" DD, and standard 950 Concentric coils, but I didn't fuss much about it because most of my time is spent in Relic Hunting environments where I am dealing with high mineralized sites and very dense debris, especially nails, other iron objects, and various sizes of hunks to bits and pieces of rusty tin.:ranting: Most places I hunt, even a lot of the urban Coin Hunting locations, will have some challenges such as working close to metal structures or in areas with higher trash levels. Doing so we will have the masking effects of nearby objects that can, and will, throw off a good target's TID reading with a slightly up-scale or down-scale numeric report. That's normal.

Targets that are located a little deeper or are canted at an odd angle can also throw off the visual, and audio, Target ID we might get, and that simply suggests that nothing is going to be perfect. We know, or learn, that in a variety of hunting environments and when dealing with various hunting challenges, such as various ground mineral conditions or nearby masking offenders, the TID response might not lock on perfectly. Numeric VDI information should be used as a general reference to an object's conductivity level and we can mentally associate desired objects with visual responses we get in testing as well as in-the-field searches.

North of us those Canadians get to find a lot more $1 Loonies and $2 Twoonies that I wish we had, and those coins are made of mixed metals. Most Canadian coins today, and for quite some time, have also been made of similar metals such as Nickel, Steel or other 'blends' that are predominantly a ferrous or magnetic-based metal. They don't get rock-solid and consistent VDI read-outs like we do with the better metal coins here in the USA. And when you consider all the other countries where White's products are put to use, you will see a wide-range of coins. Alloy metal types, various sizes and shapes and thicknesses, and other things that can influence a located target's numeric VDI response.

Thus, many different denominations of coins and metals used to make them that there is going to be a lot of different VDI responses. Everyone from every country learns those target read-outs. They have to learn what the numeric response might be from THEIR coins, and then know those responses can vary at least a little bit for several reasons. I don't have my MX-7 Owner's Manual at hand, but I looked at the MX-7 manual on-line at the White's website. The manual is in English (American English, if you will) and Spanish for our other neighbors to the south. Refer to both sections on Page 17. I can only read the one in English, however, note the graph on the left-hand side.

It is the same graph that the Canadians and Mexicans can refer to that gives a general Numeric Reference for Low-Conductive 'Iron', a Mid-Conductive 'Gold' range that runs from high iron to include the USA 1¢ and 10¢ range, and then 'Silver' for the High-Conductive range. Mentally, folks in those countries use the VDI numeric responses in general reference to a Low, Mid or High conductivity target they might be searching for.

But they look at this graph and then at the MX-7 and MX-Sport Display and see a US Coin Reference for Zinc Penny, Copper Penny, Dime, Quarter, etc. Those denomination names do them absolutely no good and are there simply because Target ID, as we know it, got started here in the USA way back in '83 with the Teknetics Coin Computer and manufacturers were quick use our US coin references for the majority of metal detecting Hobbyists who are Coin Hunters. That was back in the day where a lot more people were into the hobby here in the US, and when we had more detector makers, more clubs, more dealers, and were one of the more active countries where metal detecting took place.

Not so today. The metal detecting industry has really grown a great deal in many other countries, and we're seeing more foreign metal detector manufacturers who are sharing the upper-end of the quality detector market. And they are not tailoring their detectors to specific tight-range categories intended to be specific coin denomination with a word association, but simply relying on having a nice VDI numeric display that a consumer can use to learn where the targets they are after might respond.


Back to search coils for a minute .....

It is important to have a coil that is tuned or calibrated to work well with a detector, and it's also important to have a detector that offers Ground Balance to get the best performance with any coil and in any search mode used. And, as with other brands, we also notice that it is not unusual to change a coil on a detector and have a sample target produce a slightly different VDI read-out by one or two numbers either higher or lower. That's normal and expected from possibly happening with either a detector maker's search coil or one from an after-market search coil..

I don't have, but want to get, the new flat-bottom Six Shooter Concentric coil. A very functional search coil that is light weight and handy for many applications. I hope they might find a slight calibration to make to get that coil to produce a little better response, but let's use caution in our wishes. It's best to just refer to the numeric response and, in my opinion, it would be better to eliminate the wordage that describes what a coin might be. Just do away with it.

Consider this. A Dime range is from '75' to '79' and the Quarter range starts at '80.' A clad dime, with the 6" Concentric coil and sometimes with the 7" DD and other coils, usually gives a '74' read-out that says CPENNY. So, let's say they remedy that by making the common US Dime produce a '77' VDI that is right in the middle of the Dime's numeric range. Great! Until someone happens to sweep over a silver dime instead of clad and the VDI response is then '79', which is a DIME or maybe the silver Dime drive the response to '80' or '81.' What then???? Is everyone going to be bothered because the display then 'says' QUARTER when it isn't?

So, in the end, the VDI might be off slightly on some coins with some coils by 1 to 3 VDI numbers. No big deal to many savvy Detectorists because there's more tellable information in the audio Tone, audio response, VDI read-out and consistency, and quick sizing and classification when using the Pinpoint function that lets us know the target is a likely desirable find and needs to be recovered. Me? I'll stick with my very good MX-7, my preferred 6" Concentric and 7" DD coils, hunt in a slow and methodical manner and pay attention to the VDI numeric read-out.

Get a reasonably good to questionable 'iffy' response, then rely on the proven 'Beep-DIG!' method for success. Recover the target, and then check it out ...

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"Your EYES ... the only 100% accurate form of Discrimination!"

Stinkwater Wells
Trading Post

Metal Detector Evaluations and Product Reviews
'How-To' help for Coin & Jewelry Hunting, Relic Hunting and Useful Techniques.

My Regular-Use Detector Team are various models from: Makro, Nokta, Tesoro and White's
Pinpointers: Using Nokta and Makro Pointers.
Headphones: Using Killer B's 'Hornet' and White's Pro Star w/'tank style' ear cups.
Recovery Tools: Using White's Ground Hawg Shovel and DigMaster digging tools.
Note: Detectors are listed alphabetically by Brand. Models are chosen as desired based on search site conditions.
Other models on-hand for 'Specialty Use.'
Additional search coils. mounted on spare lower-rods, are on-hand in my Accessory Coil Tote.


*** All working well today to make memories for tomorrow. ***

monte@stinkwaterwells.com .. or .. monte@ahrps.org
(503) 481-8147


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Re: Kind of .. but in my opinion, a 'problem' is in detector design for USA Concumers.
Posted by: liondogs
Date: April 21, 2018 07:05AM
Thank you Monte for your interesting well thought out reply.:clapping:

Re: Problem with the new Six Shooter Sport coil?
Posted by: tboykin
Date: April 23, 2018 01:03PM
Hey guys, thanks to all for bringing this to our attention. It's an easy fix and we should have it in place within two weeks.



Social Media Guy @ White's

'Thank You' Tom. Once the 'fix is done ...
Posted by: Monte
Date: April 23, 2018 04:49PM
I need to get the new thin-profile, flat-bottom Six Shooter Concentric coil. It will be nice to have more convincing TID's on targets in favorable environments. :thumbup:

It's been pleasant over on this side of the state and I somehoe3w forgot to shoot a reminder to you to try and get a day or three away from over there to attend the 7th WTHO based out of Vale, Oregon. Three gold mining ghost towns are on the agenda, and two were quite productive last year. The oldest coin found was an 1836 Capped Bust Dime! Other old coins and nice artifacts were recovered, including a Civil War Era sword belt buckle plate. The WTHO is this coming Thursday thru Sunday with a get-together of all attendees on Saturday evening at the Willow Creek Café.

If you have any time to travel this way, you would certainly be welcome.

Again, thanks for letting folks know about the soon to be remedied Six Shooter coil for the MX-7 and MX Sport.

Monte



"Your EYES ... the only 100% accurate form of Discrimination!"

Stinkwater Wells
Trading Post

Metal Detector Evaluations and Product Reviews
'How-To' help for Coin & Jewelry Hunting, Relic Hunting and Useful Techniques.

My Regular-Use Detector Team are various models from: Makro, Nokta, Tesoro and White's
Pinpointers: Using Nokta and Makro Pointers.
Headphones: Using Killer B's 'Hornet' and White's Pro Star w/'tank style' ear cups.
Recovery Tools: Using White's Ground Hawg Shovel and DigMaster digging tools.
Note: Detectors are listed alphabetically by Brand. Models are chosen as desired based on search site conditions.
Other models on-hand for 'Specialty Use.'
Additional search coils. mounted on spare lower-rods, are on-hand in my Accessory Coil Tote.


*** All working well today to make memories for tomorrow. ***

monte@stinkwaterwells.com .. or .. monte@ahrps.org
(503) 481-8147


Re: Problem with the new Six Shooter Sport coil?
Posted by: JEF
Date: April 23, 2018 08:56PM
I do like the six shooter coil. I have been using it, and it is really a nice little coil. It is light weight and balances nicely on the MX7. It works well except for the numbers. I just substituted quarter in my head when it said it was a dime.



Current detectors:
Tesoro Bandido II Umax
Tesoro Outlaw
Tesoro Mojave
Whites MX5
Whites MXT Pro
Tesoro Sand Shark
Whites Beach Hunter ID 300

Quite correct, Jim, about the new Six Shooter search coil.
Posted by: Monte
Date: April 24, 2018 12:58AM
Light weight and well balanced on my MX-7. Matter of fact, that combination makes the lightest feeling, best balanced set-up of all my TID detectors. With my bad back, knee, leg and foot I think the best description is 'most comfortable' and just barely nudges out my Racer 2 w/7" Concentric for that title. I do want to get the new Six Shooter with the flat bottom design when they have remedied the issue, but until then my bowl-bottom prototype 6" coil is sure working well for me.in al the trashier sites I generally hunt.

Have to give a tip-of-the-hat to the MX-7 as well as the smaller Concentric coil because it, also, is providing me with a lot of in-the-field time and pleasurable results. Great combination.

Monte



"Your EYES ... the only 100% accurate form of Discrimination!"

Stinkwater Wells
Trading Post

Metal Detector Evaluations and Product Reviews
'How-To' help for Coin & Jewelry Hunting, Relic Hunting and Useful Techniques.

My Regular-Use Detector Team are various models from: Makro, Nokta, Tesoro and White's
Pinpointers: Using Nokta and Makro Pointers.
Headphones: Using Killer B's 'Hornet' and White's Pro Star w/'tank style' ear cups.
Recovery Tools: Using White's Ground Hawg Shovel and DigMaster digging tools.
Note: Detectors are listed alphabetically by Brand. Models are chosen as desired based on search site conditions.
Other models on-hand for 'Specialty Use.'
Additional search coils. mounted on spare lower-rods, are on-hand in my Accessory Coil Tote.


*** All working well today to make memories for tomorrow. ***

monte@stinkwaterwells.com .. or .. monte@ahrps.org
(503) 481-8147


Re: Problem with the new Six Shooter Sport coil?
Posted by: tboykin
Date: April 30, 2018 01:11PM
Fix is in place. If you notice high-conductor VDI numbers reading too low with your coil please give us a call and we will gladly swap it out for you at no charge. 1-800-547-6911.

This one is my fault, but thank you guys for helping us catch this quickly - only about 50 coils went out with the problem.



Social Media Guy @ White's

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Re: Problem with the new Six Shooter Sport coil?
Posted by: juit
Date: May 08, 2018 11:19PM
I notice that and sold the mx7 right away, i also didnt liked that it notch discriminates in segments and not in numeric values, that was also a bummer, ill keep swinging my mxtpro



Minelab 705
Nokta relic
Fisher CZ5
Whites m6

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