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Re: Stay tuned on this forum for the ultimate Gold Test
Posted by: LW Steve
Date: February 10, 2019 07:29AM
Results for the F5 and 5" DD coil

Disc Mode & All Metal

First number(s) is ID
2nd number is repeat signal max depth

Due to EMI in my living room the gain was set at 30 (30%)

Threshold was at +6 (60%)
Everything else was at default settings for the F5



ring #1 disc mode ( 24 - 25 ) ( 3.25" ) +++++++++++ All Metal ( 24 - 25 ) ( 3" )
ring #2 disc mode ( 27 ) ( 3.25" ) ++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 27 ) ( 3.25" )
ring #3 disc mode ( 23 - 24 ) ( 3.25" ) ++++++++++ All Metal ( 23 - 24 ) ( 3" )
ring #4 disc mode ( 24 - 25 ) ( 3.25" ) ++++++++++ All Metal ( 24 - 25 ) ( 3" )
ring #5 disc mode ( 29 ) ( 3.5" ) ++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 29 ) ( 3.25" )
ring #6 disc mode ( 28 ) ( 3.5" ) +++++++++++++ All Metal ( 28 ) ( 3.25" )
ring #7 disc mode ( 28 ) ( 3.5" ) +++++++++++++ All Metal ( 28 ) ( 3.25" )
ring #8 disc mode ( 22 - 23 ) ( 2.25" ) ++++++++ All Metal ( 22 - 23 ) ( 2.25" )
ring #9 disc mode ( 26 ) ( 3.25" ) ++++++++++++ All Metal ( 25 - 26 ) ( 3.25" )
ring #10 disc mode ( 25 ) ( 3.5" ) ++++++++++++ All Metal ( 25 ) ( 3.25" )
ring #11 disc mode ( 26 ) (3.25" ) +++++++++++ All Metal ( 26 ) ( 3.25" )
ring #12 disc mode ( 21 - 22 ) ( 2.25" ) +++++++ All Metal ( 21 - 22 ) ( 2.25" )

14K chain section clasp area - disc mode ( 16 - 18 ) ( 1/16" ) ++++++++++ All Metal ( would not ID ) ( was detected at 1/16" )
gold nugget - disc mode ( 22 - 24 ) ( 3/4" ) ++++++++++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 19 - 21 ) ( 1/8" )
14K small clasp - disc mode ( 22 - 24 ) ( 3/4" ) +++++++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 25 - 26 ) ( 1/2" )
14K tear drop charm - disc mode ( 22 - 23 ) ( 3/4" ) +++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 21 - 23 ) ( 1/2" )
14K leaf charm - disc mode ( 21 - 23 ) ( 3/4" ) +++++++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 20 - 21 ) ( 1/2" )


Conclusions....

The F5 continues to get less depth in all metal than in disc mode.

The F5 is more sensitive to EM interference than the F44...
However the F5 has those awesome analog knobs (gain & threshhold) which gain quickly refute any EM interference.

I've noticed that rings which have a bigger hole size, get better depth than the smaller hole size rings. (even though the smaller hole size ring may have an equal amount of gold)
And of course the rings that weigh more will get better depth. (most of the time)

Next up the F44 and the 7" concentric coil.

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Re: Stay tuned on this forum for the ultimate Gold Test
Posted by: LW Steve
Date: February 10, 2019 08:49AM
I used a CZ and 5" coil on land from 1993 to 2018.
The CZ-5 and CZ-6a would get better depth with a 5" concentric coil than most detectors would with an 8" coil. :biggrin:
In those 25 years I dug a ton of silver with my CZ's however there was one test that my dual frequency CZ's failed miserably at...
And that was the dime next to rusty iron test.

In the photo is a silver dime next to a rusty piece of iron. The dime is actually a little lower than the iron as it sits.
Later on I will conduct a test with the 4" concentric coil on the F44 and the 5" DD coil on the F5...
I will cross the two targets horizontally and at a 45 degree angle...

Which detector will get the higher score?

We shall see...




Re: Stay tuned on this forum for the ultimate Gold Test
Posted by: Jeff Harris
Date: February 11, 2019 10:38PM
I'm going to say the F44. And now for the legend of the "Golden Child." Back when I started detecting (1993), one of my hunting partners had a CZ5. It was a beast, there was something wrong with the factory tolerances. The needle never showed silver on a bent rusty nail. John would regularly come to our monthly club meetings with 20-30 silvers, double digit buffalo & V nickels, dozens of wheaties and Indian heads. Eventually the CZ5 needed repairs, he sent it off, when it came back it was not the same. :ranting: John purchased quite a few CZ5 's and 6's but never found that sweet spot CZ. Now his go to machines are the Whites Spectrum and the T2. He still crushes it, the T2 with the 5" is a beast in nail riddled railroad camps.

Re: Stay tuned on this forum for the ultimate Gold Test
Posted by: Mike Hillis
Date: February 12, 2019 08:32AM
I want to do a quick clarification of the F5 test for folks.

1) the F5 Gain setting was on 30 (range is 0 to 100 in increments of 5)
2) the threshold was wide open (threshold setting are -9 to 0)
3) the small signal audio boost was on +6 (small signal audio boost settings are the threshold settings of +1 to +9)

So the F5 performance at such a low gain setting (30%) is not bad at all. Actually really good as compared to the F44 with the sensitivity settings of 12 (60%).

Looking at say,,,,ring #3. only a 1/2" difference between the two. I dare to say it but the F5 is the better performer.

HH
Mike





Currently own and use:
***** Fisher F75 LTD w/DST ***** Whites V3 ***** Minelab E-Trac *****Teknetics ETPro ***** Makro Gold Kruzer *****Tesoro Golden Sabre II ***** Tesoro Compadre ***** Garrett ATPRO *****

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Re: Stay tuned on this forum for the ultimate Gold Test
Posted by: LW Steve
Date: February 12, 2019 10:47AM
Quote
Mike Hillis
I want to do a quick clarification of the F5 test for folks.

1) the F5 Gain setting was on 30 (range is 0 to 100 in increments of 5)
2) the threshold was wide open (threshold setting are -9 to 0)
3) the small signal audio boost was on +6 (small signal audio boost settings are the threshold settings of +1 to +9)

So the F5 performance at such a low gain setting (30%) is not bad at all. Actually really good as compared to the F44 with the sensitivity settings of 12 (60%).

Looking at say,,,,ring #3. only a 1/2" difference between the two. I dare to say it but the F5 is the better performer.

HH
Mike

Mike, both detectors being used are brand new and have never been outdoors. (to let everybody know)
We still have 4 coils to go... (7" round - 8" round - 10" teardrop - 11" teardrop ) all 4 are concentric.

Going in I knew the F5 was a deeper machine and the F5 has proved it.! (so far)

However I'm a trash hunter and I love to hunt the trashy areas.
The metal detector world is a "give and take" world.
Meaning that if a detector gets great depth like the F5 then it is most likely not going to do as well in the trash like the F44 would.
Because the F44 will not go as deep as the F5. ( It's all about physics )
Example: In the 1990's we had the Fisher 1266X which could pull silver dimes out of the ground at a depth of 16" :biggrin:
But in the trash the 1266X had target separation problems and would ID iron as good signals at depths that it shouldn't.
Then also in the 1990's we had the Tesoro detectors which would not go nearly as deep as a 1266X but would "lay waste" to a 1266X in the trashy areas.
I know this because I used a Tesoro Stingray II out in the lakes for several years.....

I'm also trying to figure out if the F44 is better in the trash than the F5.
And can I figure this out from my living room with out going outside in the snow? :biggrin:

I have many more tests that I will be conducting... (Including an iron discrimination audio test) :biggrin:

In the meantime... I'm glad that I own both detectors!

HH

LW Steve

Re: Stay tuned on this forum for the ultimate Gold Test
Posted by: Mike Hillis
Date: February 12, 2019 11:14AM
Steve,
I'm glad you are doing all the testing. Its a lot of work and you are doing a good job. I was just just highlighting the difference.
Keep it up!

HH
Mike





Currently own and use:
***** Fisher F75 LTD w/DST ***** Whites V3 ***** Minelab E-Trac *****Teknetics ETPro ***** Makro Gold Kruzer *****Tesoro Golden Sabre II ***** Tesoro Compadre ***** Garrett ATPRO *****

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Re: Stay tuned on this forum for the ultimate Gold Test
Posted by: LW Steve
Date: February 12, 2019 11:42AM
Mike,

We also have coil battles that are brewing...

The "I can go deep in the trash" concentric 4" coil vs the Target Separating Bad A$$ 5" DD coil.

And the "Take me anywhere honey" Super 7" concentric coil vs the "Don't take me into the trash please" 10" teardrop coil :lol:

This is going to get a lot better before it gets worse. :biggrin:

HH

LW Steve



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2019 11:44AM by LW Steve.

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Re: Stay tuned on this forum for the ultimate Gold Test
Posted by: LW Steve
Date: February 15, 2019 02:38PM
After the gold & platinum ring testing has been completed we will go into the "Dog & Pony Tricks" portion of the bench testing.

I'm convinced one or maybe both the F5 & F44 has "see thru" abilities in the trash.

The F5 will be equipped with the 5" DD coil and the F44 gets the 4" concentric coil.

There will be several puzzles involved and each detector will try to detect the silver dime coming from 3 different directions.
( horizontally & vertically and at a 45 degree angle )

One of the puzzles that will be in the test I have already built. It is called "The Bridge over the River Kwai"
Can your detector detect that dime?

During the testing... I will be the Judge, Jury and Executioner. :lol:

There will be coins on edge, coins under bottle caps, coins under coins, this will be very interesting I promise you.

All this coming up later.... Now who ordered this dang snow? :shrug:

HH

LW Steve




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Re: Stay tuned on this forum for the ultimate Gold Test
Posted by: LW Steve
Date: February 16, 2019 04:13PM
From here on out I am going to run the threshold at zero on the F5 rather than +6 due to EMI in my living room.

And the F5 will go first in all tests so that the gain used by the F5 can be matched by the F44.

Results for the F5 and 7" coil

Disc Mode & All Metal

First number(s) is ID
2nd number is repeat signal max depth

Due to EMI in my living room the gain was set at 30 (30%)

Threshold was at 0 (zero)
Everything else was at default settings for the F5

ring #1 disc mode ( 24 ) ( 3" ) +++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 24 - 25 ) ( 3.25" )
ring #2 disc mode ( 26 ) ( 3.5" ) ++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 26 - 27 ) ( 3.75" )
ring #3 disc mode ( 23 ) ( 3" ) +++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 22 - 23 ) ( 3.25" )
ring #4 disc mode ( 24 ) ( 3" ) ++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 24 ) ( 3.25" )
ring #5 disc mode ( 28 ) ( 3.5" ) ++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 28 - 29 ) ( 3.75" )
ring #6 disc mode ( 27 ) ( 3.5" ) +++++++++++++ All Metal ( 27 - 28 ) ( 3.75" )
ring #7 disc mode ( 28 ) ( 3.25" ) +++++++++++++ All Metal ( 28 ) ( 3.5" )
ring #8 disc mode ( 21 - 22 ) ( 2.25" ) +++++++++ All Metal ( 21 - 22 ) ( 2.5" )
ring #9 disc mode ( 25 ) ( 3" ) +++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 24 - 25 ) ( 3.25" )
ring #10 disc mode ( 25 ) ( 3.25" ) ++++++++++++ All Metal ( 25 ) ( 3.5" )
ring #11 disc mode ( 25 - 26 ) (3" ) +++++++++++ All Metal ( 25 - 26 ) ( 3.25" )
ring #12 disc mode ( 20 - 21 ) ( 2.25" ) +++++++ All Metal ( 20 - 22 ) ( 2.5" )

14K chain section clasp area - disc mode ( would not ID ) ( barely detected at 1/16" ) ++ All Metal ( would not ID ) ( was detected at 1/16" )
gold nugget - disc mode ( 20 - 23 ) ( 1/16" ) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 19 - 22 ) ( 1/4" )
14K small clasp - disc mode ( 22 - 23 ) ( 1/16" ) +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 21 - 23 ) ( 1/4" )
14K tear drop charm - disc mode ( 21 - 23 ) ( 1/16" ) +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 22 - 23 ) ( 1/4" )
14K leaf charm - disc mode ( 20 - 23 ) ( 1/16" ) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 21 - 23 ) ( 1/4" )

Conclusions....

By keeping the threshold at +6 this increases the depth in disc mode and decreases the depth in all metal.

By reducing the threshold from +6 to zero this reduces the depth in disc mode and increases the depth in all metal.

By keeping the threshold at zero we will get a more understanding of what the F5 can do.

Because when I'm hunting those old parking strips over in Seattle there is no way I will be able to run the threshold at +6
due to all the EMI from the power lines.

But if you are way out in the country hunting Farmer Jones' farm field than by all means jack up your threshold to +6 so you
can get more depth in disc mode.

Next up the F44 and 7" coil with the same gain setting as the F5 just had.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2019 04:18PM by LW Steve.

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Re: Stay tuned on this forum for the ultimate Gold Test
Posted by: LW Steve
Date: February 20, 2019 04:30PM
Results for the F44 & 7" concentric coil

Disc Mode & All Metal
Artifact program for disc mode
Sensitivity was 6 of 20 (30%)

first number(s) is ID
2nd number is repeat signal max depth

ring #1 disc mode ( 27 ) ( 2.25" ) ++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 27 ) ( 2.5" )
ring #2 disc mode ( 29 - 30 ) ( 2.5" ) ++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 30 ) ( 2.75" )
ring #3 disc mode ( 25 - 26 ) ( 2.25" ) ++++++++++++ All Metal ( 25 - 26 ) ( 2.5" )
ring #4 disc mode ( 26 - 27 ) ( 2.25" ) ++++++++++++ All Metal ( 26 - 27 ) ( 2.5" )
ring #5 disc mode ( 34 ) ( 2.75" ) +++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 34 ) ( 3" )
ring #6 disc mode ( 31 -32 ) ( 3" ) +++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 31 - 32 ) ( 3.25" )
ring #7 disc mode ( 32 - 33 ) ( 2.5" ) +++++++++++++ All Metal ( 32 - 33 ) ( 2.75" )
ring #8 disc mode ( 24 - 25 ) ( 1.75" ) ++++++++++++ All Metal ( 25 ) ( 2" )
ring #9 disc mode ( 28 ) ( 2.25" ) ++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 27 - 28 ) ( 2.5" )
ring #10 disc mode ( 27 ) ( 2" ) +++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 27 ) ( 2.25" )
ring #11 disc mode ( 29 ) (2.25" ) ++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 29 ) ( 2.5" )
ring #12 disc mode ( 23 - 24 ) ( 1.75" ) ++++++++++++ All Metal ( 23 - 24 ) ( 2" )

14K chain section clasp area - disc mode ( Nothing ) +++++++++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( Barely picked it up with no ID at 1/16" )
gold nugget - disc mode ( 22 - 24 ) ( Barely at 1/16" ) ++++++++++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 23 ) ( 1/16" )
14K small clasp - disc mode ( 24 - 25 ) ( Barely at 1/16" ) +++++++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 22 - 24 ) ( 1/16" )
14K tear drop charm - disc mode ( 24 - 26 ) ( Barely at 1/16" ) +++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 25 ) ( 1/16" )
14K leaf charm - disc mode ( 21 - 23 ) ( Barely at 1/16" ) +++++++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 21 - 24 ) ( 1/16" )

Conclusions...

I've been running the gain on the F44 at 60% till now. Today it was at 30% the same as the F5.
The performance of the F44 dropped of immensely when the gain was lowered to 30%.

With the threshold set at zero on the F5 and both detectors set at 30% gain...
The winner of the 7" coil competition goes to the F5! :clapping:

Next up... The 7" Coil Three Ring Circus

Three rings.... one platinum and two 18K
You see what they look like and how much they weigh, but can you tell us how they will read out on the F5 & F44?
This will be a multiple choice "Ring IQ Test" :nerd:

HH

LW Steve

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Re: Stay tuned on this forum for the ultimate Gold Test
Posted by: LW Steve
Date: February 24, 2019 07:56AM
This Ring I.Q. Test is multiple choice (good luck)

1. In what year did the U.S.A. start putting purity stamps on the insides of rings? i.e. 14K - 18K etc.

A. 1896
B. 1900
C. 1906
D. 1910
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2. The most common alloy in .925 sterling silver is?

1. Nickel
2. Zinc
3. Copper
4. Tin
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3. Why are toe rings hard to find?

1. Because they are usually made of "pig iron" and are easily discriminated out.
2. Because of their snug fit they are not easily lost.
3. Because only relic hunters wear them and they don't go to the beach very often.
4. Because of their irregular shapes they can confuse a detector.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4. White gold rings are plated with this metal?
Otherwise the rings will eventually turn to a yellow sheen again once this plating disappears.

1. Palladium
2. Indium
3. Gallium
4. Rhodium
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5. 5000 years ago this culture would be the first to exchange rings of love.

1. The Egyptians
2. The Israelites
3. The Chinese
4. The Pygmie Tribes of Africa
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6. The main ingredient in a white gold ring other than gold itself is?

1. Silver
2. Nickel
3. Cobalt
4. Palladium
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7. These rings gave the appearance of being a solid ring, but was in reality two rings that could be separated so that each lover could own half of the ring.

1. Claddagh rings
2. Gimmel rings
3. Viking Lefsa rings
4. Plebian Love rings
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8. Platinum is how much heavier than gold?

1. 5%
2. 10%
3. 15%
4. 20%
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9. What is it that gives a stainless steel ring its protective resiliency?

1. Carbon
2. Tungsten Carbide
3. Titanium
4. Chromium
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10. Three rings... one is .950 platinum and the other two are 18K

This one is worth 6 points for a total of 15 possible on the test.

1. Chinese ring
2. Pt wedding band
3. Horseshoe ring

Where do these three read out on the F5 and F44?

F5 - - - - - 26? _____
- - - - - - - 30? _____
- - - - - - - 40? _______


F44 - - - - - 30? _______
- - - - - - - - - 35? ______
- - - - - - - - - 42? ______




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Re: Stay tuned on this forum for the ultimate Gold Test
Posted by: LW Steve
Date: March 03, 2019 01:46PM
Here are the answers...

1. In what year did the U.S.A. start putting purity stamps on the insides of rings? i.e. 14K - 18K etc.

1906
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2. The most common alloy in .925 sterling silver is?

Copper
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. Why are toe rings hard to find?

Because of their irregular shapes they can confuse a detector.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4. White gold rings are plated with this metal?
Otherwise the rings will eventually turn to a yellow sheen again once this plating disappears.

Rhodium
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5. 5000 years ago this culture would be the first to exchange rings of love.

The Egyptians
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6. The main ingredient in a white gold ring other than gold itself is?

Nickel
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7. These rings gave the appearance of being a solid ring, but was in reality two rings that could be separated so that each lover could own half of the ring.

Gimmel rings
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8. Platinum is how much heavier than gold?

10%
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9. What is it that gives a stainless steel ring its protective resiliency?

Chromium
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10. Three rings... one is .950 platinum and the other two are 18K

1. Chinese ring
2. Pt wedding band
3. Horseshoe ring

Where do these three read out on the F5 and F44?

F5 - - - - - 26? Pt wedding band
- - - - - - - 30? Horseshoe ring
- - - - - - - 40? Chinese ring


F44 - - - - - 30? Pt wedding band
- - - - - - - - - 35? Horseshoe ring
- - - - - - - - - 42? Chinese ring


The platinum wedding band reads out lower than both the 18K rings.
So small platinum wedding bands are going to read out very low, not much higher than iron!


HH

LW Steve

Re: Stay tuned on this forum for the ultimate Gold Test
Posted by: navydad5
Date: April 10, 2019 10:36PM
Where did you find the 4" concentric coil for $49.00?

navydad5

Send me your e-mail. I have the answer.
Posted by: Monte
Date: April 12, 2019 11:17AM
monte@ahrps.org

Use of the Fisher F44 and Teknetics Omega 8000 mainly with the 7" Concentric and 4" Concentric coils as well as the 5" DD.:thumbup:

Monte



"Your EYES ... the only 100% accurate form of Discrimination!"

Stinkwater Wells Trading Post
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503-481-8147
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