Findmall.com
 
 






Minelab X-TERRA Forum


Welcome! Log In Register
avatar
Hunting by ear..... Audio tones on the X-TERRA
Posted by: Digger
Date: December 06, 2010 06:42PM
Here is a link to my blog post on Minelab's Treasure Talk entitled Hunting by ear..... Audio tones on the X-TERRA
It includes some audio clips on how I can differentiate deeply buried iron from coins, using multiple tone mode, zero discrimination. All you need to do to access Minelab's Treasure Talk is to log in (register) with a username and password. For those new to Treasure Talk forum, you can read each post in it's etirety by clcking on the "more" above the words "Posted by".

http://www.minelab.com/usa/treasure-talk/hunting-by-ear-audio-tones-on-the-x-terra

Don't hesitate to ask questions or make comments. Thanks. HH Randy



You'll never know for sure......unless you dig it! HH "Digger"




After more than 46-years of detecting, and having owned dozens of different detectors, I've come to the conclusion that maintaining success in the field is largely dependent on three things..... choice of site, acquiring a proper skill set for the detector and the detector itself..... in that order. Research, practice and persistence. There are no substitutes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2011 08:10PM by Digger.

avatar
Re: Hunting by ear..... Audio tones on the X-TERRA
Posted by: TURNMASTER
Date: December 29, 2010 11:10AM
Very profesional

Jeff



TURNMASTER
Does "Just my two cents" have the same meaning on a treasure hunters forum?
X-Terra 705 & AT Pro

Oldest coin; 1895 Indian Head Penny

Re: Hunting by ear..... Audio tones on the X-TERRA
Posted by: goldseeker4000
Date: March 27, 2011 04:20PM
Digger, Got a question. With the audio sound while in AM when you hit a coin will it always be sharp or definate no matter the depth.? Will certain old coins produce low tones at any part of passing coil over it? How about gold rings or silver?

avatar
Re: Hunting by ear..... Audio tones on the X-TERRA
Posted by: TomB
Date: March 27, 2011 08:32PM
I very seldom use the 99 tone on my 70/705. Got stuck on two tones and three tones. Thanks to this post the next time I go swinging I'm going to try this. Thanks Randy. HH TomB



Smile...It may be your last one.
X-Terra 705
X-Terra 70 6" DD 18.75kHz coil
9" 7.5 Concentric coil....... 10.5 DD 7.5kHz coil
9" 3.0 kHz Concentric coil 5X10 DD 18.75 Elliptical coil
Pistol Probe pin pointer ....... Sun Ray Pro headphones
Gray Ghost headphones Doc's Swingy Thingy Times 2

avatar
Re: Hunting by ear..... Audio tones on the X-TERRA
Posted by: Digger
Date: March 27, 2011 09:00PM
If you are using multiple tones, the pitch of the sound will increase proportional to the conductivity of the target. The higher the conductivity number, the higher the pitch of the audio tone. In fact, there is one specific tone "tied" to each notch segment number. For example, a -8 will always produce a tone that is 130Hz and a 48 will produce a tone that is always 950Hz. The other 26 notch segments fall in between, but one separate tone is dedicated to each TID number.

Deeper coins will not produce as "loud" of audio response as shallower coins. But the tone and the "audio report" should be repeatable when swept from the same direction. The lowest TID I've dug on a coin was a 6 on an old US 3-cent nickel. The highest TID was a US silver dollar at 46. The TID or audio pitch will not be the same for a coin laying flat as it will a coin on edge. You can prove that (and learn what to listen for) with simple airtests of different coins at various distances from the coil. I do not believe that air test prove how deep a detector will detect in the dirt. But for audio reports and coil comparisons, air tests can be of benefit.

Silver rings usually produce a tone in the same range as silver coins of a similar size. I've dug gold rings with TID numbers as low as 4 and as high as 36. It all depends on the size of the ring, how worn it has become and the Kt of the gold. The smaller the ring, the lower it will read on the TID. It also depends on whether the band is broken or not. I have one ring that read a 22 when I dug it. It was an old class ring from the early 1900's, and the band had broken. When I passed the ring under the coil while holding the ends of the band together, the TID became a 32. HH Randy



You'll never know for sure......unless you dig it! HH "Digger"




After more than 46-years of detecting, and having owned dozens of different detectors, I've come to the conclusion that maintaining success in the field is largely dependent on three things..... choice of site, acquiring a proper skill set for the detector and the detector itself..... in that order. Research, practice and persistence. There are no substitutes.

avatar
Re: Hunting by ear..... Audio tones on the X-TERRA
Posted by: digmeahole
Date: March 28, 2011 03:03PM
Quote
Digger
If you are using multiple tones, the pitch of the sound will increase proportional to the conductivity of the target. The higher the conductivity number, the higher the pitch of the audio tone. In fact, there is one specific tone "tied" to each notch segment number. For example, a -8 will always produce a tone that is 130Hz and a 48 will produce a tone that is always 950Hz. The other 26 notch segments fall in between, but one separate tone is dedicated to each TID number.

Deeper coins will not produce as "loud" of audio response as shallower coins. But the tone and the "audio report" should be repeatable when swept from the same direction. The lowest TID I've dug on a coin was a 6 on an old US 3-cent nickel. The highest TID was a US silver dollar at 46. The TID or audio pitch will not be the same for a coin laying flat as it will a coin on edge. You can prove that (and learn what to listen for) with simple airtests of different coins at various distances from the coil. I do not believe that air test prove how deep a detector will detect in the dirt. But for audio reports and coil comparisons, air tests can be of benefit.

Silver rings usually produce a tone in the same range as silver coins of a similar size. I've dug gold rings with TID numbers as low as 4 and as high as 36. It all depends on the size of the ring, how worn it has become and the Kt of the gold. The smaller the ring, the lower it will read on the TID. It also depends on whether the band is broken or not. I have one ring that read a 22 when I dug it. It was an old class ring from the early 1900's, and the band had broken. When I passed the ring under the coil while holding the ends of the band together, the TID became a 32. HH Randy

Hi Digger! Great article:clapping:!! I have a question... Why does this only work in AM mode? and also is this a feature that was designed into the machine or a trick that you discovered? I tried it yesterday and it worked!!! Just wish it would work in other modes besides AM ....



Minelab E-Trac
Garrett Ace 350
Sun Ray X-1 Probe Modded in shaft with custom cover
RTG Kick it scoop
Koss UR-30
Cuff cover
NuShield DayVue
Modded Control box cover for usb access


Eastern Long Island NY

"Those willing to give up freedom for security deserve neither"
Ben Franklin

avatar
Re: Hunting by ear..... Audio tones on the X-TERRA
Posted by: Digger
Date: March 28, 2011 06:54PM
It isn't the All Metal aspect that makes it "work". It is the multiple tone functionality. Multiple tone mode works with any amount of discrimination. I frequently use a Pattern mode that only rejects notch segment -8 and notch segment +48. I built this Pattern in an effort to hear most of the targets, and still minimize the wrap around effect of deeply buried iron. When rejecting targets, each of the rejected targets cause the detector to blank out the Threshold and produce a null instead of a tone. Personally, I'd rather hear a tone than hear nothing at all. By hearing the tones, and knowing basically what notch each tone represents, I can separate multiple targets and evaluate most of them by their audio tone, without looking at the display. MHO HH Randy



You'll never know for sure......unless you dig it! HH "Digger"




After more than 46-years of detecting, and having owned dozens of different detectors, I've come to the conclusion that maintaining success in the field is largely dependent on three things..... choice of site, acquiring a proper skill set for the detector and the detector itself..... in that order. Research, practice and persistence. There are no substitutes.

Re: Hunting by ear..... Audio tones on the X-TERRA
Posted by: goldseeker4000
Date: March 30, 2011 11:52AM
Digger, will any coins, whether flat or on edge produce a negative TID. I unmasked all target ids on positive up to 48. So all neg tid are masked and also 48. Will I loose any coins under any situation by hunting this way?

Re: Hunting by ear..... Audio tones on the X-TERRA
Posted by: goldseeker4000
Date: March 30, 2011 12:37PM
Digger, I have seen this video for this Eastern European (I assume Russian or Ukrainian) company that has made an after market coil for the x-terra's called the NEL tornado 12x13 DD. do you know anything about this coil. I would be scared that it might permanantly damage the internal workings of my 705. What do you think of this coil and should x-terra users stay away from it? does Minelab have any plans to make a larger deeper seekig coil for the x-terra's for gold hunting.?

avatar
Re: Hunting by ear..... Audio tones on the X-TERRA
Posted by: Digger
Date: March 30, 2011 01:53PM
If your detector is properly set for NC, GB and Sensitivity, and there are no adjacent targets, all US coins will produce a + TID. In that scenerio, flat coins will repeat the TID, regardless of the direction the coil is swept. With coins on edge, the TID provided when sweeping across the greater mass surface will be a higher number than the TID provided by sweeping along the thinner "edge" (smaller surface to generate eddy currents) of the coin. Air testing can duplicate this process fairly accurately. HH Randy



You'll never know for sure......unless you dig it! HH "Digger"




After more than 46-years of detecting, and having owned dozens of different detectors, I've come to the conclusion that maintaining success in the field is largely dependent on three things..... choice of site, acquiring a proper skill set for the detector and the detector itself..... in that order. Research, practice and persistence. There are no substitutes.

avatar
Re: Hunting by ear..... Audio tones on the X-TERRA
Posted by: Digger
Date: March 30, 2011 02:00PM
There is quite a lengthy discussion about those coils currently ongoing here on the forum. I've seen the videos, know nothing about the company who is making them, know nothing about the coil other than what is shown on the video and am also apprehensive due to compatibility issues. I won't tell anyone what to buy, as far as accessories are concerned. But I will tell you that I am staying away from them for the reasons stated in my recent post to that string. .. http://www.findmall.com/read.php?55,1427229,1437557#msg-1437557

JMHO HH Randy



You'll never know for sure......unless you dig it! HH "Digger"




After more than 46-years of detecting, and having owned dozens of different detectors, I've come to the conclusion that maintaining success in the field is largely dependent on three things..... choice of site, acquiring a proper skill set for the detector and the detector itself..... in that order. Research, practice and persistence. There are no substitutes.

Re: Hunting by ear..... Audio tones on the X-TERRA
Posted by: goldseeker4000
Date: March 30, 2011 10:18PM
Digger, one more question. I was told that the frequincy on the x-terra is actually higher than what it actually is. For an example the Hf of 17.5 KHZ (or what ever it is) is closer to being around 60 or 70 KHZ. I was told because ofthe brain in the coil as well as the control box and cutting edge digital technology that they can acheive with the 705 Gold bug II and eureka gold catagory frequencies with a actual lower frq that is part of x-terra class HF. Is this true or bull crap. Can you explain . Also how does the x-terra 705 compete with any of the explorers by Minelab? In regards to sensitivity, depth, and discrimination.

avatar
Re: Hunting by ear..... Audio tones on the X-TERRA
Posted by: Digger
Date: March 31, 2011 11:03AM
Without having the capability of analyzing the frequency output of the coils, I have no way of knowing the exact frequency of the X-TERRA coils. Based on my discussions with Minelab duing the time I Field Tested the X-TERRA's, I would have to "go along" with what they told me....... LF is 3 kHz, MF is 7.5 kHz and HF is 18.75 kHz. The overlap (and comparison) that you refer to might be based on the fact that the Eureka can operate at 6.4 kHz, 20 kHz or 60 kHz. As you can see, two of those Eureka frequencies are closely replicated by the X-TERRA.

As to depth of detection compared to the Explorer series......when properly set-up, the X-TERRA can hold its own on raw depth. I find the HF coils are just as sensitive to small targets as any of the FBS detectors I've owned. As to discrimination.......... the FBS detectors provide simultaneous ferrous and non-ferrous target analysis and display both on the screen. The X-TERRA analyzes both the ferrous and conductive properties, but only displays one or the other. (negative notch number or positive notch number) To me, this doesn't make the FBS detectors capable of finding more good stuff. But it can make a difference in the amount of trash you dig to find it. JMHO HH Randy



You'll never know for sure......unless you dig it! HH "Digger"




After more than 46-years of detecting, and having owned dozens of different detectors, I've come to the conclusion that maintaining success in the field is largely dependent on three things..... choice of site, acquiring a proper skill set for the detector and the detector itself..... in that order. Research, practice and persistence. There are no substitutes.

Re: Hunting by ear..... Audio tones on the X-TERRA
Posted by: goldseeker4000
Date: April 04, 2011 12:32PM
Digger, yesterday I was out hunting for coins and I was working an old lot where a house was torn down. I was getting noises every where. I did what you said to ajust the sinsetivity. After noise cancel and ground balanced I went into sen and set it to 15 and raised and lowered the coil whil increasing the sen till it got unstable and chirpy, then backed it down till it was stable then proceeded to search. I was getting noises constantly and I had to really listen for a tone that did not turn into a blend of low tones, which I assume is called rap around. I got some signals that every once in a while when I would sweep over target would get a low tone then go back to higher good tone. I decided to dig and I would dig up a memorial lincoln pennie. I thought this is odd and I will have to be very careful. Why is a good target producing inconsistant low junk tones mixed in with a consistant good target tone. It makes me really unsure of good targets I might be walking over and deciding not to dig now. Also I opened up segments on program 2 that coins can read on as you had on your list, but I am concerned if it is still posible to miss any type of coins, old and deep because of useing program two. the only segments on program two that I have blocked on discrimination is all the neg numbers and 48. I have hunted 4 days now in areas that are old spots dating back at least to the early 40's and some daiting back to 1910 and all I am finding is new coins. What would cause this? Help

avatar
Re: Hunting by ear..... Audio tones on the X-TERRA
Posted by: Digger
Date: April 04, 2011 02:49PM
Sounds to me like the ground is full of ferrous trash. With the ferrous targets set to reject, you don't hear them. All you hear is silence when you pass the coil over them. Depending on your sweep speed (and your choice of coil) those pieces of trash can either skew your coin readings or mask out the coin all together. By the way, what coil are you using?

If you have all the ferrous (negative notches) rejected, the X-TERRA will "blank out" while the coil is passing over them. Setting a detector to reject certain properties does not mean the detector isn't detecting them. It is! The only thing that rejecting notches does for you is that you get a null sound instead of a tone. Personally, I'd rather hear the low tones of ferrous targets and let my ears sort them out. I think nulling leads us to believe that there is not much trash at a site, and we sweep too fast.

My suggestion would be to have lowered the Sensitivity before you do your ground balance. Try this........turn on the detector and put it into the All Metal mode. Set the Sensitivity to about halfway on the scale. Scan the soil to find a spot that is totally free of any metal objects. Hold the coil about a foot off the ground (with the coil flat to the ground as if you are detecting), and perform a Noise Cancel. After setting the Noise Cancel Channel, do your ground balance over that spot that is totally free of any metal. After you've set the proper NC and GB, you can turn up the Sensitivity to a point the detector either chatters when you sweep the coil, or becomes erratic. If you keep it in all metal or reject fewer targets, and use multiple tones, you will be able to tell if the problem you've experienced is due to an abundance of ferrous targets or if there is something else going on. Let us know what you find out. HH Randy



You'll never know for sure......unless you dig it! HH "Digger"




After more than 46-years of detecting, and having owned dozens of different detectors, I've come to the conclusion that maintaining success in the field is largely dependent on three things..... choice of site, acquiring a proper skill set for the detector and the detector itself..... in that order. Research, practice and persistence. There are no substitutes.

Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login