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Re: Disc/Depth
Posted by: cjc
Date: February 13, 2018 09:34PM
Steve I'll say this. It's true--the actual discriminate part of the CTX's process is the very last part of what's taking place--stage 5 and proportional to that ratio. But the existence of a small "firewall" line (s) of reject act to separate the signals focus from the ground--eliminating some noise and allowing smoother operation. It's not fair that you seize on the pulse comparison Im using for your sake--for explanation purposes. No, this is not true "signal balancing" but it is an effective approximation that will allow you to get more depth from the CTX--certainly more than ignoring the conditions and flicking the Auto switch. You could say that this approximation is taking place last stage--a simple audio clean up. This in and of itself allows more Sensitivity to be used. Didn't come to me in a dream--it works--instead of arguing theory--try it your self. I'm afraid Im done with the "straw man" thing for now. Just gives people the opportunity to dismiss my book "by it's cover" based upon half-baked arguments
cjc

Re: Disc/Depth
Posted by: cjc
Date: February 13, 2018 09:40PM
Steve I'll say this. It's true--the actual discriminate part of the CTX's process is the very last part of what's taking place--stage 5 and proportional to that ratio. But the existence of a small "firewall" line (s) of reject act to separate the signals focus from the ground--eliminating some noise and allowing smoother operation. It's not fair that you seize on the pulse comparison Im using for your sake--for explanation purposes. No, this is not true "signal balancing" but it is an effective approximation that will allow you to get more depth from the CTX--certainly more than ignoring the conditions and flicking the Auto switch. You could say that this approximation is taking place last stage--a simple audio clean up. This in and of itself allows more Sensitivity to be used. . Didn't come to me in a dream--it works--instead of arguing theory--try it your self. I'm afraid Im done with the "straw man" thing for now. Just gives people the opportunity to dismiss my book "by it's cover" based upon half-baked arguments. My book does not derive from theory.

cjc

Re: Disc/Depth
Posted by: cjc
Date: February 13, 2018 09:42PM
go hunt--more to be learned that way that arguing online.
cjc

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Re: Disc/Depth
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: February 13, 2018 10:29PM
Clive --

Thank you for your reply.

I apologize that you feel I am "arguing" with you. I tried to tell you in my post that this is the farthest thing from what I'm trying to do. The way I understand things is to pick apart details, until it's clear in my mind. And when I run into someone who clearly has more knowledge and experience than I do, I try to "pick" their brain, when the opportunity presents.

So, again, your words of "not fair" and "arguing" -- I think you misunderstand what I'm trying to do here. NOT "argue with you," but understand better. The old "iron sharpens iron" idea.

In your last response to me, I actually understand better now. The pulse achine "signal balancing" comparison/example is more for "illustrative" purposes than technical ones. And that a "firewall" of signal rejection between ground, and good target, is a far BETTER way to "smooth out your machine" as opposed to switching to Auto sensitivity in order to smooth the machine/achieve stability. That makes total sense. And then yes, with the reduction of ground noise BY DISCRIMINATING IT, I can now see that yes, this means you could raise sensitivity and not suffer from additional noise -- because you've DISCRIMINATED that noise.

So, you actually have cleared this up for me. That was what I was hoping for, in the first place -- and was the reason I pressed with additional questions. I knew if I asked enough questions, and if you were patient enough to persist THROUGH them, that the answer would emerge. And it did. So I thank you, and I apologize if you think I was trying to challenge you in an "argumentative way."

And by the way, as I said, I WILL be buying books from you...

Steve



Minelab CTX 3030
Minelab Equinox 800
Garrett ProPointer AT
Lesche hand digger
Lesche 38D Ground Shark "King of Spades"

Norman, OK

Re: Disc/Depth
Posted by: stephenscool
Date: February 14, 2018 05:12AM
From what I understand the more discrimination the quieter the detector allowing a higher sensitivity... but a much slower methodical sweep is needed. I will give it a go next time... will be interesting to see if the numbers still flop around like a wet fish on a target

Re: Disc/Depth
Posted by: IDXMonster
Date: February 14, 2018 04:24PM
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stephenscool
From what I understand the more discrimination the quieter the detector allowing a higher sensitivity... but a much slower methodical sweep is needed. I will give it a go next time... will be interesting to see if the numbers still flop around like a wet fish on a target

Bingo

Re: Disc/Depth
Posted by: stephenscool
Date: February 14, 2018 07:42PM
I suppose the real question is will a target on the edges or in the discriminated section give a signal that flip flops around or will it remain silent ? Will a target in the accepted area flop around but still give an inconsistent dig signal? Food beach setting if it will. Any target that gives even a fraction of a second good signal is a dig. ... everything else pass over. Or would a target in the rejected area still flop around with the occasional blip in the accepted area

Re: Disc/Depth
Posted by: IDXMonster
Date: February 14, 2018 08:42PM
That’s where you will have to decide what Sensitivity to run at the location you are. A terribly unstable machine is useless,as it not only can’t process out the interference but it also can’t give you a halfway reliable indication on a good target. This is where the lines blur...I preach STABILITY,others say to wind it up. When the interference and good targets all become intermingled,you as an operator don’t know what’s going on. This is the point at which you decide what to do...and that is to turn back the Sensitivity until you have a machine that is relaying interpretable information. Depth can’t be a primary concern if you don’t have reliable info,at that point NOTHING at ANY depth is making sense.
Targets can pop around on the screen as sensitivity increases,and again...you’ll have to find that happy medium that works for your sites so desirable targets don’t fall outside of your discrimination on a regular basis.
Generally speaking, I would rest the coil on the ground and turn up the sensitivity until it starts producing false numbers dancing around on the screen and audibly falsing. Then turn it down JUST until it doesn’t do that for 5 seconds straight. See if you can make that work...
Good luck man,you’ll get it tamed. It just takes a bit of time when the conditions are tough.

Re: Disc/Depth
Posted by: stephenscool
Date: February 14, 2018 10:11PM
Great thanks

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Re: Disc/Depth
Posted by: Architex
Date: February 15, 2018 01:10AM
Wow. One little question, whole lot of learning.



The real treasure is in the marketing.

XP Deus / CTX 3030 / Equinox 800

Re: Disc/Depth
Posted by: TrpnBils
Date: February 19, 2018 08:44PM
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Jason in Enid
That is true on all other discriminating VLF detectors, it is not true on FBS.

regular detectors show target's VDIs getting worse and worse as depth increases until it only sees it as iron, then nothing at all. This is why they say you "lose depth" as you increase disc.

I have never seen this happen with either the E-Trac or CTX I have owned. the FE side of the scale may increase a little but you always still have the same area of CO response. Once a conductive target is at the very threshold of detection depth you get a CO response with an iron "thunk" instantly after.

Jason - is the "thunk" also heard on the 3030? I was used to it on my Etrac, but thought that was one of the things that was "fixed" (like the silver warble) on the 3030 that everybody wished was still there.

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Re: Disc/Depth
Posted by: Jason in Enid
Date: February 19, 2018 08:55PM
Quote
TrpnBils



Jason - is the "thunk" also heard on the 3030? I was used to it on my Etrac, but thought that was one of the things that was "fixed" (like the silver warble) on the 3030 that everybody wished was still there.

Yeah, its still there but it has a tighter range. You have to be truly on the very edge of detection depth. Now, I don't know what situations affect this more/less because I typically always run combined. Somthing like conductive tones might not do it.

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