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CTX 3030 "Tradeoffs"
Posted by: cjc
Date: February 18, 2018 08:06AM
II/ CTX 3030 “Trade-offs”
As with any detector, getting the best performance from the CTX requires that the operator understand and mediate a number of “trade-offs”. These consist of a choice and one or more ways (adjustments or method changes) that allow you to affect that choice:
Noise / Stability
-can you hear and identify targets?
-is the machine getting as much depth as possible?
-choices: Auto Sens / Manual (reduce), Open or Closed Screen. (see below).

Auto Sensitivity versus Manual
Characteristics of Auto:
Plus: stable, less falses / cross-feeds / “clean” responses, better target ID
Minus: less depth / harder to acquire targets / less awareness of ground conditions & changes / may drop Sensitivity level too low in extreme ground ie. “ black sand.” / constant changes represent more for the machine to deal with.
Characteristics of Manual:
Plus: deeper / sharper responses / better “notch” capability for closed programs / gives you the ability to run at the “limit”/ gives you a better idea as to what the ground conditions require. / alerts you to more marginal signals
Minus: less stable / more falses, cross-feeds / needs more attention to coil control /
more likely to be too high for the conditions / more “partial” responses need to be checked.
Open Screen versus Closed Screen Methods
Characteristics of Open Screen:
Plus: generally deeper / more small & odd shaped targets , chains, earrings / allows “full” audio on responses (complete and accurate).
Minus: less stable / less distinct target sounds / requires more attention to coil control / more checking of cross-feeds, falses, “partial” target sounds.
Characteristics of Closed Screen:
Plus: more stable / allows higher Sensitivity levels / sharper audio / alerts you to good responses in trash.
Minus: less depth / “sluggish” responses / harder to acquire targets / some targets are only heard partially (bottlecaps for example).

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Re: CTX 3030 "Tradeoffs"
Posted by: Jason in Enid
Date: February 18, 2018 08:17AM
Good synopsis, but that needs a caveat as to the ground you hunt. For instance, in my ground, I have found NO improvement to running manual as opposed to auto+3 sensitivity. I have tried to "clean up" jumpy, iffy targets by switching to manual and never had a target come in better. Ever time it has only given me more erratic falsing.

On the Florida / Caribbean beaches I hunt though, I can run manual almost as high as it can go without problems, but even auto+3 gives much, much deeper depths than hunting my soil back home. If you can run mostly stable at very high manual settings, you should always take that option, but over all you are correct..... everything in this hobby is a tradeoff.

Re: CTX 3030 "Tradeoffs"
Posted by: IDXMonster
Date: February 18, 2018 09:08AM
Good stuff all around,and at the risk of sounding like an echo,Auto+3 is what I use unless I’m testing or in a really “rotten” area. 95% of the time in my southern WI soil,if I switch to Manual to “bring out” a target,it gets “worse”...stability of numbers whacked out,depth reading sporadic,extra chattering,etc. The 17” coil has proven to ME for 2 years straight that I can get those 8-11” coins while still running Auto+3 just because of the size of the field generated. Not bad for TURF! Strictly being a “silver coin hunter” I still have things to learn in order to keep my sites,and new ones,producing.
It just reinforces the old saying,”what works HERE might not be as good THERE”, for various reasons. But having a solid base to work from, in the understanding of what affects what, is incredibly important and well laid out above.

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Re: CTX 3030 "Tradeoffs"
Posted by: PryorCreekJoe
Date: February 18, 2018 10:44AM
Manual Sensitivity at 30, open screen (NO discrimination), 17 inch coil and extreme coil control is what I use to consistently dig deep coils. When I say deep, I am referring to 10+. I dug a war nickel just yesterday at 12 1/2 inches. That is my deepest nickel since I got the 3030 in 2012. I have dug several 13+ inch dimes and 1 15+ inch walker half. I use Black Widows headphone that block out 24 DB of ambient noise and have a booster circuit to amplify the signal. Coil control is the key to running the 3030 "hot" in my opinion. That and understanding what a weak deep silver chirp really sounds like. It is an art that very few 3030 owners take the time or have the patience to learn. To many just want to "cover the ground". Good write up Clive.

Re: CTX 3030 "Tradeoffs"
Posted by: IDXMonster
Date: February 18, 2018 03:27PM
Quote
PryorCreekJoe
Manual Sensitivity at 30, open screen (NO discrimination), 17 inch coil and extreme coil control is what I use to consistently dig deep coils. When I say deep, I am referring to 10+. I dug a war nickel just yesterday at 12 1/2 inches. That is my deepest nickel since I got the 3030 in 2012. I have dug several 13+ inch dimes and 1 15+ inch walker half. I use Black Widows headphone that block out 24 DB of ambient noise and have a booster circuit to amplify the signal. Coil control is the key to running the 3030 "hot" in my opinion. That and understanding what a weak deep silver chirp really sounds like. It is an art that very few 3030 owners take the time or have the patience to learn. To many just want to "cover the ground". Good write up Clive.

You’re digging “deep COILS” Joe? Like someone was hunting so deep they snapped it right off?:lol:
I know you meant COINS, and all that “upper level hunting” will come to me in time,it’s a matter of spending time doing it.

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Re: CTX 3030 "Tradeoffs"
Posted by: Jason in Enid
Date: February 18, 2018 04:26PM
Quote
IDXMonster

You’re digging “deep COILS” Joe? Like someone was hunting so deep they snapped it right off?:lol:
I know you meant COINS, and all that “upper level hunting” will come to me in time,it’s a matter of spending time doing it.

LOL, I had the same thought when I read "digging coils".

So youre still looking to develop the "upper level hunting" techniques? Have you figured out what the "almost unidentifiable coin" reads like yet? Well, that's my term for it anyway. I actually recorded one yesterday, and I'm praying the video shows it well (I havent watched the footage yet, and it can be hard to video a CTX screen on a sunny day). At first you think its an iron false. You don't get perfect repeatable "beeps", but it hits on most passes. The VDI is ugly; there is no red blob building with target trace. The FE-CO image goes all over the right side of the screen.... top to bottom, all over, random, barely-there hits like you see when you have true iron false. The big thing that should grab your attention is that the bottom-right is CLEAR. Its not indicating any iron. That empty iron corner with any amount of repeatable high conductive tone must be dug!

Yes, you will hit iron falses some times. You will also get old coins everyone else has missed. I had this twice yesterday, both times were 8 - 9 inch deep dimes (and about 12 inches away from each other), and likely almost on edge. They were both about 4 - 5 inches away from the target pinpoint which is what angled coins do. I never got a double hit from them so I don't think they were fully up/down on edge.

ETA - I just previewed the vid on my camera and it was a decent recording! I'll have it up on youtube in a few days .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2018 04:46PM by Jason in Enid.

Re: CTX 3030 "Tradeoffs"
Posted by: IDXMonster
Date: February 18, 2018 05:27PM
Jason,nope. Haven’t gotten there yet. I’ve been fortunate enough to just keep on truckin’ till I get a signal that is better than what you describe. Problem is...most of my places are chock full-o nuthin’ anymore! I was lucky to get a park permission here in town last fall that produced 22 or 23 silver coins in the last month of hunting. I’ve got a couple/few GREAT old sites that are from the mid 1800s. There are some really terrible signals in there which I’m going to have to buckle down and dig this year. Last year I had a few physical glitches that made me not want to dig anything that didn’t have a 75% chance of being good,as pain was involved. With the “no iron indication in the bottom” trick,I may be able to harvest some unbelievable coins,which will ease any pain somewhat!
Thanks for the tip,I’ll be looking for that video!:smile:

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Re: CTX 3030 "Tradeoffs"
Posted by: PryorCreekJoe
Date: February 18, 2018 06:57PM
Quote
Jason in Enid


You’re digging “deep COILS” Joe? Like someone was hunting so deep they snapped it right off?:lol:
I know you meant COINS, and all that “upper level hunting” will come to me in time,it’s a matter of spending time doing it.

LOL, I had the same thought when I read "digging coils".

So youre still looking to develop the "upper level hunting" techniques? Have you figured out what the "almost unidentifiable coin" reads like yet? Well, that's my term for it anyway. I actually recorded one yesterday, and I'm praying the video shows it well (I havent watched the footage yet, and it can be hard to video a CTX screen on a sunny day). At first you think its an iron false. You don't get perfect repeatable "beeps", but it hits on most passes. The VDI is ugly; there is no red blob building with target trace. The FE-CO image goes all over the right side of the screen.... top to bottom, all over, random, barely-there hits like you see when you have true iron false. The big thing that should grab your attention is that the bottom-right is CLEAR. Its not indicating any iron. That empty iron corner with any amount of repeatable high conductive tone must be dug!

Yes, you will hit iron falses some times. You will also get old coins everyone else has missed. I had this twice yesterday, both times were 8 - 9 inch deep dimes (and about 12 inches away from each other), and likely almost on edge. They were both about 4 - 5 inches away from the target pinpoint which is what angled coins do. I never got a double hit from them so I don't think they were fully up/down on edge.

ETA - I just previewed the vid on my camera and it was a decent recording! I'll have it up on youtube in a few days .

Spelling is not my strong suit guys. LOL Glad I could give you guys a laugh though.
On detecting I am always working on my skills. I will never come to the conclusion that I am at the upper level of hunting but I do know that I can dig some deep deep coins. Of the 87 silver coins that I dug last year, more than half were over the 9 inch mark. That in my mind is pretty good, not great but pretty good. I dug one of those hits today that only sounded off one direction. On an east west swing, it would only hit on the east swing, not the west. Nothing on the north south either. It was mostly an iron tone but chirping silver enough to dig. It said that it was 12 inches deep, which for me, if I get the chirp and a depth over 8 inches-I DIG. Like yours, it was in the side of the hole at an angle. A lot of those silvers last year were angled or completely on edge. My favorite was a Merc straight up and down that I dug with on of our forum members Dec 9. He is the one who measured it. It's chirp was enough for me to dig and it was on a site that you only dig if you are reasonably sure it is a coin. Excavating a coin on this site sometimes takes 15 minutes and a lot of sweat. These kinds of sites foster building good techniques for sure!

Joe

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Re: CTX 3030 "Tradeoffs"
Posted by: Jason in Enid
Date: February 18, 2018 07:07PM
Quote
PryorCreekJoe

....... I dug one of those hits today that only sounded off one direction. On an east west swing, it would only hit on the east swing, not the west. Nothing on the north south either. It was mostly an iron tone but chirping silver enough to dig. It said that it was 12 inches deep, which for me, if I get the chirp and a depth over 8 inches-I DIG. Like yours, it was in the side of the hole at an angle. A lot of those silvers last year were angled or completely on edge. My favorite was a Merc straight up and down that I dug with on of our forum members Dec 9. He is the one who measured it. It's chirp was enough for me to dig and it was on a site that you only dig if you are reasonably sure it is a coin. Excavating a coin on this site sometimes takes 15 minutes and a lot of sweat. These kinds of sites foster building good techniques for sure!

Joe

Wow, I don't think I have ever stopped to dig a target that responded like that. Too bad there's no video of it, I would love to see and hear it before it was dug. You did hit on a good point there, depth is a big factor too. I forgot to mention that before... the depth guage on my last digs was jumping from 7 - 9 inches so I knew it was going to be deep. I have actually had some nice finds from digging any repeatable signal that had a deep indicator. The tiny aluminum and brass bits are what screw me up there.

So.... a single direction only hit....with a deep depth indicator. I'm going to start paying more attention for a target like that. I have always assumed they were iron, but if the iron corner is empty? It's something to try!

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Re: CTX 3030 "Tradeoffs"
Posted by: PryorCreekJoe
Date: February 18, 2018 07:15PM
Quote
IDXMonster
Jason,nope. Haven’t gotten there yet. I’ve been fortunate enough to just keep on truckin’ till I get a signal that is better than what you describe. Problem is...most of my places are chock full-o nuthin’ anymore! I was lucky to get a park permission here in town last fall that produced 22 or 23 silver coins in the last month of hunting. I’ve got a couple/few GREAT old sites that are from the mid 1800s. There are some really terrible signals in there which I’m going to have to buckle down and dig this year. Last year I had a few physical glitches that made me not want to dig anything that didn’t have a 75% chance of being good,as pain was involved. With the “no iron indication in the bottom” trick,I may be able to harvest some unbelievable coins,which will ease any pain somewhat!
Thanks for the tip,I’ll be looking for that video!:smile:

Hey Monster,
I had rotator cuff surgery on my left (shovel arm) shoulder in 2014 and on my right (swinging arm) in 2016. Rehabbing the right shoulder with the 3030 was a challenge that really help make my swing so much better than it used to be. And the silver production really improved too. I know what you mean about only digging if almost positive it is a coin, and silver at that.

PCJ

Re: CTX 3030 "Tradeoffs"
Posted by: cjc
Date: February 18, 2018 07:24PM
Those are some extreme settings, Joe--kind of what the UK hunters talk about "winkleing" coins through the noise. Certainly agree with you about the coil control. I have a sense though that like a pulse, a high gain signal will return a cleaner response with something to seperate the ground signal from where your targets are--up in the plus zeros. Even a single disc line. Probably make the coil control task easier. This works well for me in salt and I've gotten a few very deep rings with the 17" coil that way.
cjc

Re: CTX 3030 "Tradeoffs"
Posted by: cjc
Date: February 18, 2018 07:26PM
Great info, Jason.
cjc

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Re: CTX 3030 "Tradeoffs"
Posted by: PryorCreekJoe
Date: February 18, 2018 07:43PM
Quote
Jason in Enid


....... I dug one of those hits today that only sounded off one direction. On an east west swing, it would only hit on the east swing, not the west. Nothing on the north south either. It was mostly an iron tone but chirping silver enough to dig. It said that it was 12 inches deep, which for me, if I get the chirp and a depth over 8 inches-I DIG. Like yours, it was in the side of the hole at an angle. A lot of those silvers last year were angled or completely on edge. My favorite was a Merc straight up and down that I dug with on of our forum members Dec 9. He is the one who measured it. It's chirp was enough for me to dig and it was on a site that you only dig if you are reasonably sure it is a coin. Excavating a coin on this site sometimes takes 15 minutes and a lot of sweat. These kinds of sites foster building good techniques for sure!

Joe

Wow, I don't think I have ever stopped to dig a target that responded like that. Too bad there's no video of it, I would love to see and hear it before it was dug. You did hit on a good point there, depth is a big factor too. I forgot to mention that before... the depth guage on my last digs was jumping from 7 - 9 inches so I knew it was going to be deep. I have actually had some nice finds from digging any repeatable signal that had a deep indicator. The tiny aluminum and brass bits are what screw me up there.

So.... a single direction only hit....with a deep depth indicator. I'm going to start paying more attention for a target like that. I have always assumed they were iron, but if the iron corner is empty? It's something to try!

That's what so good about the Forums, one idea fosters another, which leads to another. We need to thank Clive for starting this post. I usually just hunt by tone and if I get the right tone, I look at the depth meter, then I look at the FE-CO numbers and screen. If all coincide, I dig. Don't give up on a signal with iron in the bottom right, I have plenty of rusty dimes and quarters that came out of the same hole with a big ole nail or bolt.

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Re: CTX 3030 "Tradeoffs"
Posted by: Jason in Enid
Date: February 18, 2018 07:47PM
yes, so have I, but I havent dug those unless it had a strong coin hit as well.

Re: CTX 3030 "Tradeoffs"
Posted by: cjc
Date: February 19, 2018 05:33PM
This is what I'm liking about the Equinox. Many of the suggestions in my CTX book are now part of the software. For example using some disc to promote better audio target assignment. (an audio option in the 50 tone mode "Tone Pitch Gap"),- forget Auto Sens except for worst case--in salt water, anyhow (Eq has none like they recognised just how much processing power it takes up), and the general Signal Balancing approach (Low Transmit Power in Beach 2 and in black sand)--all things that take a while to learn are needed with the CTX. Auto might seem okay until you come up against the big coil's signal to noise ratio...
cjc



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2018 05:42PM by cjc.

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