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Stupid CTX3030 question
Posted by: VanillahGarillah
Date: May 01, 2018 06:38PM
I’ve had the CTX3030 for about 10 days and I’ve used it probably six of the 10 days. I bought and read Andy Sabisch’s book on the machine and I’ve reviewed several target ID tables, spreadsheets and charts. Now the stupid question: Why shouldn’t I create a pattern to eliminate all targets that register above FE13 and below FE11, leaving a few blocks open at FE1 and CO 40-45 or so for silver dollars? Most of the patterns and advice seem to block FE at the 26 or 27 line. Would anyone dig a target that came up 17.25 or 15.06 or 20.40 or 9.30? I must be missing something or I’m putting way too much faith in the FE12 line +/- 1.

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Re: Stupid CTX3030 question
Posted by: mascard1
Date: May 01, 2018 06:43PM
I have dug DEEP Wheats that came in 1-29

Re: Stupid CTX3030 question
Posted by: trojdor
Date: May 01, 2018 07:14PM
It's actually a very good question;

Depends on how much iron trash is in your ground.
If zero iron, then what you propose might work OK...but I've never seen a zero iron site, so I wouldn't know.

In trashy locations...(AKA the 'real world'), then, as you yourself stated, "I'm putting way too much faith in the FE12 line."
Iron will 'pull' the FE ID off of the 12 line. The closer/bigger the iron, the more it will pull it down toward the bottom of the screen.

"Would anyone dig a target that came up 17.25 or 15.06 or 20.40 or 9.30?"
Yes, absolutely! (Especially that 20.40 signal.)

Use the existing Programs in Andy's book until you got enough time on it to be familiar with where things hit...especially in your areas.
Only then should you start changing things.

Good luck, and HH,
:)
mike

PS - Aluminum trash will also pull (high conductor) CO ID's left, as well...same thing applies to blindly trusting the CO numbers in high aluminum trash...don't.
(Although...in all fairness...CO numbers tend to be more reliable than FE #s)



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2018 07:21PM by trojdor.

Re: Stupid CTX3030 question
Posted by: sube
Date: May 01, 2018 08:38PM
If you can run ferrous coin it places almost all targets on the 12 line non-ferrous with a coin well place it on the 12 line but lower or higher depending on the size of the non-ferrous trash and conductivity of it . Iron with coin will lower the #s but still places it on the 12 line if the iron is bigger than the return signal of the non-ferrous target it well only show iron in the bottom right corner and nothing on the 12 line .

Now high trash low trash and ground coin with iron well all deviate from the 12 line giving a 20.45 or 27 .45 high conductor quarter 14.13 15.12 low conductors nickel not like ferrous coin which separates the iron signal from the target so ferrous coin would be the mode to use if you can .

However lower conductors nickel and down mixed iron or covered by iron to a point before trace is lost will down read like high trash low trash and ground coin giving #s like 14.08 or 15.09 but these well be silent but the curser with red well show at the #s I gave. If the audio is there with the nickel and iron it well place it on the 12 line if no audio then it well be close to the 12 line .

Look at it this way high trash low trash and ground coin all deviate from the 12 line with iron all modes place non-ferrous with non-ferrous on the 12 line only ferrous coin with iron is capable of putting most targets on the 12 line hence ferrous coin separation .
It's not the non-ferrous targets doing this it's the iron which creates this problem . :thumbup: sube



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2018 08:41PM by sube.

Re: Stupid CTX3030 question
Posted by: trojdor
Date: May 01, 2018 09:11PM
sube,
Good point about the different modes/effects...I so seldom run FC I wasn't even thinking about it.
:thumbup:



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2018 09:13PM by trojdor.

Re: Stupid CTX3030 question
Posted by: VanillahGarillah
Date: May 02, 2018 10:28AM
Trojdor,

What would you expect to find if you dug that 20.40 target?

Re: Stupid CTX3030 question
Posted by: VanillahGarillah
Date: May 02, 2018 10:34AM
Quote
sube
If you can run ferrous coin it places almost all targets on the 12 line non-ferrous with a coin well place it on the 12 line but lower or higher depending on the size of the non-ferrous trash and conductivity of it . Iron with coin will lower the #s but still places it on the 12 line if the iron is bigger than the return signal of the non-ferrous target it well only show iron in the bottom right corner and nothing on the 12 line .

Now high trash low trash and ground coin with iron well all deviate from the 12 line giving a 20.45 or 27 .45 high conductor quarter 14.13 15.12 low conductors nickel not like ferrous coin which separates the iron signal from the target so ferrous coin would be the mode to use if you can .

However lower conductors nickel and down mixed iron or covered by iron to a point before trace is lost will down read like high trash low trash and ground coin giving #s like 14.08 or 15.09 but these well be silent but the curser with red well show at the #s I gave. If the audio is there with the nickel and iron it well place it on the 12 line if no audio then it well be close to the 12 line .

Look at it this way high trash low trash and ground coin all deviate from the 12 line with iron all modes place non-ferrous with non-ferrous on the 12 line only ferrous coin with iron is capable of putting most targets on the 12 line hence ferrous coin separation .
It's not the non-ferrous targets doing this it's the iron which creates this problem . :thumbup: sube

This explains a lot as I've been hunting with high trash and ground-coin settings. My yard has a lot of "farm debris" like square nails, old metal squeeze tubes, broken tractor parts, welding rod remnants and foil tops (like Yoplait-type foil). Maybe I should switch to ferrous coin and go over the ground again.

Re: Stupid CTX3030 question
Posted by: trojdor
Date: May 02, 2018 01:56PM
Quote
VanillahGarillah
Trojdor,

What would you expect to find if you dug that 20.40 target?

You never know for sure...
I've dug several nice silvers that were pulled down to the 20.40 range in iron trash.
I've also dug many Indian heads and wheats that were about 17.38 to 17.40 or so...depending on the adjacent trash.

But again, as sube correctly pointed out, that depends on the mode (and ground) you hunt in.
I hunt primarily in high trash and GC modes.
(If I hunt in FC in my mineralized ground, most iron ID's as coins...and it's really irritating.)

When I see a conductive of 40, that's a reason to dig. I prefer not to pass over targets that might be good.
I'd have to have nothing but a pinpoint trace blob on the bottom (iron) line for me not to dig.
Tip: turn on and use target trace and pinpoint trace (aka target trace pinpoint)

Since I hunt for old silver, my philosophy is this:
I look for reasons TO dig...as opposed to looking for reasons NOT to dig.
I'll dig more trash than some people, but I'll also dig more silver. YMMV

With the 'hunted out' states of most of our parks, the majority of targets left are 'iffy' deeps, and/or coin and trash co-locates (where the ID's are shifted).
The easy, obvious, 'engraved invitation' type of targets are very few and far between nowadays. (Unless you're only looking for recent drop clad in a tot lot.)
For me, personally...looking for reasons not to dig is a formula for failure.

mike



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2018 02:02PM by trojdor.

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Re: Stupid CTX3030 question
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: May 02, 2018 06:20PM
That's an excellent post, trojdor.

So, I presume you hunt largely open screen, 50 tones, and only discriminating some part of the lower portion of the screen, OR, you hunt combined, and set your ferrous bin to some part of the lower portion of the screen. Which do you do, and "how much" of that lower portion of the screen do you discriminate -- or set as your iron bin?

Steve



Minelab CTX 3030
Minelab Equinox 800
Garrett ProPointer AT
Lesche hand digger
Lesche 38D Ground Shark "King of Spades"

Norman, OK

Re: Stupid CTX3030 question
Posted by: trojdor
Date: May 04, 2018 01:10PM
Quote
sgoss66
That's an excellent post, trojdor.
Steve

Thanks, Steve. :thumbup:

At the risk of hijacking this thread;
I hunt with primarily two programs...both largely open (although one much tighter than the other), with the alternate disc screens on both completely open except for the bottom line disc'd out.
User button assigned to switch to last program/profile.

Ironically one is setup for 50 tones, and the other is combined.
One is High trash separation, with Fast on, Deep off.
Other is GC separation with Fast off, Deep on.
Usually have Seawater checked, since my ground is both mineralized and has some salinity. (Seawater seems to help with stability...a little.)

That give me effectively 4 modes to hunt in that I can fast switch to. (two modes with two screens each)

However, as some of my older post hint at, I will also lock pinpoint and hunt in all metal pinpoint trace if I'm looking for the really fringe stuff.
It's much harder to use, but it's deeper, less sensitive to noise, ID multiple targets better, and forces you to listen to the quality of the sound the targets make.
(But it's sort of the ultimate 'advanced' technique...it's definitely not for beginners, or the faint of heart. ;)

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Re: Stupid CTX3030 question
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: May 06, 2018 01:16AM
Very interesting, trojdor. Thanks for the detailed info!

That pinpoint technique? Hmm...

I'm going to think on that...might be interesting on the "right site..."

Steve



Minelab CTX 3030
Minelab Equinox 800
Garrett ProPointer AT
Lesche hand digger
Lesche 38D Ground Shark "King of Spades"

Norman, OK

Re: Stupid CTX3030 question
Posted by: trojdor
Date: May 06, 2018 03:08AM
Quote
sgoss66
Very interesting, trojdor. Thanks for the detailed info!
That pinpoint technique? Hmm...
I'm going to think on that...might be interesting on the "right site..."
Steve

Steve,
You're most welcome.
Sube and I have both talked a lot about that technique over the years...

You might want to check these threads for a little more background info:
https://www.findmall.com/read.php?86,2307866,page=1
https://www.findmall.com/read.php?86,2309064,2309126#msg-2309126
https://www.findmall.com/read.php?86,2304011,2304460#msg-2304460

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Re: Stupid CTX3030 question
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: May 06, 2018 11:40PM
trojdor --

Will do. Thanks for the links...I'll be reading through them momentarily...

Steve



Minelab CTX 3030
Minelab Equinox 800
Garrett ProPointer AT
Lesche hand digger
Lesche 38D Ground Shark "King of Spades"

Norman, OK

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Re: Stupid CTX3030 question
Posted by: Jason in Enid
Date: May 07, 2018 03:40PM
Quote
sgoss66
Very interesting, trojdor. Thanks for the detailed info!

That pinpoint technique? Hmm...

I'm going to think on that...might be interesting on the "right site..."

Steve

Yeah, thats the adaptation to the beach hunters' "reverse discrimination" method.

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Re: Stupid CTX3030 question
Posted by: sgoss66
Date: May 07, 2018 10:38PM
I have HEARD some beach hunters talk about that, Jason, but I never knew quite what they were doing, when saying they were "reverse discrimination hunting..."

Steve



Minelab CTX 3030
Minelab Equinox 800
Garrett ProPointer AT
Lesche hand digger
Lesche 38D Ground Shark "King of Spades"

Norman, OK

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