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Beginners Luck [extremely long post]

Gene

New member
In August 2004 I came here in search of Sovereign information.
Through a series of emails with Rick and Art I was loaded down
with all kinds of great information. Finally got a XS2 with 8"
and 10" coils this past April. Sent it to David at Dixie to do
his mod and to check it out as it looked to be in kind of rough
shape. My first hunt was last Saturday. Used to a single tone
machine. Went to a field that has produced gold jewelry on a
regular basis in the past. Set up the machine and started hunting.
Dead silence for 15 minutes. This is not good. Good thing I have
another detector in the trunk. Checked it out and it was set like
it should be. This time though I put the sensitivity up to around
10 o'clock and got stable operation. Disc and notch down at their
lowest possible level. Shortly thereafter I got my first signal.
A balled up piece of aluminum can. Thought it wouldn't hit that small
stuff. Saw some gum wrapper foil on top of the ground and it ignored
that just fine. This place has tons of gum wrapper foil as my other
detectors have found. Then it happened. My second signal.....14K
charm about penny size. Only about 2" deep but what a hit. A deaf
man would have heard that one. No more thinking about the detector
in the trunk. The remainder of the 3 hour hunt was very interesting
as well. Heart shaped charm and a gold earring...suspect they are not
real. A nice silver inlaid mans ring. Looks like a wheat penny about
8 inches deep. Then for one of my biggest surprises. Thought I had
not pinpointed well as I couldn't find my target in the hole but my
pinpointer found it right along the side. Just over 6" deep, the
length of my 3 in one digger,was a wheat penny completely vertical.
And it was a good hit. 194- something.
Dug everything that didn't bounce too much and that didn't
have a negative figure on the meter. Sorry this is so terribly long.
Didn't know a good way to shorten it up and say what I wanted to.
Rick and Art have made me one happy camper. After only 3 hours I
like it. I really like it. Never did get a manual for it but I don't
need it with the "Rickart" or the "Artrick" manual I have made up
from past emails. Not sure what to call it. Hardest part is to say
which name to put first. These are two great guys in my opinion and
I just wanted them to know that I am putting would they have told me
to good use. Can't hardly wait until I really know what I am doing.
I do believe that these guys are going to make me dangerous.
 
Don't let the long post bother you. Make it as long as you need to to get things said.

Glad you like it. Gets easier and better the more you use it.

Give Rick most of the credit.......
He gives better in depth explanations than I do. Mine tend to be a little on the fast and dirty side.

He has also used more different detectors , coils, meters, and hunted in more places than I have.

We don't always agree on everything, but it all goes with the game.

Again,.....glad you are happy. It gets better.

HH

Art
 
Really surprised me the first time out Art. From what I have heard
it should have been kind of frustrating. Kind of hit it off right
from the start though. Good information on what to do before I
headed out made all the difference. Had a couple of signals that
were very weak and not much stronger in pinpoint. Dug for a little bit and
then let them go. Lost the signal completely as I was digging
down. Wasn't sure what to do on those and thought my time would be
best spent on the better signals in the beginning. But yes, I am
very happy with it. Thought I might be looking for a new detector
but if Saturday is any indication of what is to come I have found
my new detector, my XS2.

HH

Gene
 
If you have a weak hit that is a bit too loose in both disc and all metal that disappears in the first inch or two, then it is usually a really small piece of trash. The little pieces of the bottom ring on a screwcap will do that. Also small bits of lead.

If you lose it after a few inches, then it could have been a small edge target, possibly a coin. Disturbing the ground will cause you to lose it.

Same for a deeper hit. Disturbing the ground will cause you to lose it.

If you don't have a decent probe, then get one.

I have a trick that I can do on those weak shallow ones if I feel that's what it is other than trying to judge width . Must say at this point that it takes a little practice to tell the difference between a weak shallow and a weak deep one.

Anyway..........
Other than cutting a shallow plug to see if it dissapears.......
I use a Uniprobe. More sensitive to small trash than the Sov.
A really weak hit is pinpointed, then checked with the Uni. If the Uni can see it, then it's a small shallow bit of trash.
If the Uni can't see it then it's deep and worth checking out.....particularly if the tone on the Sov tends to tease up quite a bit.

Some of my methods some of the time.

Everybody has their own way. Not saying mine is any better than anyone elses.

You will develope your own sense of values and tactics.

HH
Art
 
Now there is something else I can put in my bag of tricks.
Thanks Art. Just have a handheld probe for now. One of the
signals I remember was gone after a couple of inches. Seems
like another one I had was down around 6 inches before I lost
the signal but dug a couple more inches. Maybe should have dug
a little more on that one. The field I hunted on last Saturday
has been in use for over 60 years. It's anybodys guess what could
be buried there. Thanks for sharing this tip with me Art. I will
try and put it to good use.

HH

Gene
 
May not work with probes that are not as sensitive as a Uni. Most won't pick up the tiny trash.

Generally the S1 from Sunray is the preferred Sov probe. Just a small coil and a switchbox that hooks right on the Sov. Don't know how it compares to the Sov for sensitivity on really small shallow junk.

Uni is generally hotter than the rest, but it is a stand alone PI unit, and will pick up anything (no discrimination). Can be tricky around trash, where the S1 uses the Sov for discrimination..........you don't chase nails in the hole.

Many ways to do things. Depends on when and where.

HH
 
I am glad to hear you had some success the first time out. The more you use it the better you will get and you will see some deeper and better finds.
I see you got the silent search done on your Sovereign, it is good for some places i have seen, but to me the threshold tells me more info that will help get the deeper coins. I use both the silent search and the threshold on my GT as there is a switch for this so I can change any time I want.
Now some of the deeper targets I find may not give the correct tones or meter reading, but I can tell they are deep and the tones are trying to climb along with the meter. Sometimes they will be correct only for a split second, sometimes not. I will go to pinpoint and do my 90 degrees turn so i know I have the target right under the center of the coil and dig. I use the S1 probe of Sun Rays and i have the Uniprobe too I use when I use a detector I don't have a Sun Ray probe with and like Art says it is the best hand held probe and the most sensitive, but it also is not a disc probe so it get all metal. This for me is bad as many of my areas I detect have a lot of iron and take longer to find the good target. I find the Sun Ray S1 probe being it is a disc probe i can go into the hole in all metal pinpoint and get close to the target and switch to disc and tell if that iffy target is a good one or bad. Either probe is good and like I say if I cant have my Sun Ray prob than the Uniprobe would be the one i would want as these probes make a difference if you find a deep target or not or even as you will see those at a angle will be off to the side of the hole and with out a good probe you may not find it or lose it completely.I know because of the S1 probe I find more as I can find the targets faster and even those that are within a few inches I can use the probe and find them with the probe so i don't even have to dig a plug. I know without the S1 probe I don't think I would have many of the nice coins I have in my collection.
Keep us all informed on how you are doing and what you are learning about this detector, good for us all to see what you are doing.

Good luck and I too like to read Arts and F.O.D. post plus a few others and like Art says we may not agree all the time, but we agree to disagree too as it keeps us on our toes.

Rick
 
Thanks for the info Rick. Just thought I would post yesterday saying
that I am finally using what I learned from here last year. I know
that it takes a lot of time to answer all of these questions and
sometimes answering the same questions over and over again. I want
you to know that I really do appreciate your taking the time to
explain to me how the Sovereign works. I know it's kind of early to say
but I believe the XS2 is going to be a good detector for me.
It's different than what I am used to but different in a good way.

Good hunting to you...........Gene
 
Many ways to do things. You're sure right about that one Art.
Thanks for the probe rundown. That'll be coming up on my wish
list shortly I suspect. The Sovereign sure surprised me last
Saturday. Kind of thought that I might not like it since it was
so much different than what I am used to but I got kind of
comfortable with it. Sometimes I would comment on what I would
find out loud I was so surprised. Guess my next thing to do is
give my XS2 a name. Don't want anyone to think that I go around talking to myself.
Thanks again for your help in choosing this detector and helping
me understand how to use it. It's a good thing.....HH.....Gene
 
That's what makes it difficult or easy to learn a Sov, or if you will love it or hate it.

Those who pick one up and expect it to work like a different model detector get overwhelmed immediately.

They want to run right out and hunt, expecting that it should just jump right up and tell them what to dig.

Just don't work that way....you can see that for yourself.

Nobody can give you a "majic" list of settings. It's something you have to figure out yourself.

Just take your time and play with it as you get used to the different sound patterns in relation to the coil movement. It will tell you a lot.

Don't become too "meter dependent". The meter (if you have one) just supplies additional info. How much value you put on the meter is going to depend on the particular situation at hand. You will figure out when you want to look at it, and when you should not.

HH
Art
 
I expected something different with the Sovereign and I got it.
From the first sound I heard in the field I decided that I was
going to listen first and then look at the meter. Even after
just the 3 hours I used it there were signals that I thought
were foil or a rectangular tab and when I dug them they were.
Not all the time but I can see that I am going to catch on to
the Sovereign language in short order. I had the discrimination
and notch down to minimum. Listening, looking at the meter, and
then digging all signals that didn't bounce a great amount or have
a big negative number. I have the standard meter calibrated for
550. Mostly a jewelry hunter myself hunting modern sports fields.
The meter came in handy for not digging the iron as I had the mod
done where I am running with no threshold sound. A lot of guys I
know are dependent entirely on the meter...I am not one of them.
I will trust my ears first....HH........Gene
 
Which meter do you have, Gene?
I have XS2 on my 2a and the Elite meter on the GT. Both are 550's, but they respond at different speeds. The XS2 meter is a great deal faster, and I can squeeze more target info out of watching how the numbers run.

I know that most don't like it this way, so you can do whatever you feel is right for you.

You can bring your threshold back to see if you are nulling from iron, or if you need to slow your sweep or decrease your sensitivity setting. BBS works best at a stable threshold, but you cant tell it's stable if you cant hear it.

Only problem with turning the threshold back up in silent search is that you will get blasted when you switch to all metal.

You may choose to periodicaly turn the threshold back up long enough to be sure that your sensitivity and sweep speed are about right, then turn the threshold back down.

Will depend on how consistent the conditions are at any particular location.

HH
 
I believe I have the XS2 meter Art. Got the XS2 Pro with 8" and 10"
BBS coils. Don't have it with me right now to look at.
Yeah, will have to experiment with the threshold like you say.
Glad you told me. So new with the Sovereign maybe I will keep
from changing too many things until I get some more time on the machine.
From what I have heard I feel lucky that I did as well as I did the
first time out. Didn't want to rush though. Just took my time and
tried to do the right thing the best that I knew at the moment.
Having copied old posts from here gave me a good idea of what to
expect before I even set foot in the field. That was a big plus.
Can't wait until I really get to know it better. I feel that this
detector can really hunt.......HH.....Gene
 
A note about the meter........
You probably have the XS2 (look at face plate). The Elite meter says "Sovereighn" on it.

The XS2 meter can get pretty ratty if you get into a very noisy area. Noise gets into it mostly through the cable as far as I can tell. Drives the meter nuts.

Remade the cable on mine with shielded wire. Noise don't bother it so much now.

Get used to what you have...you will decide later if you really need to do any changes or additions.

You got a good spot to play in. Variety makes it more fun.

Time for some channel surfing and beer.

HH
Art
 
Probably have the XS2 meter Art. Will check tonight. The meter
did act kind of erratic a couple of times on Saturday. Kind of
forgot about that until you mentioned this. Not enough to be a
great concern but I did kind of wonder what was happening.
Thought that maybe the sensitivity at 10 o' clock may have been too much.
I will run it the way it is for now and work on understanding what it's telling me.
Then, I will go on from there.
Have a beer for me too Art. Summer has come back here and it's up
to 86 degrees this afternoon. Thanks for all your time and expert
advice. I really do appreciate it. HH........Gene
 
You're right Art. The meter says "Sovereign XS-2" on it.
Seems kind of jumpy but what do I know. I am brand new to
this type of meter. Besides I am going by sound first and
then looking what the meter may say......HH.......Gene
 
Sound is the best to go by, unless you want to get crosseyed from looking at the meter all the time.

Yes the stock XS2 meter is "jumpy".
Meters scaled to 550 always are, although the meter for the Elite is less so.

The reasons for this instability as far as I can tell go like this..........

The meter is very sensitive to small voltage changes. Very slight changes in ID voltage are commanded by the Sov for very slight changes in target conductivity.
In short...the Sov tells the meter to do it.

A particular ID voltage may be about half way between two different values on the meter. The meter will sit there and click up/down by one digit. The meter is undecided.

The meter is VERY fast to respond to small quick changes in voltage. Noise getting picked up by the cable bounces the meter around.


The Elite meter is not as bad about most of this. It's much slower to respond, so kind of filters out the really fast changes.

Most like their meters rescaled to 180. Takes about three times the voltage change to clock the meter that way. You lose some target resolution, but the meter looks more stable. The small variations are no longer obvious.


I like the XS2 meter over the Elite because I can watch the numbers running as I play the coil over a target. Things like small smooth steps, larger smooth steps, backwards and forwards really wild steps, how quick or long does the meter lock to the target, and how it does this in relation to target strength.

Can't do this with the Elite meter, as it's slow. I can swing over a target then stop the coil movement and count to two before the meter finally clicks to it's final reading.

No matter what meter you use, don't tie yourself to any EXACT readings all the time. Allow yourself a little variation, because you don't always get the "perfect" readings on coins......particularly if they are deep, tilted or trashed.


HH
Art
 
Think I will leave my meter scaled to 550 after what you have
just told me Art. I can put up with the meter jumping around
if there could be some useful information there. Like you say
I will be going by sound first anyway. Even the first time out
I had some dimes and quarters that didn't hit 550. Pinpointed
right on them and with the wiggle saw they were trying to climb.
Had a very good idea of what they were and I was not disappointed.
Just one of the things that I learned right here. Where else
could you get such information. Feel sorry for anyone trying to
learn the Sovereign alone with just the manual. Maybe that's the
ones you see for sale. Kind of think so. Would be frustrating
that's for sure.......HH.......Gene
 
Expect a few emails over the meter issue.

I'm not going to twist your arm in any direction.

You may find that you like your meter, and maybe not.

I spent too many years using electronics test equipment , and am used to differences in what you can tell with two different models......even if they are supposed to do the same thing.

I used to get into it with the guys who repaired and calibrated our test equipment. The older "obsolete" stuff could tell me things that the newer "better" stuff would not tell me.

Could give some examples, but the story is getting long already.

Got work to do between showers. Must go for a while.

HH
Art
 
I will use it for awhile just like it is. If I like the meter
the way it is that's fine. If not I will use something different.
No two people are alike and I only have to satisfy myself. Which
sometimes can be difficult. Back to work.....HH......Gene
 
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