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In the climate change fiasco.

Greg(E.Tn)

Member
Going to beat this dead horse again...……...
During reading various historical books and articles, including old National Geographic magazines, Viking history, Pirate/Treasure history, and the such, I frequently come across legitimate documentation of climate warming and cooling that was occurring as far back as the last seven thousand years, continuing up until the 19th century, all of which occurred before the manufacture and use of all fossil fuels.
One recent article was about an early habitation (+3000 BC) on the shores of the Med, where the inhabitants were forced to build walls against rising sea levels, which resulted in much of the structures being underwater today.

Another was about a "seamount" in the Caribbean, somewhere between Florida and Cuba, where salvagers found the remains of a Spanish shipwreck resting about 80' deep. During the course of conducting salvage, they also found stone Pre-Columbian artifacts, suggesting that the seamount was once an island; the other supposition is that when the shipwreck occurred approximately four hundred years ago, the water was much, much shallower, which caused the ship to run aground.

One of the most recent findings is related to the History Channel show, "Oak Island." They've moved their investigations into a swamp and harbor area, following and investigating anomalies that interest them, and are finding more and more man-made structures below sea level, which suggests those areas were likely above sea level when originally constructed.

Detailed research is not my forte', but I think enough proof is available on the internet to enable a dedicated researcher to document, both historically and prehistorically, a pretty strong case showing a gradual rise in sea levels for a several hundred year period BEFORE the Industrial Revolution.

I even ran across a documented case in which sea levels were HIGHER than they are now approximately 1300 years ago. Archaeologists excavating a Norse fishing village on the edge of a fiord initially found the living and trading structures, but could not locate the support posts for the docks that serviced the fishing vessels, until they began searching far above sea level. They found the docks were located thirteen feet or so ABOVE present day sea level.

Of course, some might contend that this was caused by vulcanism or some sort of later earthquake activity that caused the shore land to rise, but I think that would be pretty farfetched.

At any rate, I suspect that any lettered scholar who pursued such a thesis would not find much support in our modern day politically driven academic society. 👎
 

calfrope

Active member
My thoughts of this global warming concern, and at the same time being aware of earth's complexities with perfect engineered design with balancing effects that continuously keep our earth going on, is way beyond anything of man's own engineering, and designed inventions. If C02 is important to all plant life and vegetation, then why are we trying to deplete it with all the new green deals, and mentioning the disappearance of rain forest at the same time, and contribute that with chopping it down? So what does God have to do in return? He has to crank up a volcanic faucet to counteract what man thinks God needs our help with to increase the C02's for vegetation to thrive, and for trying to tinker with His carburetor.

II Peter 3:7. But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. Reserved? Key word for mankind not going to intervene whatsoever of this final outcome in the destruction of earth, except only with man being the ungodly part of this contributing factor like it was in the day of Noah. It's being reserved, and preserved only for God's destruction in His own timing, but it will be with fire when that final decision is being made. The ungodly part of man being numerous I believe will be the cause and effect that will force God's hand of that day and age to come.

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you from being priest for Me; Because you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children.
Hosea 4:6. Keeping in mind God says I'm the same yesterday, today, and forever.


Just my observation, and view of this.
 

Greg(E.Tn)

Member
What I was trying to point out was the fact that the planet has been warming fairly continuously (except during the Maunder Minimum) for the last seven thousand years or so, and during that stretch of time not a single human was driving a car, heating his home with coal, or working in a coal-fired factory.

In other words, man-made CO2 doesn't drive climate change.

The math behind this hoax doesn't work. The science doesn't work, because if it did, the scientists wouldn't be constantly fudging their data, deleting emails, or tweaking their formulas.

The truth lies in history, in archaeology, and events witnessed by mankind.

In the late 1700's, a British exploration ship sailed into Glacier Bay and noted that the glacier completely protruded into the bay. In the 1870's, John Muir visited Glacier Bay, but had to travel thirty-odd miles inland to find the head of the glacier. In the early 1900's a scientific expedition traveled to where Muir documented the end of the glacier, only to find they had to trudge another thirty or so miles inland to find it.

We aren't talking sea ice here, that melts and reforms with the seasons--we're talking massive glacial disintegration.

60-odd miles of glacial retreat is significant--that's 60 miles of glacial melting that occurred in the 100 years before coal was being used as fuel on a massive scale, and before millions of American were driving gas burning automobiles.


Period. End of story.
 

TechBill

Administrator
Staff member
The earth is 197 millions square miles and I don't think 100,000 square miles of black asphalt is going to put a dent in the climate. However, all those concrete buildings may play some roles in the warming since concrete is a heat conductor and absorbs the heat which get released back out into the climate slowing down the drop in temperature.

That is my theory ....
 

Nauti

Member
Calfrope....you mentioned "balance" which is the defining point in this whole argument.For millions of years the planet has evolved to be in balance.......volcanoes spewed millions of tons of co2 into the atmosphere which was offset by millions of square miles of forest.
Today,as science can prove,the rate of climate change has been the fastest in earths history.....yes there have been periods of warming and cooling over the earths history but none as significant as what we see today.
Since man has been on the earth and particularly over the past few hundred years since the industrial revolution began,the earth has measurably become warmer faster than at any other time in history.
This is where we have to look at balance once more........volcanoes still spew millions of tons of co2 into the atmosphere as they have done for millions of years,however,look what has happened to the huge expanses of forest that used to balance this out......we are deforesting the planet at an extreme rate so there is much less carbon catching vegitation so the amount of co2 entering the atmosphere through volcanoes alone has significantly increased.
Now add the billions of tons of extra c02 that we produce on top of natural production and take into account that we are still reducing the earths natural defences (trees and vegitation) significantly on a daily basis and it is just undeniable common sense that we are having an impact on the earths climate.
You can forget about all the figures that both sides keep banding about to try and prove their arguments.........there is far more co2 in the atmosphere in relation to forest than there has ever been,which means the earth is now totally out of the balance it needs to maintain a normal temprature range.

Far more co2 + far less forest = far faster warming.
 
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calfrope

Active member
Globing warming and climate change.
In respondence to Nauti, and SteveC global climate perspective. I agree with most of this perspective. I would like to present the same viewpoint, but in technical terms.

There is no question or doubt in any rational human being’s mind, that the planet earth did not, nor could not, ever have come into existence by chance. That is a mathematical impossibility. For example, if one considers any event-occurrence as having an occurrence probability number as small as fifty-four zeros following the decimal point, i.e. 0.000000-------01, then it is considered as having an impossible chance of occurrence. No known event that has had a probability of 10-to-the-minus 55 power has ever occurred in nature or otherwise. That is a scientific, mathematical fact.
Now, if the planet earth did not come into existence by chance, then how it occur? The answer is simple to some individuals and very complicated to others. If it did not occur by chance, then it could only have occurred under the influence, direction, and engineering of a very, very powerful high-order of intelligence. There are no other alternatives. If that be the case, then it would be foolish to believe that this high-order of intelligence source did not calculate the volume of oil that the creatures on earth would need to get us where we are today.

If one considers the climate conditions on earth for the last 5 billion years, then it is hard to explain how a mammoth with preserved vegetation in its mouth was discovered on the polar cap region by Russian scientists. This high-order of intelligence designed the volcanic activity level, vegetation acreage, and the Nitrogen cycle to regulate a climate necessary for sustaining air breathing life on earth as we know it. The designer converted millions of acres of lush vegetation into barren desert land of the middle east for a reason. It was first used to reduce the atmospheric CO2 levels necessary to increase the atmospheric Oxygen level so that air breathing animals could be introduced. Good engineering! If humanity would install irrigation systems, as did Israel, to convert the millions of acres of barren desert back into lush vegetation, then the atmospheric CO2 levels could be regulated. This approach not only regulates CO2 levels but also the Nitrogen-cycle levels as well.

This global climate movement is a religious cult and as long as they are in control, the CO2 and Nitrogen cycle levels will never be regulated as the High-Order of intelligent engineer intended.

Note, the volcanic activity level is an ultrasensitive method to control CO2 atmospheric levels and only the design engineer controls that. That is a backup system incase humanity is so politically dumb to recognize the method of regulating the CO2 and N levels, which are necessary to provide a heathy atmosphere as well as controlling global warming.
 

hawgdawg

Well-known member
I'll make my response short and sweet . While I don't believe we humans are doing a whole lot of good to this planet ,, I also don't believe we are the sole reason for climate change , global warming , whatever your favorite slogan is . Al Gore promised global destruction in 10 years , 30 years ago , and we're not much different now . Hell , these yahoo's can't predict tomorrows weather ,, you think I trust them to tell me what it's going to be like in 10 years , 20 , or even 100 yrs ??
 

Nauti

Member
I'll make my response short and sweet . While I don't believe we humans are doing a whole lot of good to this planet ,, I also don't believe we are the sole reason for climate change , global warming , whatever your favorite slogan is . Al Gore promised global destruction in 10 years , 30 years ago , and we're not much different now . Hell , these yahoo's can't predict tomorrows weather ,, you think I trust them to tell me what it's going to be like in 10 years , 20 , or even 100 yrs ??
We have totally upset the balance between carbon emissions and carbon absorbtion........we don't need to be quoted figures,graphs etc,etc.......it is blatantly obvious what we are doing,earths natural carbon catchers(trees) have been reduced to levels well below what are needed to deal with the extra co2 we are producing.........i'm afraid a nice wooden coffee table doesn't have the same effect.
 

Steve O

Well-known member
Our Creator made trees convenient and practical. Thankfully he grew many.

I mentioned roads especially black asphalt a while back. If you include all the square miles of roads and rooftops, how much light is absorbed into the earth? How much sunlight do plants and trees absorb. Think of this.....a green plant looks green to us because it reflects green light and absorbs the rest of the spectrum of light. A white object reflects all light, a black object absorbs the full spectrum of sunlight. I think man is changing what colors of light the earth absorbs and reflects....therefore, possibly, a slight change in Earths temperature. Light is some cool invention by the greatest inventor that ever will be.
 

Nauti

Member
You make a very valid point there..........this is OBVIOUSLY another thing to consider when looking at why the earth is heating faster than at any time in history.Also,imagine how much heat a large city produces.....as well as what you mentioned there is the heat off thousands of large buildings,thousands of cars and many thousands of people............the earth cannot cope with all of the changes we have made, it's simple logic.
Problem is Steve as the worlds population grows ever more out of control,more trees will be cleared for farming,more houses will be built and cities will get larger........what is the answer,the planet IS in trouble.
 

calfrope

Active member
That still doesn't cut it!-----Nothing occurs outside of what the designer, whose evidence of existence is obviously observed, has planned for. If you believe that everything occurred by chance, which is impossible, then it's being truly unobservant. If you believe everything occurred by design, then what occurs is by design and nothing anyone can do about it. To believe that the designer did not take into consideration man's effects on the climate and what natural effects are available to manage that climate crises is also foolish. Man knows what he can do to manage the human-effects on climate change, but the politicians would rather use the situation to scare the heck out of college kids to gain political power then to promote and finance the solution to the problem. Their goal is to solve the problem after gaining permanent political power, but that never occurs because socialism or communism can never finance anything, including war machines, without the help of the capitalistic financial world for which they want to destroy. However, socialism or communism is great at keeping the captive citizens in line. Simple!
 

Greg(E.Tn)

Member
But, the Earth is NOT heating faster than any time in history.

Many scientists have reported a recession of warming in the latter half of the 20th century, extending into the first quarter of the 21st century.

The reference in my original post regarding "" One recent article was about an early habitation (+3000 BC) on the shores of the Med, where the inhabitants were forced to build walls against rising sea levels, which resulted in much of the structures being underwater today. ", also indicated that warming during that period was several times higher than it is today.

Furthermore, the massive glacial melting that occurred between the 18th and 20th century has reduced.

What people don't seem to get is climate change didn't just start happening when the internal combustion engine was mass produced, or we started burning coal and other fossil fuels worldwide. To listen to some of these activist scientists report on it, the warming started in the late 1800-early 1900s.

That's blatantly false.

The planet started warming quickly when the last ice age ended. It's been going on for the last several THOUSAND years.

I don't understand why this is so hard to understand...………….

You make a very valid point there..........this is OBVIOUSLY another thing to consider when looking at why the earth is heating faster than at any time in history.Also,imagine how much heat a large city produces.....as well as what you mentioned there is the heat off thousands of large buildings,thousands of cars and many thousands of people............the earth cannot cope with all of the changes we have made, it's simple logic.
Problem is Steve as the worlds population grows ever more out of control,more trees will be cleared for farming,more houses will be built and cities will get larger........what is the answer,the planet IS in trouble.
 

Greg(E.Tn)

Member
Here's the link to the article, and I attached the pertinents below:

" An ancient seawall erected thousands of years ago along the Mediterranean coast at the end of an ice age is the oldest evidence of civilization trying to defend itself against rising sea levels, a team of researchers said on Wednesday. "

" The Neolithic village was long ago overtaken by the sea as it swelled from glacial melting at the end of the last ice age. Today the shoreline is much higher and the research was conducted under water. "

" According to the researchers, sea levels were rising faster when the Neolithic village existed around the end of the Stone Age, up to 7 millimeters a year, than they have so far under contemporary climate change. "

" Climate experts say sea levels are rising around 3 millimeters per year now "



 

Nauti

Member
Lol..........still in denial after what i have said is totally obvious......the inbalance in the natural world is at its greatest in the history of this planet.....this is an undeniable fact fullstop.
Calfrope......it does not matter whether you come at this problem from a biblical perspective or an evolutionary perspective.If you come from a biblical perspective.......,God created the earth and created trees to keep our atmosphere clean so that we could leave healthy lives.He also created man with an amazing intellect so that we could see the consequences of our actions.He did not create man so that he had to sort out their follies or plan for their future follies.He created us to have enough independence and forethought not to have to keep on relying on his intervention for our shortcomings.I imagine he would be looking down on our efforts so far with great distain.
Also bud,i'm sure,like you believe,that he has planned every eventuality he would not have planned for the suffering that exists over the earth,particularly involving young children who are totaloy innocent of any form of corruption.......sorry but your argument is totally flawed.Do you believe the earth is flat......if you know your bible truly you should do or are you a "luke warm Christion"who has succumbed to the brainwashing of modern science and the fact that the bible has been changed to make people believe in a globe earth.
If you come at the problem from an evolutionary perspective we really have the same result.As the earth cooled enough to allow life to form,plant life started to exist that fed off the c02 in the atmosphere and produced oxygen that allowed other forms of life to exist.Over millions of years evolution created enough trees and vegatation to balance out the c02 to allow life to thrive.Trees and vegatation are vitally important to the earths function and again i say that there is more c02 in the atmosphere now in relation to the required amount of natural c02 absorbers hat we need to maintain a healthy planet.........this is so obvious it is ridiculous to deny it.
Greg,i think you need to expand your research a bit more as the majority of consensus within the scientific communities is that man is helpibgvto warm up the planet.Do you work in the oil industry?
 

calfrope

Active member
It is obvious that I do not understand what is obvious to you! And you do not understand what is obvious to me! So, let’s chew on this argument bit by bit so that there can be no question in either of our minds as to what is obvious to either of us and the rationale/basis for its observation. This should allow any unbiased observer to evaluate each premise and then make their own philosophical conclusion. O.K.?

First bit:
1) I assume that you believe, if there is a God, then He would not have planned nor tolerated the suffering of humanity, especially the children who are innocent of any form of corruption. Yes or No?

2) In regard to 1): For the moment, let’s leave God out of the equation. In all of your knowledge and wisdom, please define what you believe to be the man-made cause(s) or source of all or any one human corruption and suffering?

Let’s get this, 2), question out of the way before we address the next question. O. K.?

Calfrope.
 

Kraemer

Member
We will all be long dead and forgotten by the time global warming has any significant impact on this planet. Arrogant and misguided people believing they know exactly how the planet is in danger amuses me. I am quite certain that the Earth will survive despite our antics. George Carlin explained it years ago.
 

Steve(Can)

Well-known member
First bit:
1) I assume that you believe, if there is a God, then He would not have planned nor tolerated the suffering of humanity, especially the children who are innocent of any form of corruption. Yes or No?
The story of humanity is a story of hardship and suffering, famine, disease, pestilence, death and destruction. Its often children, innocent of any form of corruption, who tend to get the worst of it and suffer the most. A vale of tears, is a term used to describe this world and no one gets through unscarred.

Planned by God? Tolerated by God? Original sin, is a term used to explain it. In the story of Eden, mankind brings all this suffering and death on himself by his own sin. Fair enough, until you ask yourself this:

Would you as a father build a place for your children, furnish it with everything they need to be happy and content, but, even though they don't yet know the difference between good and evil, allow a deceitful, murderous, psychopathic maniac free access to them in your absence? Particularly if you are all-knowing and already know exactly what will happen as soon as you leave, and all-powerful so you could have banished that evil anywhere other than in the paradise you created for your children?

Whatever the ancient story was meant to teach us, there's a lot it doesn't explain and I don't know. Maybe something about disobedience and free will? In any case, Yes or No to your question? Your guess is as good as mine, I guess. :shrug:

2) In regard to 1): For the moment, let’s leave God out of the equation. In all of your knowledge and wisdom, please define what you believe to be the man-made cause(s) or source of all or any one human corruption and suffering?
Calfrope.
Greed? They say the love of money is the root of all evil. Substance abuse, a big one for human corruption and suffering that also leads to the abuse and neglect of children.... depravity and mental illness... ignorance and apathy, not knowing, not caring... thoughtlessness and selfishness, blatant disregard for the safety and well being of others... fear, jealousy, hatred.... pride? Am I getting close?
 
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