Is there any advantage with a concentric vs DD in a beach environment

[Russ88]

Hello Fellow Tesoro users

I bought a Vaquero with the 9 x 8 concentric just prior to the 11 x 8 DD coil becoming available. Is there any advantage to having a concentric? I have a fairly low minerialized ground here in WI. I plan to use it later this year in salty sand so I am wondering how it will perform vs the DD. Any thoughts you can share and any recommendations in a beach environment utilizing the concentric?

Russ88

 

[Nauti]

Hi Russ,
I don't think the vaquero is going to do all that well in the salty sand anyway.......it will false a lot and you will have to turn down the sensitivity and maybe up the discrim.
As for concentric coils at the beach,i used to have a whites m6 and used the 950 and 300 coils which are both concentric.I now use a whites beach hunter id which has the 300 concentric coil on it.Concentric coils will give you more depth generally and I find them better for beach hunting than dd coils in this respect.My bhid is proof that concentric coils work over difficult ground such as salty sand and I would'nt swap my machine for any other beach machine......it's as deep as anything else and better than most on tiny gold items and chains and most others use dd coils.
Going back to your machine,the 9x8 is a great coil inland and will find you loads of stuff......i found loads with mine on a cibola.On the beach,if you can run the machine as hot as possible and can put up with a bit of noise,you will find that you will still get targets,just not as deep as a dedicated beach machine......you will get a lot of falsing but good targets will be easy to recognise over the noise.

 

[Hoser John]

DD handles the conductive salts at the beach much better than concentric on any brand. Concentric great for tiny objects but not black sands-aka nuggetshooting. Was a dealer , now just a user , of Tesoro since 83 and still love my TLST and original Golden Sabre for trashy areas(throw on a dd and it works MUCH deeper/better)-John

 

[Nauti]

I don't agree.......my beach hunter with its concentric coil is as deep or deeper than many well known beach machines with a dd.It also runs smooth even on black sand and will pick up the smallest of items.If a dd coil was that much better,why did whites equip their main beach machine with a concentric?Much is made of dd coils,but in reality concentric coils can still hold their own against a dd and I would'nt swap mine for anything with a dd for searching the beach.

 

[Fletch88]

SINGLE frequency machines handle salt and mineral better with a DD coil. It is actually seeing less ground under the coil which causes less interference. Multiple freq machines on the other hand with concentric coils like CZ's, dual field (pulse induction) and Beach Hunter ID can handle wet sand. I tried my vaquero last weekend with 11x8 RSD coil and it did ok but I had to reduce sensitivy to about 50%

 

[JJdigs]

I used the old style DD on my vaquero on the east coast Hampton Beach in New Hampshire " pretty sure I have a YouTube video of it ". I got about 6 or 7 " of depth with sensitivity a bit above halfway and disc a tad below a nickel to run the hottest I could with out to much falsing on the wet sand ! Never tried the 9x8

 

[Nauti]

SINGLE frequency machines handle salt and mineral better with a DD coil. It is actually seeing less ground under the coil which causes less interference. Multiple freq machines on the other hand with concentric coils like CZ's, dual field (pulse induction) and Beach Hunter ID can handle wet sand. I tried my vaquero last weekend with 11x8 RSD coil and it did ok but I had to reduce sensitivy to about 50%

It'not always just the coil,it boils down to the way the machines electronics cope with the salt.I used an m6 for ages at the beach and it ran as smooth as anything on the wet sand,even at high sensitivities. I only ever used the 950 coil and the 12"coil,both concentric designs.With its combination of beach mode and brilliant tracking,it was a great wet sand detector even though it was a single frequency unit.Using a dd coil on this machine at the beach did not give any advantage and I would still be using one if they had made it fully waterproof.

 

[Fletch88]

Yes I have owned several machines with a "beach" setting. It's just dumbing down the machine. It has EVERYTHING to do with the DD vs concentric coil. Single freq is just single freq no matter how you manipulate it with a setting that basically extends the ground balance range. I have used at least 5 machines that fall into that category and every one including the whites MX-5 run better with a DD in wet salt.

 

[Russ88]

Looks like the opinions are divided on which type of coil works better...... Certainly appreciate all of your input..... In "dry " salty sand is the playing field equal in performance in dry sand? Also in dry sand can you detect as deep as in normal dirt? Additionally do items (coins, jewelry etc) drop a lot faster in sand (making detecting more difficult)?

 

[trojdor]

Additionally do items (coins, jewelry etc) drop a lot faster in sand (making detecting more difficult)?

Yes, much faster in sand...which is why items are so easily lost in sand.
It's amazing to watch how fast a ring will disappear (and sink) in sand.

In addition to the 'normal' modes of losing items...volleyball, horsing around, changing, getting out of the water with cold hands, etc,
picture the poor guy/gal who carefully puts their watch and jewelry in a towel and carefully wraps it up...
only to forget and grab the towel to dry off...and bing!...there it flies.

hh,
mike

 

[rluna]

Doesn't sound like there is a definitive answer for the OP.....but,
does it even really matter if the Vaquero does not work in Wet or Dry Salty sand anyway?

Rand(nightdigger)


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[Russ88]

Perhaps it might be better to ask any Vaquero or other similar detectors their experiences in Wet Sand and Dry Sand in a Salty Sand environment their experiences with a concentric coil. Does it perform in Dry Salty Sand just as it would perform in a normal dirt environment? Is depth compromised in anyway? Any experiences you care to share or recommendations?

 

[Russ88]

Additionally do items (coins, jewelry etc) drop a lot faster in sand (making detecting more difficult)?

Yes, much faster in sand...which is why items are so easily lost in sand.
It's amazing to watch how fast a ring will disappear (and sink) in sand.

In addition to the 'normal' modes of losing items...volleyball, horsing around, changing, getting out of the water with cold hands, etc,
picture the poor guy/gal who carefully puts their watch and jewelry in a towel and carefully wraps it up...
only to forget and grab the towel to dry off...and bing!...there it flies.

hh,
mike

Interesting

 

[Furious T]

Just my 2 cents worth......going to detect at a saltwater beach can produce so many variances in the "ground" conditions, that it is almost impossible to cover it all in replies on a forum. Add to that, many many detectorists have opinions about the detectors they did/do best with in the conditions where they detect, you may get replies that, with the very best intentions and sincere advice given, conflict with each other and dont even apply to where you are going to detect.

Many detectorists have their favourite machines for given detecting spots, and this includes beaches.

If the beaches are saltwater associated (which is where you indicated you are interested), then it's like opening Pandora's box asking people what is best to use.

Lets look at beach conditions....and keep in mind that these vary from beach to beach.

At the top of the beach (away from the water) you mostly have dry sand....this can vary from beach to beach. Depending on the amount of slope on the beach the dry sand may be 12 inches deep, or it may be 4-6 feet deep. Where the amount of sand on a beach has been reduced (by storms or wave action) there may not be much dry sand on the beach at all, and sometimes only on the surface in some places.

Such conditions can change, and changing conditions can vary the effectiveness of different detectors...and coils. eg If you are detecting a beach or part of a beach where the dry sand goes down 2 - 4 feet, then a concentric coil may do a good job, particularly if the sand is not too mineralised and there is a complete absence of black magnetic sand. (Remember me mentioning a multitude of varying conditions?)

If you are detecting in wet sand, or in dry sand that is only a few inches deep (and then there is wet sand), a DD coil may perform much better than a concentric coil, particularly if it has to put up with minerals as well as the salt.

If you are not using a dedicated salt beach detector, I would be inclined to use a DD coil. There may be times when a concentric coil would/could do better, but in my view a DD coil will be better suited to the changing conditions that most of us encounter at a salt water beach. Good luck and HH

 

[rluna]

(Remember me mentioning a multitude of varying conditions?)

If you are detecting in wet sand, or in dry sand that is only a few inches deep (and then there is wet sand), a DD coil may perform much better than a concentric coil, particularly if it has to put up with minerals as well as the salt.

If you are not using a dedicated salt beach detector, I would be inclined to use a DD coil. There may be times when a concentric coil would/could do better, but in my view a DD coil will be better suited to the changing conditions that most of us encounter at a salt water beach. Good luck and HH

Ha ha....all that to make it sound like it was a question that couldn't be answered and yet you gave him an
answer in these last two paragraphs. See, now was that, that hard

Yes, there will always be variables (this is metal detecting). But that doesn't mean you cant give a general
idea of how a particular detector may or may not work in a particular area with a certain type of coil.
The best answers will probably come from those who have actually used a Vaquero in the salty sand.


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[Russ88]

Just my 2 cents worth......going to detect at a saltwater beach can produce so many variances in the "ground" conditions, that it is almost impossible to cover it all in replies on a forum. Add to that, many many detectorists have opinions about the detectors they did/do best with in the conditions where they detect, you may get replies that, with the very best intentions and sincere advice given, conflict with each other and dont even apply to where you are going to detect.

Many detectorists have their favourite machines for given detecting spots, and this includes beaches.

If the beaches are saltwater associated (which is where you indicated you are interested), then it's like opening Pandora's box asking people what is best to use.

Lets look at beach conditions....and keep in mind that these vary from beach to beach.

At the top of the beach (away from the water) you mostly have dry sand....this can vary from beach to beach. Depending on the amount of slope on the beach the dry sand may be 12 inches deep, or it may be 4-6 feet deep. Where the amount of sand on a beach has been reduced (by storms or wave action) there may not be much dry sand on the beach at all, and sometimes only on the surface in some places.

Such conditions can change, and changing conditions can vary the effectiveness of different detectors...and coils. eg If you are detecting a beach or part of a beach where the dry sand goes down 2 - 4 feet, then a concentric coil may do a good job, particularly if the sand is not too mineralised and there is a complete absence of black magnetic sand. (Remember me mentioning a multitude of varying conditions?)


Thanks for the update......I can see there are many factors to consider. I did talk with Rusty Henry yesterday and he told me the best way was to get a dedicated detector that can deal with sand like the sandshark

If you are detecting in wet sand, or in dry sand that is only a few inches deep (and then there is wet sand), a DD coil may perform much better than a concentric coil, particularly if it has to put up with minerals as well as the salt.

If you are not using a dedicated salt beach detector, I would be inclined to use a DD coil. There may be times when a concentric coil would/could do better, but in my view a DD coil will be better suited to the changing conditions that most of us encounter at a salt water beach. Good luck and HH

Thanks for the update. I can see there are many factors to consider, so your answer makes sense considering all the variables involved. I talked with Rusty Henry yesterday from Tesoro and his response in the best case scenario is if you could utilize a detector made for sand conditions like the Sand Shark.....He also said that the DD coil will have the edge vs the concentric, but it is a difficult proposition when dealing with wet salty sand in general for both coils. Since I am going to a salty sand situation out of town I am not going to buy a DD coil and certainly not a Sand Shark detector for a spot situation. He told me to try to detect in low tide conditions so my opportunities will be greater. Interestingly, he said his experience is that he is 10 times more successful in the wet sand and out in the water that just the beach towel dry sand scenarios. So that looks like the limitations I am up against. Thanks for all your input!