5x10 DD in 3khz or 7.5khz

[ronhob]

You know, I'm kind of surprised that the coiltek focus has been primarily on the larger DD coils. I guess I would have thought they would of made a light weight, low or medium frequency coil first.
Don't get me wrong, the 3khz 6" DD is going to be a definite blessing, but I would've taken a 5x10 (LF or MF) DD over any of the new coils.
I simply love the 10.5 DD MF coil, but would like less weight. It has superb depth and good separation.
I feel that the 5x10 HF stays on my machine most of the time simply because it's light weight and has a 10" sweep. ( Also performs very well in trash areas and is killer on nickles)

Anyone else feel my pain?
I'm not complaining, just putting it out there. Thanks!

 

[Old Longhair]

My Explorer is so heavy that the Xterra feals like a feather with whatever coil I have on. So sorry, I can't comiserate.

And to me, a smaller coil is a smaller coil. If I'm going to go for coverage, I want deep too. If I'm hunting in trash, I'll take small for the superior separation. So for me, the 3kHx is nothing short of a godsend. Getting the depth of the lower frequency along with it's response to high conductors, coupled with being a small DD, is going to transform my Xterra into a deep seeking trash park coin killer......and I can't wait!

 

[DirtAngler]

I would prefer a lightweight 11" procoil type coil. Personally, where I hunt those coils are too big and too heavy.

 

[morelic55]

I second the 11" Pro Coil Idea..................

I would prefer a lightweight 11" procoil type coil. Personally, where I hunt those coils are too big and too heavy.

 

[EOS]

Yeah I agree on smaller coils!
But we shouldnt complain now when they released 3 new
coils. But, but...let say a 10.5-11" light ,waterproof MF,or a 5x10" waterproof MF and HF and I would
been a buyer.

15" in different kHz is just to big for overall detecting me think.
I like my WOT, a real harvester on big not so trashy fields,but tend to use smaller coils.

Just my thoughts
Have a nice day all .

Mike

 

[Digger]

Don't lose hope. Although the recent product announcement was for the two new 15-inch coils and a 6-inch LF, rest assured that I've been working with both Minelab and Coiltek for several years on enhancing the coil lineup for the X-TERRA. In fact, my "initial" request to Minelab for the 6-inch LF DD was communicated to them in 2007! Ironically, after Coiltek became authorized to manufacture X-TERRA coils earlier last year, in addition to the small 6-inch DD at 3 kHz, another recommendation was to redesign the existing Coiltek "Joey" elliptical coil (used with other Minelab models), for use with the X-TERRA.

As to an 11-inch "Pro style" DD for the X-TERRA...... that specific sized coil has already been developed by Minelab in both the 7.5 kHz and 18.75 kHz frequencies. I had been asked to field test both the MF version and the HF version on salt water beaches. Since I live in the Midwest, I told Minelab I would be happy to test them in "dirt". But also told them I could not perform the tests on the beach in the timeframe they needed. Therefore, I was excluded from this particular series of field tests. And as with any other Field Test, those who did the testing are not at liberty to reveal what they concluded. But it is obvious that they did not perform up to the Field Tester's expectations, as those coils have not been made commercially available.

Strictly my opinion.........I would venture a guess that future X-TERRA coil development will somewhat depend on the response from X-TERRA users for these coils. For example, a recent string of posts on this forum regarding a small DD at 3 kHz included well over 100 responses from folks who said they would buy one. For whatever reason , you can count the number of people on one hand who have responded to the fact that Coiltek has responded with one and will soon be making it available. I totally understand how one would want to make sure it "fills the bill" before making the purchase. But I would also think that kudos are in order for both Coiltek and Minelab, for following up on the demand. Just as we shouldn't lose hope that additional coils are made available...... the manufacturers need to "not lose hope" that the decisions they are making are appreciated by the consumer. JMHO HH Randy

 

[ronhob]

Re: 5x10 DD in 3khz or 7.5khz







I'm just saying, mighty big jump between 6" DD at 3khz and and 15" DD at 3khz.
Heck the 10.5"MF goes as deep as most people will ever need.
Why not make a 3khz. 8,10,or12" DD? Round or Elliptical!!!
I gotta agree with DirtAngler, a light weight 3khz.11 inch pro coil would be most excellent!

 

[Old Longhair]

If Coiltek produces a 3kHz Joey you'll have your wish.

We all have our own criteria, which is part of what's so cool about this machine, in that it is so adaptable. The recent addition of new coils along with the probability of more to come should add up to never giving up hope. A parallel could be drawn to why we do this in the first place.

V-flex technology isn't anywhere nearing obsolesense. On the contrary, it is the first of it's kind. The fact that it's undergone only one generational change over the course of it's production to me means that it's had to show itself worthy of future investment, and in my mind it succeeded. The recent incorporation of "V-flex like (digital) concept" technology in the new CTX is proof to me also that at least certain aspects of it must be in fact superior enough for MineLab to have invested/incorporated it in their top shelf treasure unit. I believe that I'll always have an Xterra in the arsenal in some form or another. It may be the next generation when it comes along, but I think that the Xterra will be in MineLab's lineup for a long time, and we should look forward to a future coil selection with technology that is proving to be a revelation in the industry. JMHO

 

[Mark in S.E. IA]

Now for me I want a 6" DD 7.5 coil. I want a small coil that is good at finding silver and nickels. I enjoy finding the old nickels as much as I do the silver coins.

That's my 2 cents worth.

 

[ronhob]

Don't lose hope. Although the recent product announcement was for the two new 15-inch coils and a 6-inch LF, rest assured that I've been working with both Minelab and Coiltek for several years on enhancing the coil lineup for the X-TERRA. In fact, my "initial" request to Minelab for the 6-inch LF DD was communicated to them in 2007! Ironically, after Coiltek became authorized to manufacture X-TERRA coils earlier last year, in addition to the small 6-inch DD at 3 kHz, another recommendation was to redesign the existing Coiltek "Joey" elliptical coil (used with other Minelab models), for use with the X-TERRA.

As to an 11-inch "Pro style" DD for the X-TERRA...... that specific sized coil has already been developed by Minelab in both the 7.5 kHz and 18.75 kHz frequencies. I had been asked to field test both the MF version and the HF version on salt water beaches. Since I live in the Midwest, I told Minelab I would be happy to test them in "dirt". But also told them I could not perform the tests on the beach in the timeframe they needed. Therefore, I was excluded from this particular series of field tests. And as with any other Field Test, those who did the testing are not at liberty to reveal what they concluded. But it is obvious that they did not perform up to the Field Tester's expectations, as those coils have not been made commercially available.

Strictly my opinion.........I would venture a guess that future X-TERRA coil development will somewhat depend on the response from X-TERRA users for these coils. For example, a recent string of posts on this forum regarding a small DD at 3 kHz included well over 100 responses from folks who said they would buy one. For whatever reason , you can count the number of people on one hand who have responded to the fact that Coiltek has responded with one and will soon be making it available. I totally understand how one would want to make sure it "fills the bill" before making the purchase. But I would also think that kudos are in order for both Coiltek and Minelab, for following up on the demand. Just as we shouldn't lose hope that additional coils are made available...... the manufacturers need to "not lose hope" that the decisions they are making are appreciated by the consumer. JMHO HH Randy

I appreciate anything new put on the market for the x-terra series, and believe me, I will have a 3 khz DD in the 6" variety if nothing else is produced. My last posting was before reading your post ,Digger, so forgive me for the pro coil comment. I am definitely encouraged with the idea of a joey coil or a coil close to 10" that is DD and light weight and in the 3khz. Thanks Minelab,Coiltek and Randy for your continued support in the X-terra line up! I will continue to be loyal to minelab products and enjoy all the accessory options you provide for the X-terra series. Sincerely RON.

 

[Digger]

No apology necessary, Ron. A lot of folks probably didn't realize that the 11-inch Pro coil was "tested", but was not approved for the commercial market. I think it is important for folks to realize not every coil that is developed makes it to the marketplace. I would far rather have access to a coil that is proven in the field, opposed to a company releasing one to the public before thorough testing is completed. Which brings me to the upcoming 6-inch DD at 3 kHz.........I have NOT seen this coil, nor have I tested it. It is my understanding, however, that the 6-inch DD at 3 kHz has been tested thoroughly by both Coiltek and Minelab. However, until I am able to "put one through it's paces" and it passes my testing procedures with flying colors, I will not recommend it...... regardless of the "nickname" it bears. In that regard, I have tested both the 3 kHz All Terrain 15-inch DD and the 18.75 kHz All Terrain 15-inch DD. And although the TID representation on the 3 kHz model is not as accurate on low conductive targets (as the MF or HF versions), all are extremely deep seeking coils. This does not pose a problem for me in that I recognize that lower frequency coils are better suited for higher conductive targets...... and higher frequency coils are better suited for lower conductive targets. I also realize that low frequency coils do not perform as well in highly mineralized conditions as higher freqs. When I tested the 15-inch All Terrain in my moderately mineralized soil, it worked quite well. However, in areas with greater levels of magnetic mineralization, it became more difficult to acquire an accurate ground balance.... thus, skewed TID's on lower conductive targets. So in regard to all three All Terrain coils........ if I were wanting a 15-inch coil for jewerly hunting on the beach or prospecting in the gold fields, I'd select the HF version. For silver and copper coins in areas with little modern trash, I'd opt for the 3 kHz. And for all around detecting, the 7.5 kHz would likely be my choice due to its TID accuracy on a full range of coins. As I've stated, the depth of detection is exceptional in all three freqs. I believe my field test report on the All Terrains is available on Coiltek's website.

In regard to the 6-inch DD at 3 kHz........not that it makes a difference to some....... but I'll offer my opinion of its performance after I've had the opportunity to try it out in a variety of locations. JMHO HH Randy

 

[rseasy1]

I would a like a 3KHZ. coil in any flavor but due to the low ground balance I get in my area it most likely is not a good choice for me.
Can I run a negative off set if I GB in the low 20's to mid to upper teens and still use the 3KHZ just cheat a bit with it ?

 

[littlenugget]

digger what do you mean on this ..........due to its TID accuracy on a full range of coins.

 

[Old Longhair]

I would a like a 3KHZ. coil in any flavor but due to the low ground balance I get in my area it most likely is not a good choice for me.
Can I run a negative off set if I GB in the low 20's to mid to upper teens and still use the 3KHZ just cheat a bit with it ?

I do.

digger what do you mean on this ..........due to its TID accuracy on a full range of coins.

He's referring to the target segment bin widths of the various frequencies. With the machine running 3kHz, the bin widths are wider at the high end of the TID, while the bin width are narrower at the low end. And inversely, with a 18.75kHz coil on, the bin widths are wider at the low end and narrower on the uppers. The 7.5kHz coils have virtually uniform bin widths accross the entire range.
What this means to the user, is that with a LF coil on high conductive targets have wide enough bins that they are less likely to bleed over into the adjacent bin, which means a stable ID. The same coil on low conductors, by virtue of the narrower bins on the low end, will be more likely to encounter targets that will beed into the next bin, producing a jumpy or less stable ID. And again, the inverse is true with the HF coils.

Here is an illustration that shows what I mean.

[attachment 246590 X-TerraTIDBinsByFrequency.jpg]

 

[littlenugget]

thanks!!!

 

[DirtAngler]

For what they are worth, being that these tests were air tests, I get these results in using different frequencies on my Deus which directly relate to what I'd expect on the Xterra. If I choose a higher frequency, like 12 Khz, a clad dime and silver time will mostly read the same and maybe differ by 1 number on the TID. Doing this same test using 4 Khz, the TID numbers will vary every time and by as much as 4. Also doing air tests using 18 Khz compared to 4 Khz, the depth difference and audio signal on a gold ring is very noticeable. I never did these actual comparisons with my Xterra because I don't have the different frequency coils but I figure the same rules apply so I did it with the Deus where it is easy to do this application and as expected, found the bin width results seem to relate the same findings which I was unaware of until reading Randy's Xterra Ebook.

 

[TURNMASTER]

Personally I want the 3khz 6