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82 Id's on Racer . Good solid lock on.
- Thread starter Elton
- Start date
Out of 27 82 Id's solid lock on. 21 were Aluminum screw caps ..One was a zinc penny..and 5 were assorted junk can pieces.
This was with the 5" coil.... It seemed to me a large amount of screw cap hits... Granted it was a junk area.. That acknowledged I have taken other detectors there, and did not hit the screw caps in that amounts..
Any suggestions on how to cut down on Aluminum screw cap hits would be appreciated.. [size=x-large]I know don't dig those signals LOL[/size] ..Indian Heads have been found at this spot..and I know some Indians hit as zinc pennies. ?????????????????????????
I know this post seems petty ..but this old body has only so many ups and downs in a detecting day..
This was with the 5" coil.... It seemed to me a large amount of screw cap hits... Granted it was a junk area.. That acknowledged I have taken other detectors there, and did not hit the screw caps in that amounts..
Any suggestions on how to cut down on Aluminum screw cap hits would be appreciated.. [size=x-large]I know don't dig those signals LOL[/size] ..Indian Heads have been found at this spot..and I know some Indians hit as zinc pennies. ?????????????????????????
I know this post seems petty ..but this old body has only so many ups and downs in a detecting day..
sprchng
Well-known member
You should be able to distinguish those 82s good vs junk targets by the nuances of the tones. Large class rings made of gold fall in the low zinc range as well as lots of other interesting jewelry finds . If you leave all the zincs and pennies behind , not only are you leaving behind possible quality finds , you are creating the next "pull tab" dilemma of the future. DIg em , your children will thank you!!!
It is true that over time you become innately aware of what is a good target just by the tone characteristics. That 4 way solid pop tone without any ragged edges reading an 87 makes you stop. But that same 87 that bleeds out and doesn't pop 4 ways you reluctantly dig. The ID on this does not give nearly the amount of info that I got on my CTX. I pretty much knew exactly what I was digging more times than not just based on target ID. But I am digging just as a many targets with the racer with almost the same confidence just by letting the tone talk to me and shape the target.
csarebelva
New member
Um some of my best targets have been around 82 .... 2 Piece Flower button .... Flat Buttons and deeper Wheat pennies...... CSA Solid Cast button 83....... Most shallow Wheat pennies 83-84....... Modern Dimes - 84-85....... Silver quarter 87..... but I have dug brass that started faint in the high 50s and went up as I dug it ..
I have dug several older bottle caps and some 22 bullets, 12 gauge shells that will ring around 82 but I can usually tell by how shallow it is (depending on the area) if it may be trash. ...... in fact i can call about 50% of them now which is pretty good for me. I dig much less trash with this machine ......especially when I only dig in the 80s or deeper sounding 50s -80s Zinc pennies always seem a bit choppy sounding to me .... they erode away over a few years.
When you find a machine that eliminates all trash and never misses a good target ......let me know ......I would love to have on ..... umm for under $1000
You just have to dig a little trash now and then ....it may eventually uncover some better targets.
I have dug several older bottle caps and some 22 bullets, 12 gauge shells that will ring around 82 but I can usually tell by how shallow it is (depending on the area) if it may be trash. ...... in fact i can call about 50% of them now which is pretty good for me. I dig much less trash with this machine ......especially when I only dig in the 80s or deeper sounding 50s -80s Zinc pennies always seem a bit choppy sounding to me .... they erode away over a few years.
When you find a machine that eliminates all trash and never misses a good target ......let me know ......I would love to have on ..... umm for under $1000
You just have to dig a little trash now and then ....it may eventually uncover some better targets.
Tom Slick said:
That's great, but were you digging 82 signals? All of them or only some?
I'm happy to dig (scoop) 82 signals on the beach, where I can quickly pick
out the zinc penny or other item from my scoop and continue on to the
next target. But in a park, where digging is more labor intensive and
time consuming, I find that I usually skip the 82 and look for different ID
numbers that I think are more likely to be an interesting find.
I was digging all the 82's as it was only the second time out with the small coil and I was trying to learn the detector. I had already played with the small coil with bottle caps my first time out with it, so I'm not digging any bottle caps that might come in at 82. I only had 2 aluminum screw caps, but it may be that there aren't many of them in this park. I too would scoop any 82 or anything coming in above 40 at the beach. Too much chance of missing something good if you didn't. At a park, for me, it's dig the 82's until I get tired to digging them. I say digging, but I was hunting mostly dirt around picnic tables and I was running the gain at 01 so I won't get too much feedback from adjacent targets. I was only having to use my probe and my Pro Pointer to pretty much flick the coins out, not really digging. Who wants to actually "dig" a zinc penny.
simply by a "Best Guess." There are so many variables, such as 1st, exactly what the specific target is. Then 2nd, the target's position or orientation in the ground, followed by things like: How long has it been buried? Is there any other target close to it to mask a 'proper' TID response? What is the ground mineral make-up? Is the ground dry, damp, or wet, and is that ground condition uniform all the way from surface to the target? What detector is used? Which search coil is used [size=small](size and type)[/size]? Was the search coil swept across the target with the center-axis of the coil? Was the sweep speed a proper, functional rate, or was it too slow or too fast for the detector design? And .... the list could go on.
We didn't have any such thing a visual Target ID, or even the thought that such a design could exist, back when I started metal detecting in March of '65, and all we did was learn how to best tune a metal detector, sweep a search coil, pinpoint a target for recovery ... and learn to listen to the audio response of all the targets, and that, alone, helped us learn to audibly 'classify' a narrow target from a wide target, most ferrous targets from non-ferrous, guesstimate a rough depth of coin-sized targets, etc.
This was before we had such things as "auto-tune" or "Discrimination" or "Ground Balance" and almost fifteen years before we had a choice between TR-Disc. and later motion-based GB-Disc. circuitry designs. Almost twenty years before we had other options like visual Target ID and audible Tone ID, and that came just after we [size=small](in the USA)[/size] got a Zinc Cent about seventeen years after I started having fun, but .... there was a lot out there to be found and every dedicated hobbyist could find a lot of coins. You also could find a lot of other interesting targets along with some less exciting objects we have come to call 'trash' or 'junk.'
Therefore, I learned a long, long time ago that "seeing is believing" and that is translated in the message I have in the signature of every post I make, which is:
Do I use Tone ID and/or visual Target ID numeric read-outs? Yes, but I use them as I feel needed for the site environment, and I use them fort information and assessment, but I do not use them as a "lock-on," or "100% reliable" form of target classification. I use the info as generalities and combine it with my audio interpretations to make a good 'best guess,' then.... I recover the target and take a look. It then goes in my keepers container
or my trash pouch 
, but only after I take a gander at what caused all the excitement in the first place. 
I know a lot of folks spend a lot of extra $$$$ buying detectors that have extra switches and touchpads and adjustment functions, and some with multiple, and sometimes colorful, TID displays and numeric read-outs that are promoted as being able to more accurately identify a located target. Phooey! Not only do I have my Nail Board Performance Test to help test a detector, coil and Discrimination ability to reject iron nails and respond to a coin that is centered, but I also have Monte's Test Tube that I use as a teaching tool. For those who like to pit their skills, their detectors functions, and take a chance ...they can even pay a $50 'entry fee' to challenge the Test Tube targets and "display their skills" of target identification.
There are 50 targets, all placed in identical white plastic pill bottle caps and numbered '1' to '50.' I can lay these fifty test samples on top of the ground, and in rough numeric order with the number facing upwards, and for only a $10 'entry fee' they can play "Detecting Blackjack" and take their pick of one of three 'games' to play. To hit the Blackjack of '21' exactly, they can go after:
Group 21-A.. To identify the 16 US Coins, 4 Foreign Coins and 1 aluminum Trade Token.
Group 21-B.. To identify the 13 "Trash" Targets, 5 Gold Jewelry items, 2 Sterling Silver Jewelry items and 1 Costume Ring.
Group 21-C.. To identify the 13 Trash Targets and 8 Artifacts [size=small](4 buckles/fasteners, 3 metal buttons and an 'S' disk to seal alcoholic beverage bottles)[/size].
You do not have a paper list of these targets, but the numbers are facing up and while not in exact numerical order, they are close. [size=small](By the way, they can't be a very 'perfect' numeric order because there are so many different makes and models of detector circuitry design and search coils used that you will often get a somewhat different numeric response from one model to another or one brand to another.)[/size] An entrant will have '21' colored poker chips and all they have to do is place each of the '21' poker chips next to the plastic containers with the '21' items on their Blackjack list. Get all '21' targets marked correctly and I will give the paid entrant $200 cash.
Now, if someone would like to help pay for their over-gadgety, expensive metal detector, they can pay a $50 'entry fee' and I will place all '50' Test Tube targets on the ground, but all face down and mixed around and scatted about instead of in single-file. The master-skilled, super-detector operator will also be given a list and description of ALL '50' targets, and '50' numbered poker chips, naturally numbered '1' to '50.' All they have to do is place each numbered poker chip next to the plastic cap with an identical number and match all '50' Test Tube targets. If they do get every one correctly matched up, I will give them a strap of 10- $100 bills. Yep, that's $1000 for a $50 entry fee, if they and their detector/coil can be 100% correct in target identification.
Back to your '82' Target ID read-out question. Most are modern US Zinc cents, but not all. Zinc cents, depending upon all the variables to include how much they have decayed, will respond in the upper '70s' and up to about '82.' Also, '± 82' read-outs have been trade tokens, jewelry items, buttons, early-date Wheat-back cents from about 1909 to about 1920, and most Indian Head cents which generally read similar to, or slightly below, the modern US Zinc cent. There have been other interesting 'keepers' that fall at or close to '82' that make it interesting, but some sites have a goodly number of trash targets that are smaller in size but higher conductive.
When I get any target hit, especially an '82' or something close to that, and if I am Coin Hunting in an urban setting, I also make sure I do the typical sizing-and-shaping to help determine if it is a smaller, coin-sized targets or a larger size, most typically trash such as an aluminum screw cap, etc.
Keep recovering them, but work around and over them for a while to get a better feel and talent for classifying them as a possible Zinc cent or something else.
Monte
We didn't have any such thing a visual Target ID, or even the thought that such a design could exist, back when I started metal detecting in March of '65, and all we did was learn how to best tune a metal detector, sweep a search coil, pinpoint a target for recovery ... and learn to listen to the audio response of all the targets, and that, alone, helped us learn to audibly 'classify' a narrow target from a wide target, most ferrous targets from non-ferrous, guesstimate a rough depth of coin-sized targets, etc.
This was before we had such things as "auto-tune" or "Discrimination" or "Ground Balance" and almost fifteen years before we had a choice between TR-Disc. and later motion-based GB-Disc. circuitry designs. Almost twenty years before we had other options like visual Target ID and audible Tone ID, and that came just after we [size=small](in the USA)[/size] got a Zinc Cent about seventeen years after I started having fun, but .... there was a lot out there to be found and every dedicated hobbyist could find a lot of coins. You also could find a lot of other interesting targets along with some less exciting objects we have come to call 'trash' or 'junk.'
Therefore, I learned a long, long time ago that "seeing is believing" and that is translated in the message I have in the signature of every post I make, which is:
"Your EYES ... the only 100% accurate form of Discrimination!"
Do I use Tone ID and/or visual Target ID numeric read-outs? Yes, but I use them as I feel needed for the site environment, and I use them fort information and assessment, but I do not use them as a "lock-on," or "100% reliable" form of target classification. I use the info as generalities and combine it with my audio interpretations to make a good 'best guess,' then.... I recover the target and take a look. It then goes in my keepers container
or my trash pouch , but only after I take a gander at what caused all the excitement in the first place. I know a lot of folks spend a lot of extra $$$$ buying detectors that have extra switches and touchpads and adjustment functions, and some with multiple, and sometimes colorful, TID displays and numeric read-outs that are promoted as being able to more accurately identify a located target. Phooey! Not only do I have my Nail Board Performance Test to help test a detector, coil and Discrimination ability to reject iron nails and respond to a coin that is centered, but I also have Monte's Test Tube that I use as a teaching tool. For those who like to pit their skills, their detectors functions, and take a chance ...they can even pay a $50 'entry fee' to challenge the Test Tube targets and "display their skills" of target identification.
There are 50 targets, all placed in identical white plastic pill bottle caps and numbered '1' to '50.' I can lay these fifty test samples on top of the ground, and in rough numeric order with the number facing upwards, and for only a $10 'entry fee' they can play "Detecting Blackjack" and take their pick of one of three 'games' to play. To hit the Blackjack of '21' exactly, they can go after:
Group 21-A.. To identify the 16 US Coins, 4 Foreign Coins and 1 aluminum Trade Token.
Group 21-B.. To identify the 13 "Trash" Targets, 5 Gold Jewelry items, 2 Sterling Silver Jewelry items and 1 Costume Ring.
Group 21-C.. To identify the 13 Trash Targets and 8 Artifacts [size=small](4 buckles/fasteners, 3 metal buttons and an 'S' disk to seal alcoholic beverage bottles)[/size].
You do not have a paper list of these targets, but the numbers are facing up and while not in exact numerical order, they are close. [size=small](By the way, they can't be a very 'perfect' numeric order because there are so many different makes and models of detector circuitry design and search coils used that you will often get a somewhat different numeric response from one model to another or one brand to another.)[/size] An entrant will have '21' colored poker chips and all they have to do is place each of the '21' poker chips next to the plastic containers with the '21' items on their Blackjack list. Get all '21' targets marked correctly and I will give the paid entrant $200 cash.
Now, if someone would like to help pay for their over-gadgety, expensive metal detector, they can pay a $50 'entry fee' and I will place all '50' Test Tube targets on the ground, but all face down and mixed around and scatted about instead of in single-file. The master-skilled, super-detector operator will also be given a list and description of ALL '50' targets, and '50' numbered poker chips, naturally numbered '1' to '50.' All they have to do is place each numbered poker chip next to the plastic cap with an identical number and match all '50' Test Tube targets. If they do get every one correctly matched up, I will give them a strap of 10- $100 bills. Yep, that's $1000 for a $50 entry fee, if they and their detector/coil can be 100% correct in target identification.
Back to your '82' Target ID read-out question. Most are modern US Zinc cents, but not all. Zinc cents, depending upon all the variables to include how much they have decayed, will respond in the upper '70s' and up to about '82.' Also, '± 82' read-outs have been trade tokens, jewelry items, buttons, early-date Wheat-back cents from about 1909 to about 1920, and most Indian Head cents which generally read similar to, or slightly below, the modern US Zinc cent. There have been other interesting 'keepers' that fall at or close to '82' that make it interesting, but some sites have a goodly number of trash targets that are smaller in size but higher conductive.
When I get any target hit, especially an '82' or something close to that, and if I am Coin Hunting in an urban setting, I also make sure I do the typical sizing-and-shaping to help determine if it is a smaller, coin-sized targets or a larger size, most typically trash such as an aluminum screw cap, etc.
Keep recovering them, but work around and over them for a while to get a better feel and talent for classifying them as a possible Zinc cent or something else.
Monte
Sounds like we hunt the same type areas.....;o) That was the only thing I didn't care for on the racer. Too many targets fall into that range. Not good in those real trashy parks. As you know, with some other detectors you can tell the difference between zinc and screw cap most of the time.
Bill_S said:
Exactly Bill S.. I have been in the game for awhile and as you say. I can tell on other machines a Screw cap.. That is why I asked what are others doing to eliminate digging so many of them..
From what I am reading from the masses here is. Mine, and maybe only a few other racers are hitting screw caps in the 82 range..OR I have a hearing problem as suggested by some in PM's.. I was told to get a different set of headphones and that will make a difference.. ???????????? I tried a different set.And ya know what..82 was till predominately Screw caps.. I forgot my GG headphones , so used some cheap set I had in the trunk All 82 screw cap signals still sounded like a good target one would want to dig.. So unless I can find a set that goes ding, ding, and not beep, beep on 82 screw cap targets. I will still be digging them in great quantities. So I am back to the original problem . This Old body can't go up and down that often and still function for a long time in the field..LOL Bad to get old isn't it..
I suppose I can live with the 82 targets as being mostly screw caps in some areas and not dig those targets if that is the predominate target.. I just wondered out loud in my original post what can I do so as "NOT" be hitting those Screw caps so often, or know their in fact a screw cap..
I now see
yikes there is not any way to do that..so I will eliminate a good portion of potential good finds by eliminating 82 targets in trashy parks.. PROBLEM SOLVED !!!!! Thanks everyone..I also started back in the time (1973) when we had no disc and had to re tune all the time because of threshold drift, so we had to learn what good and bad targets sound like before we dug them up. I feel we learned a lot to help us do as well as we do. Those were the years we seen a lot more gold items and we seem more interesting things being found. At this time many like to rely to the targets ID and walk away from some great items, I know I have and try not to very often when I am in a big hurry.
On my 82 ID targets I have dug a lot of trash and have dug some zinc pennies too and other things and those that sound deeper I always want to dig as I know IH pennies and some of the older wheat will read there too, I know I do dig less trash then I did when I first started using the Racer, but still get fooled once in a while and if i have any question on the signal I will want to dig just to see what it is. I do this with my Sovereign as when something sound different than my normal trash I like to see what it is and been rewarded with some great things. I know what trash sounds like and try to dig things that don't sound like trash.
I have not seen the WOW factor with the Racer yet, but keep remembering what Monte said to give it some time and get to know the Racer well and you will do good. I know when I got my Teknetics Mark 1 back in the 80s I hated this detector, but the more I used it the less I hated it and the more I was getting to like it because I was learning more and more about it each time out. The Minelab Sovereign back in 1996 it happened again as it was different and was told to not give up, you know that was something that stuck in my head and something I believe in, so I keep using the Racer every time out and learning more and more and finding thing I like more each time out, maybe see the WOW factor before long.
I think Monte's test would open a lot of peoples eyes with Target ID detectors and would be one I would love to try myself just to see how I would do using my Sovereign and the 180 meter at IDing the targets.
Good Luck and don't give up
Rick
On my 82 ID targets I have dug a lot of trash and have dug some zinc pennies too and other things and those that sound deeper I always want to dig as I know IH pennies and some of the older wheat will read there too, I know I do dig less trash then I did when I first started using the Racer, but still get fooled once in a while and if i have any question on the signal I will want to dig just to see what it is. I do this with my Sovereign as when something sound different than my normal trash I like to see what it is and been rewarded with some great things. I know what trash sounds like and try to dig things that don't sound like trash.
I have not seen the WOW factor with the Racer yet, but keep remembering what Monte said to give it some time and get to know the Racer well and you will do good. I know when I got my Teknetics Mark 1 back in the 80s I hated this detector, but the more I used it the less I hated it and the more I was getting to like it because I was learning more and more about it each time out. The Minelab Sovereign back in 1996 it happened again as it was different and was told to not give up, you know that was something that stuck in my head and something I believe in, so I keep using the Racer every time out and learning more and more and finding thing I like more each time out, maybe see the WOW factor before long.
I think Monte's test would open a lot of peoples eyes with Target ID detectors and would be one I would love to try myself just to see how I would do using my Sovereign and the 180 meter at IDing the targets.
Good Luck and don't give up
Rick
I had only used Minelabs (Safari, Etrac, CTX 3030) - and the first day I used the Racer - I hated it. I had it in 2 tone and it was just a jumble of beeps and grunts to my ears. I thought there might be something wrong with it actually. Then I read some advice on forum posts, and switched to 3 tone. After a few times out I started to understand the language. My Minelabs were great machines and fantastic target ID, but I have just as much fun or more with the Racer. I am really learning to like it. I just had to get to know it. I think a lot of the used ones for sale just after they came out were from people who maybe did not take enough to time get to know it.
Yes I agree that many don't spend the time to get to know their detectors, some think the new detector is going to be the magic wand and find items not there and yet there are some that want the detector to learn how they hunt, not learn the detector and how it works. I have seen this many times on the forums as they want the new detector to work like the old one they had, but yet find more and more accurate ID without learning the new detector.
Another thing I see a lot of is people all over try to set their detectors like a guy across the country does and then say their don't work like this so it must be a defective detector. What works for Monte may not work for me and what I am trying to learn is what will be the best for me by trying different settings so it will probably be quite different or maybe close too and will find out with using it and understanding it.
Rick
Another thing I see a lot of is people all over try to set their detectors like a guy across the country does and then say their don't work like this so it must be a defective detector. What works for Monte may not work for me and what I am trying to learn is what will be the best for me by trying different settings so it will probably be quite different or maybe close too and will find out with using it and understanding it.
Rick